robby1

We follow Cain because we have a sin nature. With a sin nature we were born with we follow that nature. That is why we need Salvation.

rumitoid

You do not know my views.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Robby,

Thank you for your comment. I think that I understand what you intended rather than what you wrote. And as I sit here, I am trying hard to figure out a way of saying this without coming off as a jerk. Many people think of themselves as Christians, or Christ-like, they read the New Testament and work hard in their pursuit of acceptance in the eyes of God. They think that they can be "saved" by being submerged in water and go through the motions of ritual. I am not saying that they will or will not be saved, what I am about to say will strike you as wrong and it may go against everything you have learned from your holey men. You may think that the laws given to Moses pertain to you and you struggle to live to those standards. And with Jesus, you try hard to follow each of his teachings and you pray hard, kneeling in front of a cross and you drink the wine and eat a wafer and confess your sins. With the exception of praying to a cross, I see absolutely no harm in these activities. To strive to follow God's laws is admirable.

The fact of the matter, your judgment will be different than how the Hebrew, Israelite, or a more common name Jew will be judged. The laws given to Moses was for the Jewish people, not for other nations or races. But, laws for a handful of people. Indeed Jesus Christ was sent to the tribes of Israel to teach and to bring them back to the one true God. He even gave specific directions to his apostles to go out to the tribes of Israel and teach, bring the lost sheep back into the fold. I draw this from two distinct verses of the New Testament. This command by Jesus to his apostles reads as follows: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles (the correct translation would be not into the land of those that did not receive the law or the nation of those that did not or the people of the land that did not), and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

This command of Jesus is often ignored from our modern pulpits, even though a "double witness" exists in Matthew 15:24, in the conversation between the Jesus and a Canaanite woman. Here we read these key words again: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

I am not saying that God is uninterested in the non-Jew, I am saying that we are held to a different standard. We will be judged by our actions, thoughts, and works.

When I speak of following Cain, who was the first born of Eve a direct creation of God the first of the nation that God had an agreement or covenant, well he was the first human to deceive people. Why did God single out the follows of Cain to be eliminated, shunned, and peace was never to be offered to them? Why then were the Canaanites singled out for such severe treatment? They were cut off to prevent Israel and the rest of the world from being corrupted (Deut. 20:16-18). When a people starts to burn their children in honor of their gods (Lev. 18:21), practice sodomy, bestiality, and all sorts of loathsome vice (Lev. 18:23, 24, 20:3), the land itself begins to "vomit" them out as the body heaves under the load of internal poisons (Lev. 18:25, 27-30). Thus, "objection to the fate of these nations ... is really an objection to the highest manifestation of the grace of God." So, it is needless to point out, if individuals adopt the religions and follow Cain, they become hopeless and excluded from any type of salvation.

I will not go into the misconception that people need to be born again to reach salvation. That is another of those words that was not translated correctly and has caused many that try to be Christ-like to fill their mind full of false hope that they can personally do something to earn a place in heaven. And I will not go into the notion that upon death people will be either sweating in hell or polishing their crowns in heaven. If you find yourself interested, of course I will share the truth with you.

rumitoid

I can see where you might get that impression, but that was far from my intent; it was purposely vague to simply stimulate comments and debate. I did not want people just posting about my thoughts on the matter but opening it up for any thoughts on the question asked, hoping to also avoid personal attacks in exchange for a discussion. That failed from the get.

robby1

I do not get offended by what anyone writes or says about God and the Bible. God said we know everything in part. We all struggle with the word of God. If we knew the Bible like God does then we wouldn't need God. We would think more highly of ourselves than we ought to. It is God who chooses who he will reveal Himself to. Paul was on the road to Damascus and God knocked him off his horse. Paul thought he was doing Gods work but found out he was all wrong. Jesus asked Paul why are you persecuting me. Paul said who are you Lord. God took what Paul new and showed him a better way. That is the way I am looking for. I thank everyone for their input, It is a lot of help.

rumitoid

Perhaps we do agree and perhaps not.

Ginnyt said: "He was the first advocate of self-esteem, pride, and self-assertion. Anger and hard words, insults are the way of Cain and his religion. The attitude that no one will walk over or besmirch imagined honor. When we respond to another that they are vile, worthy of contempt, horrid, stupid, a wing nut, or an asshole; we are following the practice of Cain—not a follower of Christ but the first to be cursed by God."

True followers of Christ, good and decent people the vast majority of the time, do all the things you listed above. They have a serious condition: it is called human. Although what you listed is hardly recommended behavior for a "follower of Christ," of course none of it is an unknown in their life. People make mistakes. Forgiveness is there for an obvious reason.

A true follower of Christ may not easily fall into the behavior you listed, yet they are not immune. To hold a Christian beyond a standard one accepts for him- or herself to consistently live by is hypocrisy. Say a Christian, upright and true in every way for many years to Christ, loses in their advanced years their closest and longest and dearest friend from the age of five--and then is ruthlessly attacked not only personally but against their family and friends. Their game may be off. It is still wrong in acting unkindly or cruelly, in spirit no excuse, yet they are emotional vulnerable--as a human--and not perfect in their response.

robby1

It will be great to finally see Jesus face to face and know the full truth. Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. In this life as long as we are in this sinful flesh we are not free.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I stand correct and thank you for pointing out that we still can not bridge our differences, and that at least one of us will be in consistent disagreement with the other.

Contrary to your statement, I do not hold Christians to any standards. For many reasons. In regards to my post, Modern day Christians have incorporated many of the beliefs of the Canaanites. Let me explain, I did much research into the Modern Day Christians and I found a consistent list of new interpretations of the Bible. Allow me to list:

The Lord's church includes all people who live a good life according to their own religious beliefs. All people can go to heaven as long as they do what they believe is right in the sight of their God.

People should be free to find their own spiritual path, and must not be forced to believe anything or to do anything any church teaches against their will. People should compel themselves to not do hurtful things and to love and do good to others. Individual spiritual growth and freedom go hand in hand.

Spiritual rebirth is a process. The path to spiritual life is one of spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection. Faith, and a life according to one's faith, is a dynamic process of change and growth. Individuals who are growing in the Lord continue to grow forever.

The Bible is the Word of God and can be read on many different levels. There is a deeper symbolic meaning to the stories in the Bible which teaches individuals about their own spiritual lives. Swedenborg calls this deeper meaning the internal sense. For more information about this, read The Language of Parable.

Life after death is real, and the details about that life have been explained in the teaching of Emanuel Swedenborg's book Heaven and Hell. All people who die wake up safe in the afterlife. Those who have made their life heavenly in this world find themselves in a heavenly way of life in the next. Those who have chosen to make their life a hell in this world find this reality waiting for them in the next. People freely choose their eternal destiny. For an introduction to the afterlife, see Life After Death, and to see the similarities between what Swedenborg said about the life after death, and what people are saying today, read Swedenborg and the Near-Death Experience.

The love in marriage is a special gift from the Lord. When spiritual principles are applied not only to one's spiritual growth, but also to the marriage relationship, troubled times can be overcome, and that marriage will grow in friendship, mutual support, and happiness. Genuine marriage does not end with death, but continues to eternity. Read Marriage Love, which describes the blessings of marriage and how they are achieved, and also read Together as One, which shows how marriage and other teachings of the New Church are related and work together as one. This incorporates nontraditional marriages such as between the same sex.

The second coming of Christ does not mean the destruction of all of creation and a fierce judgment on humankind. The second coming is taking place right now, in a new understanding of Jesus Christ, as revealed in the teachings of the Church, and brought to being in our individual and collective lives. This coming of the Lord is the dawn of a new age of genuine Christianity.

Indeed Christianity has gone through many changes, modernization of texts, and are more aware of personal feelings and what is politically correct. I could bore you with the history of your religion, but you are a learned individual who has extensive knowledge of scripture and therefore have an in-depth understanding of the changes. Suffice to say, the faith has worn many robes and adopted the philosophies of informed scholars for more than a thousand years. Among those accepted adaptations are some non-Christian beliefs and assumptions.

I do not think that you were arguing that Cain was the first human to turn his back on God's laws. And I do not think that you were implying that Cain did not established his own religion which morphed into worship of idols, child sacrifice in the name of EL, that is Baal.

I guess your main point is that Christians sin and they atone (ask forgiveness) and then repeat the sin and atone and do it again and again and God will always forgive them because Christians are only human and their lapse or vacillation of following the teaching and not following is not only expected, but is forgiven. Is this what I should have gotten from your comment? If not, please make your response more simplified and resubmit. However, if I read and understand your response correctly, then how do you respond to the following:

Hebrews 10:26-27 ESV :For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."
2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.”
Romans 6:12 ESV "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions."
John 14:15 ESV "“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. "

There are others, but I think you get the drift.

That was not the point of my post. The point I was trying to make is the inclusion of religions and faiths that are not Christ Like. That modern day Christians are actually incorporating into their Christian lives pagan thought and beliefs. Therefore, I agreed with you that Modern Day Christianity is a stumbling block to salvation and Christ. No more than that. No self righteousness, no assertion of deliberate misdoings on the part of anyone. Only generalized information about religion and I expounded on some traits as I see happening on this forum. Not an attack, not a put down, just a point of consideration.

I had expected that my drawing a parallel between Christians and Canaanites would have drawn some discussion with those that are more scholarly than I pointing out the error in my post. Instead, my post was received by you in a different manner. It is admirable of you to defend Christians that fall prey to angered comments, but again that was not the focal point of my post.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I ask your indulgence, I would like to add the following to my last post. It is a new survey on Modern Day Christian attitudes. http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/new-survey-christians-who-support-gay-marriage-ok-with-porn-divorce-premarital-sex-abortion-32250/

Eckasha13 Loc: New York

Wow, pretty harmless comment. People are brutal and punitive. Sheesh!