oilfieldDave Loc: From AK live in WA

I was sent here by a person i debate with on facebook. He is demo, i'm repub/libertarian. We don't agree much, but we still have good discussion. He is from NY i'm from AK but live in WA. I think he may have done me a great service sending me here.
Thanks Richard!!

This looks well set up, well run, and also looks like there are plenty of members.

OK, that is it. See ya all in the forum!

Raybear

Im probably a center left person---The great presidents since 1900 have been Teddy Roosevelt-Woodrow Wilson -FDR-IKE -JFK-LBJ (worst and best--civil rights medicare and Viet Nam put him there-Carter--gave us peace--Reagan gave us strength--Clinton--budget surplus----The Worst--easy Hoover-Nixon--Bush/Cheney--All true liars and only for the rich

Raybear

Things I would pass as president
#1 Tax rate @ 50%--Reagans time
#2 Fix any tax loop holes that could be clearly understood and help now
#3 Cut Defense 33% without laying off Soldiers and any Military personel
#4 Pass a law guarenteeing voting rights
#5 Govt home loans to American citizens only @2%
#6 College grants @2% for only Americans
#7 English as the ONLY language
#8 Cut all subsidies 25%
#9 Use soldiers brought back from wars as border patroll
#10 Fix the Health care bill--too much waste
#11 Begin looking at all bills passed in last 20 years that have waste! Drop them that do!
#12 NO MORE OFF SHORE BANK ACCOUNTS ALLOWED
#13 Path to citizenship-have all sign up-those that dont-begin deportation
#14 Welfare and food stamps are fine--But any that recieve and can work MUST work or NO govt MONEY!
#15 No more Govt unions
#16 Clean-up Wall street hedge funders at the top of list
#17 Corps that hire Americans get great taxbreaks--tax rate should be at 50% BUT can be cut by hiring Americans
#18 Fine heavily or even close down those that hire Ilegals
#19 Minimum wage @ $10
#20 Tax rate very very high to those companies outsourcing JOBS
#21--Wipe out Debt to China
#22--Fix climate change
#23 legalize POT and tax it!
#24 Strengthen prochoice laws and all womens rights laws
#25 Term Limit to 12 years for all of Congress

Thats a start!!!!!!!!!
As president I would use the executive order 1000 times if needed --Teddy Roosevelt did!

Raybear

After these 25 laws I would add
#1 No more superpac money for candidates-
#2 Take GOOD poles weekly if needed on new laws and if Americans show 75% approval on these new laws--Pass them thru executive order
#3 Look at term limits for the supreme court justices 20 years might be enough
#4 Protect the retirement and elderly and those programs
#5 Begin to work with states on there budgets
#6 Jail congressmen and lobbyists for breaking any of these laws!
#7 Remove patriot act!
#8 DO NOT close Guantanimo jail in Cuba-clean it up!
#9 Support Isreal more and go after IRAN harder
#10 Jail or deport and freeze bank accounts CEOS and any that break these laws!

Give them all time for these changes--The thing is simple America back to Americans and for Americans!
Take a look at FDRs bill of rights in 1945 2 months before he died--Its all above in my 25 point plan as president!

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

I see you are fairly new here. Me too. I just registered a few minutes ago, and like you, I see so many good opportunities here for discussion/debate.

In discussions, I don't usually get agitated until my opponent resorts to insults, hyperbole, and outright lies. At any of those points I can get rather heated. I'm a Republican turned Libertarian, as of 2010, so we will probably see a lot of things eye to eye.

Happy to have met you!

;-)

Raybear

Actually Im a democrat and thank you for your reply-But I think im a strange Democrat-Ive never like Fienstien-Boxer or definately not Brown and Im from California But the GOP has totally become retarded-Most of the past republicans would not even be in this party today-Teddy Roosevelt-Ike-Reagan even Ford--Ive never been one for a 3rd party--I did vote for Perot though--But its time--Obama at least shows interest in the working man but he just doesnt get anything done--The GOP of today is ran by hate mongers and outright Liars--Rush-Beck-Hannity-ORielly-Palin-Cain-Romney-Rove-Newt=Cantor-Beohnor-McConnell-Ryan-Jeb Bush-Cheney-Rubio-Can there be a group worse than this? Christie and Jon Huntsman are good republicans of today and they have no hope in the Party-The Dems are not very good either but they are together and can just show how bad the GOP is--which is not hard to do- While getting virtually nothing done-So where does that leave us as Americans?--We have liars and Hate mongers on one side and do-nothings on the other! Sorry I just dont see alot of hope here! The Dow hits record highs and the middle class is still shrinking--This is our Govt today! Tell me how to change this!

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

A good start would be to stop voting for Democrats.

Raybear

Vote for who then? The GOP talks about deficits-They dont care about deficits-Bush cuts taxes for the rich down to 13% Romney--We pay 28%- 2 wars on a credit card-The GOP convention had NO serviceman speak and Mccain says he wants 5 more Wars-Let the poor and the middle class fight the wars for the rich so they can steal the money from us and put it into offshore bank accounts--something that was illegal for 200 years-This is real stuff and you want to vote for that?
Note in 1970 I was 20 years old-I worked 48 hrs a week and had 16 units in college (thats a full time student by the way) I made $110 to $150 a week--I basically worked a little bit higher than minimum wage--I had a car an apartment and women (they did not pay anything to me either) Try doing that today! The GOP has been the biggest killer of the middle class and the Unions have been the worst help for them also--Both need to be changed

Raybear

Vote for the GOP right? since 2001 revenues have been cut 50% at least-not counting offshore bank accounts-2 wars on a credit card and a real estate bubble that was shown to be for the rich and the crooks fed by the govt---GOP and Democrats alike--in 2004 Bush ran on 2 main lies--a good economy (based on a real estate bubble) And safety (from 2 fake wars) Guess what HE WON! Why? Kerry was an embicile and most Americans were just plain stupid--Im not all that sure Kerry would have been alot better--But then I still believe that Bush is one of the worst presidents in our history--ever! Again what do we do NOW! I have seen no answers from either party that is working! Its just that the GOP is the worst I have seen in almost 50 years or maybe ever! its like having 10 NIXONS running Congress!

Raybear

I dont get it-We are the ones hurting-we the people are the ones hurting and we are fighting ourselves--The answers are NOT that hard to see-Can you run your household with 50% less money and even higher bills? Costs are up everywhere and everyone is making less money-They say real estate is up---LIES--- most of the buyers are investors NOT working people--So working people are becoming servants--rentors--Real estate has been one of the most crooked busineses in the last 50 years--I know I have been in the middle of it! They brake more laws than any business than I have ever seen--Banks-Lenders of sll kinds-construction (ilegals) Real estate agents-Investors in general--This ONE business can go farther in building our economy that any other business we have in our country if we did it right----Start by giving govt loans @ 2% for working Americans---If they are paying $1200 a month in rent they can pay a mortgage for $1000 a month --heres the catch---NO INVESTORS----And if caught cheating they WILL be jailed and lose there license! start there

Raybear

Here is another possible idea--Right now our Govt can still borrow money at 1%--You tell me what business can borrow money at 1%---none--If I was president I would borrow 10 trillion dollars right now! in 3 months I could sell that money for 2% to Americans-and American companies-thats a 3 to 4 trillion dollar surplus isnt it? Well? We still have the power to do this! Ive had a company for 35 years--I was told ast a young age-The one that PAYS the bills runs the country-business or household-That is true for our leaders in Govt also

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

Raybear,

I want to apologize. It seems you are looking for meaningful debate and I replied in a flippant manner. I'm sorry for doing that.

You've asked a lot of questions and made a lot of points. Please allow me some time to go through everything and I'll get back to you with a better attitude.

Raybear

thats fine
we will see take care--im Ray by the way

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

Hi, Ray! We come at the nation's problems from fairly different viewpoints as I am a pretty strong conservative. I live and vote by a specific philosophy - I break almost everything down into what supports liberty, and what harms liberty or threatens liberty. I am quite interested, stuck on, if you will, individual liberties, all Americans have individual rights within the Bill of Rights and I believe they must be safeguarded at all times and at all costs, because a freedom lost is hardly ever regained. The people most likely to deny our rights are those in government, hence I am not too hep on government programs.

You mentioned legalizing drugs. I"m in favor of that because it falls on the side of individual liberty. I'm opposed to federal government meddling in schools because schools belong to the local level of governments - not the feds. I see what the feds doing as oppressive to individual liberties.

There is so much to discuss and so little time. I feel very strongly about what I feel, but if we, the people, spend the rest of the nation's time arguing with ourselves, we are giving the guilty the cover they need to harm our nation even further.

Do you believe it possible that THE PEOPLE, not political parties, not government officials, could agree on a short list of things we would for the most part feel absolutely necessary and ditto for a short list of things we do NOT want done? If we could do that, it would be a start at solving the problem, and a start to heal from the arrows of our elected officials who sit in DC without a care in the world and spend their days thinking of ways to harm us more than they already have.......both Democrats and Republicans. They are totally responsible for most of the divisiveness in our country, and I resent it!!

Voice of Reason Loc: Earth

Ray,

I've gone through your 25-point list and have some comments and questions:

#1 Tax rate @ 50%--Reagans time

That seems pretty steep. Would that be a flat rate?

#2 Fix any tax loop holes that could be clearly understood and help now

Saying tax loopholes is one thing, but picking which ones is another. What loopholes, specifically would you fix. Do you mean eliminate or create?

#3 Cut Defense 33% without laying off Soldiers and any Military personel

First I don't know if that's even possible, but perhaps you know more about military funding than I do. What percentage of the military budget is currently used to pay personnel?

#4 Pass a law guarenteeing voting rights

We already have that.

#5 Govt home loans to American citizens only @2%

Not a good idea, that's what caused the housing bubble which caused mess we're in now.

#6 College grants @2% for only Americans

That statement makes no sense. Are you talking grants or loans?

#7 English as the ONLY language

I assume OFFICIAL language? You don't really want people arrested for speaking Spanish, do you?

#8 Cut all subsidies 25%

Can you give examples of some of the subsidies you have in mind?

#9 Use soldiers brought back from wars as border patroll

Have you heard of Posse Comitatus?

#10 Fix the Health care bill--too much waste

I'd prefer to eliminate Obamacare.

#11 Begin looking at all bills passed in last 20 years that have waste! Drop them that do!

That would be all of them.

#12 NO MORE OFF SHORE BANK ACCOUNTS ALLOWED

Really? You think the govt has the right to demand what you cannot do with your own money?

#13 Path to citizenship-have all sign up-those that dont-begin deportation

Should those here illegally have preference over those on waiting list trying to come here legally? Would you deport parents here illegally who have children that are citizens?

#14 Welfare and food stamps are fine--But any that recieve and can work MUST work or NO govt MONEY!

I agree with this one, with the exception of those who are disabled and cannot work.

#15 No more Govt unions

Absolutely!

#16 Clean-up Wall street hedge funders at the top of list

What list? Clean up how?

#17 Corps that hire Americans get great taxbreaks--tax rate should be at 50% BUT can be cut by hiring Americans

Huh? I think the corporate tax should be eliminated. It is a hidden tax that corporations pass on to their customers in the form of higher prices. If the corporation is in this country, who else would they hire?

#18 Fine heavily or even close down those that hire Ilegals

Why?

#19 Minimum wage @ $10

Very bad idea IMO. Do you think the minimum wage should be enough to support a family?

#20 Tax rate very very high to those companies outsourcing JOBS

Why? Do private businesses have a social obligation to provide a job to anybody who wants one? Do they have no obligations to their shareholders? Should they be allowed to make a profit?

#21--Wipe out Debt to China

How?

#22--Fix climate change

Done! It was a myth to begin with. Global temperatures haven't risen for the past 16 years.

#23 legalize POT and tax it!

Agreed. What about other drugs?

#24 Strengthen prochoice laws and all womens rights laws

I don't understand? Abortion is either legal or illegal. Right now it's legal, how do you strengthen that?

What other womens' rights laws?

#25 Term Limit to 12 years for all of Congress

Agreed. Actually I'd propose 2 terms.

Thats a start!!!!!!!!!
As president I would use the executive order 1000 times if needed --Teddy Roosevelt did!

I don't think that's a good idea, but if I were president I'd use the veto power a lot.