rumitoid

Consider this in preparation:
He seems to know nothing of the gospels, just as they seem to know nothing of him. Paul threatens, abuses and blusters, appointing himself as an additional apostle. He has no qualms about lying if he thinks that he is doing so for the greater glory of God: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged a sinner?" (Romans 3:7). He also freely admits that he is prepared to become all things to all men in order to achieve his aims (1 Corinthians 9:22-23). His writings are threaded through with repeated assurances that he is telling the truth and attempts to deny implied accusations that he is not. He is known to have been ridiculed by other Christian groups. Some theologians have speculated that Paul was insane. Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) described him as a morbid crank. Whether or not he was, he is by his own admission totally unreliable as a witness.

Paul seems to have known relatively little about the historical Jesus. He does not mention Jesus" place of birth, his parentage, or even when and where he lived. He does not refer to any of Jesus" miracles; neither does he mention any of his parables. There is no mention of Jesus" trial, nor even of the place of the crucifixion. This is probably not too surprising as Paul was writing before the gospels had been set down. He was operating in a vacuum, creating a new religion as his inspiration led him. He was a self-appointed apostle and spent considerable time and effort generating support for his interpretation of Jesus" message. It was Paul who first preached that Jesus was the son of God (Acts 9:20), a claim that in the gospels Jesus had never made for himself. Paul had not met Jesus during his lifetime but claimed to have seen him after the Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:3-8). Such claims were met with scepticism: when Paul came to Jerusalem the disciples did not believe that he was one of their number (Acts 9:26). Educated people have continued to distrust him down the centuries. Thomas Jefferson called him the "first corrupter of the doctines of Jesus"*.
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/bb0_paul.htm

Rose42

There is a bad spirit behind many of your posts. You've purposely misrepresented these scriptures.

You need to examine yourself to see if you're truly in the faith.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Another attack on Paul, as if God is not in control of His written Word. a.k.a., the Bible.

God does not usually select "perfect" people for His use... Not many of them around, only Jesus.

Paul's ministry to the gentiles was directed by Jesus, the risen Christ.

Acts 22:17-23:

"Later, when I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance,
and saw the Lord (Jesus) saying to me, ‘Hurry! Leave Jerusalem quickly, because the people here will not accept your testimony about Me.’
‘Lord,’ I answered, ‘they know very well that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in You.……
And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.’
Then He (Jesus) said to me, ‘Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”
The crowd listened to Paul until he made this statement. Then they lifted up their voices and shouted, “Rid the earth of him! He is not fit to live!”…
As they were shouting and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air,"


Romans 3:7, in the NIV, clarifies what you omit, rumi. The question is hypothetical.

[b] "Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"

Friedrich Nietzsche was a German philosopher who really hated Christianity and morality. Nietzsche managed to contract syphilis at a brothel while he was still in college.

After seeing a horse being whipped in the streets of Turin, Italy, Nietzsche had a mental breakdown that put him in an asylum for the rest of his life. After the horse incident Nietzsche “returned to his boarding house, danced naked” and thought of shooting the Kaiser. Nietzsche began to believe himself to be Jesus, Napoleon, Buddha and other historical figures. Nietzsche’s family threw him into asylum where he died 11 years later at the age of 56.

Being criticized by Nietzsche is a glowing endorsement.

rumitoid

I am not purposely misrepresenting these scriptures; I quoted an article that did so. Instead of focusing on me as possibly having a "bad spirit," you should take it as an opportunity to refute the apostasy.

Forum, defined: "a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." OPP is a forum but many just use it to attack those who see differently from themselves. I put forth something I feel is important to debate, not because I believe it or look to promote it but to challenge those of faith to be able to properly respond to such misconceptions. As iron sharpens iron, in such debates one person sharpens another.

rumitoid

[quote=Zemirah]Another attack on Paul, as if God is not in control of His written Word. a.k.a., the Bible.

God does not usually select "perfect" people for His use... Not many of them around, only Jesus.

Paul's ministry to the gentiles was directed by Jesus, the risen Christ.

Acts 22:17-23:

"Later, when I had returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance,
and saw the Lord (Jesus) saying to me, ‘Hurry! Leave Jerusalem quickly, because the people here will not accept your testimony about Me.’
‘Lord,’ I answered, ‘they know very well that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in You.……
And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.’
Then He (Jesus) said to me, ‘Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”
The crowd listened to Paul until he made this statement. Then they lifted up their voices and shouted, “Rid the earth of him! He is not fit to live!”…
As they were shouting and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air,"


Romans 3:7, in the NIV, clarifies what you omit, rumi. The question is hypothetical.

[b] "Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"

Friedrich Nietzsche was a German philosopher who really hated Christianity and morality. Nietzsche managed to contract syphilis at a brothel while he was still in college.

After seeing a horse being whipped in the streets of Turin, Italy, Nietzsche had a mental breakdown that put him in an asylum for the rest of his life. After the horse incident Nietzsche “returned to his boarding house, danced naked” and thought of shooting the Kaiser. Nietzsche began to believe himself to be Jesus, Napoleon, Buddha and other historical figures. Nietzsche’s family threw him into asylum where he died 11 years later at the age of 56.

Being criticized by Nietzsche is a glowing endorsement.[/quote]

Yours is the response I was hoping for when I created this thread.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Years ago: I spotted the following graffiti on a wall...

"God is dead." --- Nietzsche

and, just below that...

"Nietzsche is dead." --- God

Rose42

I know what a forum is and I stand by what I said. I don’t believe thats why you posted it. You made no mention of why, you just slapped it out there as you have other things - like Elaine Pagels nonsense.

Then after Zemirah’s post it was like - yeah ok.

rumitoid

Throughout my 20s I was thoroughly enthralled with philosophy, read hundreds of books. But it was just the beauty of Thought that captivated me, these brilliant and novel creations of ideas, and not so much what they said. Much like an Art Museum to walk through and admire. The written word for me at the time thrilled me. Yet today I see how dangerous it is this wondrous mind of ours from my own experience. So easy to get lost and out of touch with what is decent and important in life for grand and ephemeral schemes and concepts. Alas, woe is me.

rumitoid

I am sure you know what a "spoiler alert" is. I made no mention why for the obvious reason of shock value. Will they react to me or the thread?

Rose42

Its no shock these beliefs are out there. Its no shock people don’t want to repent and receive the free gift of salvation. Its no shock people twist scripture. Its no shock people claim to be Christians yet deny Christ. Its no shock that there are sites out there like evilbible that set out to prove God is evil, etc, etc. You know this.

What is rather surprising is posts like this that are an attempt to stir the pot and for what? Is this one really hard for you to defend? If you needed help just ask and don’t be coy about it.

Rose42

Friend of mine had that on a bumper sticker.

rumitoid

You have a low opinion of me, giving me my motives for what I say as base and petty, just stir the pot. I would never do that to you or anyone. And what on earth made you think that I needed help other than we all need help?

Rose42

You’re not going to turn this around on me. It gave me no pleasure to say that - just the opposite. I didn’t say you needed help and I don’t have a low opinion of you. Knowing the crap I’ve done in my life and the years wasted rebelling against God there is no way you’re lower than me.

Lately there’s been a bad spirit on the forum with regards to Christianity. I can feel it. Can’t you?

rumitoid

Maybe we could have a pretty good, er, um, that kind of contest about who is lower than whom. Las Vegas has me at 3-to-1 but I will pass for now.

As to a bad spirit on the forum with regards to Christianity. For a while there going back a few months, there seemed to me less overt antagonism and insult by opposing sides, more honest debate. We had the usual trolls doing their thing, yet it seemed a bit milder. However, I might be somewhat to blame for the "bad spirit" you perceived.

For me, discussions on Christianity I see simply as academic. Make sound arguments, present your evidence, and win the day. No harm done and a good time had by all. But I see where that may not be the case, such as my recent threads. Some do not take them as an exercise of reason and study, a classroom debate. I will be more circumspect in the future. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Rose42

I was not referring to you as being ‘the bad spirit’. But I do see one.

I enjoy discussions about Christianity. Sorry I jumped on you that hard.