skott Loc: Bama

Democracy means that people vote directly for laws. We have a republic.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

It is what it is & we can call it what we want to call it.

People make up new words all the time.

We just have to be in agreement. Fat chance of that happening.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

Are you purposefully missing the issue? I'm not going to attempt to discuss what is or isn't fair, all I'm trying to do is get those of you who claim the rich control everything to explain why, then, they put themselves in the position of paying most of the taxes. Now, either you can't answer that question, or can't substantiate your allegation that they control everything so you need to resort to misdirection.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

Well they don't control every thing yet. But they are sure working on getting it all.

Flat out are you saying that if you earn $100,000 year you should pay the same amount of taxes as a person who makes 1,000,000 a year.

The whole tax system favors investment income over taxes on wages.

I earn money in more ways than one & I do my own taxes.

Yes I read the rules on taxation.

You seem to want to pass your self off as a person who knows what is going on.

Well I guess it is just a matter of you having money & wanting more & wish not to upset the system that gets you more from those who you feel are rewarding you.

How do you think people have gotten as rich as they have.

The Capitalist systems bottom line is you should get more out than you put in. But that only works for the few.

This is a pretty closed system that is closing out more people every day.

If you are as good as you seem to come across as you think you are. Then I say as I feel about my self. As a person who don't need or want to play with a stacked deck.

Yes no matter how you look at it the deck is stacked. So unless you are one of the few & need the stacked deck to keep what you have I say join the crowd of people that holds the system together. Those that go to work each day for a wage & are carrying the economy on their back.

The middle class that every day is shrinking.

For if this nation is to be saved it will only be saved because it has a strong middle class. So no matter where you are in the standings of wealth it is important that the Middle Class is strong & healthy.

As a nation we can only carry a few truly wealthy people. But we can have most of us enjoy a sound life style.

I don't look for an over night shift in this, but a reversal in the trend. Putting more people in position to enjoy the fruits of what they help provide.

This should come from the private sector, but if that don't work the public sector must do what it can to see that money moves through the system. Increase taxes or increase aid programs to support those that fall through the cracks in the system.

skott Loc: Bama

Is there a real reason, other than paid off politicians, that we cannot have a simple flat tax say 18% or so, with the first $35,00 being tax free per family. Also, no loopholes. It sure would be easy to do taxes.
During the time of Jesus the Roman empire had a progressive tax like we do now, with lots o loopholes.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

"Well they don't control every thing yet. But they are sure working on getting it all."
- So, it is only those who are rich try to control more than they do? Poor people don't try to increase their control of things - even the middle class don't try? Maybe trying then, to you, is what makes someone rich. Try, you get rich - don't try you don't.

"Flat out are you saying that if you earn $100,000 year you should pay the same amount of taxes as a person who makes 1,000,000 a year."
- Flat out, I am not aware of a single person anywhere who would propose that a person making 100k pay the same amount as a person making a million. Perhaps you know of such a person - surely he'd be a rare one.

"The whole tax system favors investment income over taxes on wages."
- That statement is only partially true - and the part that is true is in place for a reason. If one earns capital gains, the tax rate is lower than on earned income, that's true. If one earns dividends, the tax rate is lower than earned income, that's also true. But in either case, one needs to risk the investment - the equities they buy can decrease. Should that happen, would you suggest the person losing the value of that investment get a tax credit, or do you suggest it be only a one way street?

"I earn money in more ways than one & I do my own taxes.

Yes I read the rules on taxation"

- So do I, on both points. So what?

"You seem to want to pass your self off as a person who knows what is going on."

- Wasn't the previous comment your attempt to pass yourself off as a person who knows what is going on? Is it OK for you to so describe yourself yet some kind of bad thing for another to so describe themselves?

"Well I guess it is just a matter of you having money & wanting more & wish not to upset the system that gets you more from those who you feel are rewarding you"

-I have no idea what you're trying to say with that statement. Me, personally, I have more money than I'm likely to spend in my remaining lifetime, and at almost 72 years of age I still work each day. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to do that? Are you suggesting that some government agency decide who has enough money and when they can no longer accumulate any - or perhaps those who choose to work over leisure be forced to do it without compensation?

"How do you think people have gotten as rich as they have"

-Perhaps people get rich by trying, by working harder, by investing instead of consuming what they earn - the list can go on. What are you suggesting, that people not be allowed to attain riches, or that they can only do it is some proscribed manner?

"The Capitalist systems bottom line is you should get more out than you put in. But that only works for the few."

-That system has created more prosperity for more people in more places than any other system I've heard of. Perhaps you can tell us what system you think has or would do better.

"This is a pretty closed system that is closing out more people every day."

-I have no idea how you conclude this, but again ask what system you want.

"If you are as good as you seem to come across as you think you are. Then I say as I feel about my self. As a person who don't need or want to play with a stacked deck"

-Other than the possibility that you are making some kind of attempt at slamming me, I have no idea what this entire section means. Do you suggest that a person with either a different opinion than you - or a question regarding your stated opinion is trying to come across as good? Are you further suggesting that someone is trying to force you to play with a stacked deck? If so, who is doing that to you, and what is the deck stacked with?

"Yes no matter how you look at it the deck is stacked. So unless you are one of the few & need the stacked deck to keep what you have I say join the crowd of people that holds the system together. Those that go to work each day for a wage & are carrying the economy on their back."

-Again, I can make no sense out of this statement, but being as I go to work each and every day I assume I'm complying with your recommendation -

"The middle class that every day is shrinking.

For if this nation is to be saved it will only be saved because it has a strong middle class. So no matter where you are in the standings of wealth it is important that the Middle Class is strong & healthy.

As a nation we can only carry a few truly wealthy people. But we can have most of us enjoy a sound life style.

I don't look for an over night shift in this, but a reversal in the trend. Putting more people in position to enjoy the fruits of what they help provide.

This should come from the private sector, but if that don't work the public sector must do what it can to see that money moves through the system. Increase taxes or increase aid programs to support those that fall through the cracks in the system.[/quote]"

-I have no idea what you consider the "middle class" - I have no idea how you think the situation can be improved unless you mean that we should increase taxes so we can increase aid - in other words, I assume, turn the middle class into government dependents.

I see that you are concerned about the current situation and frustrated about what you project as the future sans some action of some kind by someone. Further, I see you seem to have concluded the root of what you see as the problem is capitalism. In that sense, I'd offer a few considerations that might help with perspective:

- while one can find many faults with our current situation in this country's economy, it is still better for more people than any other country's.

- while one can find many faults with capitalism, it remains the system that has provided prosperity to more people than any other known system.

- before seeking change, try to ascertain what that change would be and find reason to think the results of it would better, not worsen, the situation you seek to improve.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

"

-I have no idea what you consider the "middle class" - I have no idea how you think the situation can be improved unless you mean that we should increase taxes so we can increase aid - in other words, I assume, turn the middle class into government dependents.

I see that you are concerned about the current situation and frustrated about what you project as the future sans some action of some kind by someone. Further, I see you seem to have concluded the root of what you see as the problem is capitalism. In that sense, I'd offer a few considerations that might help with perspective:

- while one can find many faults with our current situation in this country's economy, it is still better for more people than any other country's.

- while one can find many faults with capitalism, it remains the system that has provided prosperity to more people than any other known system.

- before seeking change, try to ascertain what that change would be and find reason to think the results of it would better, not worsen, the situation you seek to improve.[/quote]

I have put various thoughts down. I lay out my views as simply as I can. I have not had a collage education. I lack a large vocabulary on making my points.

If one would look close at us they would find how much we could seem to be alike. A couple of old coots with a couple of bucks set aside & still working in their 70's.

The world we lived in getting to this point has changed.

Much about our system of capitalism is & has been good.
Just it has been good for both of us to get to this point.

Can you be sure that if we were starting all over we would do as well?

I am trying to say that Capitalism as we are seeing is Capitalism that has gone to far & needs to be adjusted.

What we are seeing now is what happens when too much of the wealth ends up in too few hands.



It is not like we have to have a complete new system. But to make some changes.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

What changes? In my view the major reason wealth has accumulated in fewer hands if the growth of crony capitalism - which isn't capitalism at all. Crony capitalism is the outgrowth to government growth. As we all know, power corrupts - the more power in the hands of government officials (elected and otherwise) the more they have to sell and the more power, then wealth, narrowly accumulates. To me, reversing government growth is the real way to restore competition and thereby a more healthy wealth distribution.