rumitoid

Yikes, how did you do it? Lol. How to be a long-timer? Don't drink and don't die. (1/17/84; a puppy.)

rumitoid

Just to have a word for it is curious. No philosophy truly embraced the possibility, or if it did, the explanation rendered altruism neutered, not really altruistic at all.

"Selfless!" This is the quintessential quality: without any thought to defend, promote, or reward the self." No subconscious hidden agenda that satisfied psychological needs, desires, or survival. Utterly other-centered and thoroughly disinterested in all aspects of self. Defined that way, does it seem possible? And if not, the NT is a sick joke.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

In response, I ask you just one question. If someone you care about or love unconditionally asks you to do something inconvenient or unpleasant, something you didn't feel like doing, you would do it, wouldn't you? It is a very shallow and meaningless kind of love if you aren't willing to do something inconvenient for the one you love. How much more so should we be willing to perform some occasionally inconvenient tasks that were set before us by our Creator, who assigned those tasks to us for our own good? Furthermore, my God knows everything, has complete understanding, knows my abilities and my faults. Would my God who is perfect, without fault, without malice toward me set me up to fail? Then He would never give me standards that are beyond my ability.

And I have to question your understanding, that of following the law "can not help but diminish or block the natural flow of God's love. " I submit from the Christian point of view the following:

The Messiah was prophesied in the Law. (Time out, for a better understanding of this word. For many Christians, there is a mistranslation and understanding of the word Messiah. To them the term "mashiach" is related to the Hebrew term "moshiah" (savior) because they sound similar, but the similarity is not as strong as it appears to one unfamiliar with Hebrew. The Hebrew word "mashiach" comes from the root Mem-Shin-Chet, which means to paint, smear, or annoint. The word "moshiah" comes from the root Yod-Shin-Ayin, which means to help or save. The only letter these roots have in common is Shin, the most common letter in the Hebrew language. The "m" sound at the beginning of the word moshiah (savior) is a common prefix used to turn a verb into a noun. For example, the verb tzavah (to command) becomes mitzvah (commandment). Saying that "mashiach" is related to "moshiah" is a bit like saying that ring is related to surfing because they both end in "ing.") Moses prophesied of a "prophet from among their brethren" being raised up and that he would be like unto Moses (Deut. 18: 18). The apostle Peter showed this prophecy was fulfilled in Christ (Acts 3: 22, 23). The Hebrew Scriptures prophesied of Messiah’s birth, life, and death (Micah 5: 2; Isa. 53: 1-12). Jesus said of the Hebrew Scriptures, "…they are they which testify of me" (Jn. 5: 39). Therefore the birth of Jesus was part of the covenant with the *Hebrew nation. To go on, the mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It is written that Jesus lived and died under the law. "But when the fullness of the time was come," Paul wrote, "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law…" Again, this references the lost tribes of Israelites. (Gal. 4: 4, 5). The fact Messiah will be no accident. God has planned for the birth and introduction to the world (Dan. 2).

Also consider, in the NKJ version, Jesus recognized the authority of the Law. When asked "what shall I do to inherit eternal life" Jesus replied, "What is written in the law? How readest thou?" (Lk. 10: 25, 26). When the man correctly answered by alluding to the Ten Commandments, Jesus said "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (vs. 27, 28). Jesus recognized the resident authority of the Hebrew scriptures when he quoted them to defeat the Tempter (Matt. 4, 7, 10, Deut. 8: 3; Ps. 91: 11, 12; Deut. 6: 16).

Christ perfectly kept the Law of Moses. Jesus himself claimed to have been obedient to the law under which he lived, the Law of Moses (Jn. 8: 29, 55). In fact, the Israelites were unable to convict Jesus of any transgression of the law (Jn. 8: 46). It is affirmed in the New Testament that Jesus "did no sin" and "was without sin" (I Pet. 2: 22; Heb. 4: 15).

Christ taught others to keep the law. As seen, Jesus recognized the authority of the law in his life and taught others to keep the law (Lk. 10: 25-28).[b] Jesus instructed his disciples to obey the law (Matt. 23: 2, 3). Christ defended the law and severely condemned those who perverted the Hebrew scripture (Mk. 7: 7-13; Matt. 23: 16-22).

In conclusion, God is perfect, just, loving, and knows all things. God, because of his love for his people, would never ask the impossible. I could argue the teachings of Jesus and to whom he came to teach, but I fear that would anger you and make you blindly hostile to engaging in further discussion with me. I do assure you, I have no intent to persuade you in your beliefs or convert you. Do not be jealous or overly concerned with the “the Chosen People.” God chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to God's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

I also send you back to the definition of altruism.
al·tru·ism
[ áltroo ìzzəm ]

1.selflessness: an attitude or way of behaving marked by unselfish concern for the welfare of others
2.belief in acting for others' good: the belief that acting for the benefit of others is right and good

Which part of the definition causes you to believe that altruism is not work? And what part says that it is not "based on personal understanding, intent, and effort"?

rumitoid

[quote=ginnyt]In response, I ask you just one question. If someone you care about or love unconditionally asks you to do something inconvenient or unpleasant, something you didn't feel like doing, you would do it, wouldn't you? It is a very shallow and meaningless kind of love if you aren't willing to do something inconvenient for the one you love. How much more so should we be willing to perform some occasionally inconvenient tasks that were set before us by our Creator, who assigned those tasks to us for our own good? Furthermore, my God knows everything, has complete understanding, knows my abilities and my faults. Would my God who is perfect, without fault, without malice toward me set me up to fail? Then He would never give me standards that are beyond my ability.

And I have to question your understanding, that of following the law "can not help but diminish or block the natural flow of God's love. " I submit from the Christian point of view the following:

The Messiah was prophesied in the Law. (Time out, for a better understanding of this word. For many Christians, there is a mistranslation and understanding of the word Messiah. To them the term "mashiach" is related to the Hebrew term "moshiah" (savior) because they sound similar, but the similarity is not as strong as it appears to one unfamiliar with Hebrew. The Hebrew word "mashiach" comes from the root Mem-Shin-Chet, which means to paint, smear, or annoint. The word "moshiah" comes from the root Yod-Shin-Ayin, which means to help or save. The only letter these roots have in common is Shin, the most common letter in the Hebrew language. The "m" sound at the beginning of the word moshiah (savior) is a common prefix used to turn a verb into a noun. For example, the verb tzavah (to command) becomes mitzvah (commandment). Saying that "mashiach" is related to "moshiah" is a bit like saying that ring is related to surfing because they both end in "ing.") Moses prophesied of a "prophet from among their brethren" being raised up and that he would be like unto Moses (Deut. 18: 18). The apostle Peter showed this prophecy was fulfilled in Christ (Acts 3: 22, 23). The Hebrew Scriptures prophesied of Messiah’s birth, life, and death (Micah 5: 2; Isa. 53: 1-12). Jesus said of the Hebrew Scriptures, "…they are they which testify of me" (Jn. 5: 39). Therefore the birth of Jesus was part of the covenant with the *Hebrew nation. To go on, the mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It is written that Jesus lived and died under the law. "But when the fullness of the time was come," Paul wrote, "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law…" Again, this references the lost tribes of Israelites. (Gal. 4: 4, 5). The fact Messiah will be no accident. God has planned for the birth and introduction to the world (Dan. 2).

Also consider, in the NKJ version, Jesus recognized the authority of the Law. When asked "what shall I do to inherit eternal life" Jesus replied, "What is written in the law? How readest thou?" (Lk. 10: 25, 26). When the man correctly answered by alluding to the Ten Commandments, Jesus said "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live" (vs. 27, 28). Jesus recognized the resident authority of the Hebrew scriptures when he quoted them to defeat the Tempter (Matt. 4, 7, 10, Deut. 8: 3; Ps. 91: 11, 12; Deut. 6: 16).

Christ perfectly kept the Law of Moses. Jesus himself claimed to have been obedient to the law under which he lived, the Law of Moses (Jn. 8: 29, 55). In fact, the Israelites were unable to convict Jesus of any transgression of the law (Jn. 8: 46). It is affirmed in the New Testament that Jesus "did no sin" and "was without sin" (I Pet. 2: 22; Heb. 4: 15).

Christ taught others to keep the law. As seen, Jesus recognized the authority of the law in his life and taught others to keep the law (Lk. 10: 25-28).[b] Jesus instructed his disciples to obey the law (Matt. 23: 2, 3). Christ defended the law and severely condemned those who perverted the Hebrew scripture (Mk. 7: 7-13; Matt. 23: 16-22).

In conclusion, God is perfect, just, loving, and knows all things. God, because of his love for his people, would never ask the impossible. I could argue the teachings of Jesus and to whom he came to teach, but I fear that would anger you and make you blindly hostile to engaging in further discussion with me. I do assure you, I have no intent to persuade you in your beliefs or convert you. Do not be jealous or overly concerned with the “the Chosen People.” God chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to God's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

I also send you back to the definition of altruism.
al·tru·ism
[ áltroo ìzzəm ]

1.selflessness: an attitude or way of behaving marked by unselfish concern for the welfare of others
2.belief in acting for others' good: the belief that acting for the benefit of others is right and good

Which part of the definition causes you to believe that altruism is not work? And what part says that it is not "based on personal understanding, intent, and effort"?[/quote]

You start out with this: "If someone you care about or love unconditionally asks you to do something inconvenient or unpleasant, something you didn't feel like doing, you would do it, wouldn't you?" Automatically, my response is no, I would not do it. Unconditional love is not a free pass. Unconditional love is both seeking and expecting what is best for a person. True love beholds and orders what is best in any circumstance. It depends on what you label "inconvenient."

"How much more so should we be willing to perform some occasionally inconvenient tasks that were set before us by our Creator, who assigned those tasks to us for our own good? Furthermore, my God knows everything, has complete understanding, knows my abilities and my faults. Would my God who is perfect, without fault, without malice toward me set me up to fail? Then He would never give me standards that are beyond my ability."
Yes. It might be perfectly righteous to "fail" and no standards are given: that is part of the ultimate truth.

In my understanding, you come from a basic misunderstanding that seems incapable of appreciating effort beyond intent.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

So your response is that I am so below you, so stupid, so ignorant that I could not possibly understand your position? Okay, that is your belief and understanding. Who am I to say that you are wrong?

Regardless, you have expressed yourself as predicted. I did my best to communicate an alternative way of viewing the subject of being altruistic, and apparently have failed to live to your understanding and definitions. I have no more to say. Good evening.

rumitoid

You did nothing to offer an alternate view but not consciously; almost every point, as I see it, defeated altruism. No matter. You had other topics going.

This is so typical of you. Make up imaginary insults and play the victim. Pathetic and predictable. Go to your elders who said to get away from here permanently. Ask them: "Am I promoting the faith, in the best light?"

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I know that you are trying to anger me, to draw me into your notion on how to interact with those that you do not respect or find common ground of agreement; it will not work. I am not angry with you and your insults are not working. According to kabbalist Rabbi Wolf, expressing anger only develops it, like exercise, and encourages it to grow. One temper tantrum sets the stage for the next one. Anger also put a wedge between God's children and Him.

My opinions are as worthy as your or anyone's opinions. You simply do not understand what I wrote or you may be unwilling to see that I was writing an opinion and not a letter to persuade you from your personal beliefs.

Although you would want me to go away. It simply is not going to happen. Insult me as you feel comforted in doing. Those insults are not a reflection of me or my intelligence, but rather a reflection of you.

rumitoid

It is a true joy to have you back. Seriously! No one can twist the
truth better than you; it is a gift. I was happy you left, even for the absurd and apparently bogus reasons you presented about some affiliation with "elders": then you came back under an alias the same week ("asiseeit") to attack me. (Several of your usual friends alerted me.)

Your type is too vicious and mean-spirited even for OPP. Few here could possibly comprehend how vile you are. I can see it because it was my job to see it.
.

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Thank you for your support. Your approval means so much. I know that you are a true believer, that you have understanding. I say this not because of your support, but because of the many conversations we have shared on religion. We have not always agreed, but you present your views with clarity, sensibility, without scorn or hatred. For that reason, I see you as a true friend of your church, religion and that of myself, family, and of the Jewish people in general.

Recently there has been so much written about Jews and how wrong they are. How imperfect in their intent or worship of God our Father. I fell into the trap of defending not only God and His laws but also Jesus' words and actions. I know that neither require defense, but it is natural to defend those you love. Anyway, I wrote what I believe as true and provided as much as possible from the NKJ version of the bible knowing that many people have stopped studying the Old outside of picking out words or verses to support their claims.

Those anti-Semitic salesmen like the Aryan Nations, and many misinformed Liberal modern day Christians who pitch slanderous hate literature against all Jews are simply doing the devil's work. The worst offenders are those who profess to love God and yet pollute the Name of Christ pretending to be Christians: "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer" and "if a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar" (1 John 3:15; 4:20). Not all of human kind is our brother. The word brother, frato (greek)signifies spiritual kinship.

The frightening fact that some are so consumed with a blind hatred of Jews, espousing quack theories about Khazars, slopping swill about "the Serpent's Seed," and cooking up pseudo racial "science" , coddling up to Israel's terrorist enemies and preferring a perverted "Palestine" over the Promised Land of Israel, aiding and abetting those who would dismember the prophesied Jewish Homeland, proves the existence of an irrational evil entity filled with bitter frustration and wrath!

To uphold, support, and defend Muslims, gay marriage, and all matters of sin are against God. Although Satan hates every human being, he especially hates those descended from Jacob-Israel. He knows they're instrumental in his eventual overthrow. And out of Israel he's targeted the Jews. They've born the brunt of his brutality. Why? Because:

The Jews are representative of all Israel, and they hold the Promised Land in trust for all Twelve Tribes (Rom. 3:2).

The Jews have preserved the Bible (John 4:22), thereby retaining the knowledge of the true God and His Sabbath and Holy Days (and when to properly observe them).

The Jews are LIVING PROOF of God's invincible plan!

Is it not written, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin" (John 8:34).

I do not have all the answers, I do not pretend to know. What I do know is God does not want any people to embrace sin or a sinful lifestyle. God wants each of us to know him, to be loved by him, and take our rightful place near him when the end comes.

dennisimoto Loc: Washington State (West)

Much tougher in my mind to go one day or one week. Those new folks can always say, "Ah what the heck, it's only a week. I'm going to have a beer while I watch the game. I can always start over on Monday." When I see those folks keep coming back I am impressed!