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Chengdu, China: abuse and police violence after the arrest of 100 Protestant Christians
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Apr 5, 2019 15:03:10   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
When we are persecuted for our Christian faith, we are to count it "pure joy.


"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings. Consider it pure joy, my brothers, when you encounter trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance." (James 1:1-3)


http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Chengdu,-abuse-and-police-violence-after-the-arrest-of-100-Protestant-Christians-45710.html


12/11/2018, 12.50
CHINA

Chengdu, abuse and police violence after the arrest of 100 Protestant Christians

One faithful arrested this morning. The Early Rain Covenant Church, led by Pastor Wang Yi, counts 500 faithful and 300 sympathizers. Despite being an underground church, members evangelize in the streets, have a seminary and a primary school. Wang Yi had criticized the "cult" of Xi Jinping and the new regulations on religious activities. "The persecution is a fair price to pay for the Lord".

Chengdu (AsiaNews) - About 100 Protestant Christians and seminary students were arrested in Chengdu (Sichuan) between 9 and 10 December. Some of the faithful, later released claimed they were "raped and abused" by the policemen who kept them in custody.

Among those arrested are Pastor Wang Yi and his wife Jiang Rong (photo 2), taken away by the police; two others, Guo Hai and his wife, were dragged away from home, leaving their two children alone.

Others arrested include: Jiang Ruolin, Ge Yingfeng, Zhu Hong, Xiao Hongliu, Ye Yin, Zhang Jianqing, Liu Yingxiu, deacon Zhang Guoqing, Elder Su and his wife, Xiao Yingshan and his wife, Song Engquang and his wife, Xiao Baoguang, Zhou Xiaojuan, Liu Daxuan, and Zhou Yong.

Many were arrested at the community headquarters; others were taken from their homes. The arrests continued even today, when Li Yingqiang, who had hidden himself in the first raid and warned the media, was also arrested.

All the arrested belong to the Church of the First Rain of the Alliance, an unofficial domestic Church, which is not recognized by the government, led by Pastor Wang Yi. Unlike many underground Protestant Churches, Early Rain Covenant Church practices its faith in an open way; publishes sermons and online studies; evangelizes on the streets of the city; has a seminary for future pastors and a primary school for 40 children.

The community has about 500 members and 300 sympathizers. It is not new to arrests and raids. Last June their headquarters was closed because the community had wanted to remember the people killed in the Tiananmen massacre with a memorial service. Some of his members were arrested two months ago because they were evangelizing in the street near the Chengdu station.

Although the police did not want to explain the reasons for the arrests, it is very likely that they are the consequence of the application of the new regulations on religious activities that prohibit unsanctioned gatherings. Pastor Wang Yi, described by many as "the most courageous" religious leader in China, has branded the new regulations as a tool to stifle religious freedom.

Recently, Wang Yi had also raised his voice against the "cult of Caesar", after the patriotic associations forced Christians to place - often on the altars - the photo of President Xi Jinping.

Before being arrested, Li Yingqiang declared: "“Even if we are down to our last five, worship and gatherings will still go on because our faith is real…Persecution is a price worth paying for the Lord. We would rather live through it than to hide our faith and we hope more Chinese churches will speak up and stand with us.”

Reply
Apr 5, 2019 15:16:43   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
When we are persecuted for our Christian faith, we are to count it "pure joy.


"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings. Consider it pure joy, my brothers, when you encounter trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance." (James 1:1-3)


http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Chengdu,-abuse-and-police-violence-after-the-arrest-of-100-Protestant-Christians-45710.html


12/11/2018, 12.50
CHINA

Chengdu, abuse and police violence after the arrest of 100 Protestant Christians

One faithful arrested this morning. The Early Rain Covenant Church, led by Pastor Wang Yi, counts 500 faithful and 300 sympathizers. Despite being an underground church, members evangelize in the streets, have a seminary and a primary school. Wang Yi had criticized the "cult" of Xi Jinping and the new regulations on religious activities. "The persecution is a fair price to pay for the Lord".

Chengdu (AsiaNews) - About 100 Protestant Christians and seminary students were arrested in Chengdu (Sichuan) between 9 and 10 December. Some of the faithful, later released claimed they were "raped and abused" by the policemen who kept them in custody.

Among those arrested are Pastor Wang Yi and his wife Jiang Rong (photo 2), taken away by the police; two others, Guo Hai and his wife, were dragged away from home, leaving their two children alone.

Others arrested include: Jiang Ruolin, Ge Yingfeng, Zhu Hong, Xiao Hongliu, Ye Yin, Zhang Jianqing, Liu Yingxiu, deacon Zhang Guoqing, Elder Su and his wife, Xiao Yingshan and his wife, Song Engquang and his wife, Xiao Baoguang, Zhou Xiaojuan, Liu Daxuan, and Zhou Yong.

Many were arrested at the community headquarters; others were taken from their homes. The arrests continued even today, when Li Yingqiang, who had hidden himself in the first raid and warned the media, was also arrested.

All the arrested belong to the Church of the First Rain of the Alliance, an unofficial domestic Church, which is not recognized by the government, led by Pastor Wang Yi. Unlike many underground Protestant Churches, Early Rain Covenant Church practices its faith in an open way; publishes sermons and online studies; evangelizes on the streets of the city; has a seminary for future pastors and a primary school for 40 children.

The community has about 500 members and 300 sympathizers. It is not new to arrests and raids. Last June their headquarters was closed because the community had wanted to remember the people killed in the Tiananmen massacre with a memorial service. Some of his members were arrested two months ago because they were evangelizing in the street near the Chengdu station.

Although the police did not want to explain the reasons for the arrests, it is very likely that they are the consequence of the application of the new regulations on religious activities that prohibit unsanctioned gatherings. Pastor Wang Yi, described by many as "the most courageous" religious leader in China, has branded the new regulations as a tool to stifle religious freedom.

Recently, Wang Yi had also raised his voice against the "cult of Caesar", after the patriotic associations forced Christians to place - often on the altars - the photo of President Xi Jinping.

Before being arrested, Li Yingqiang declared: "“Even if we are down to our last five, worship and gatherings will still go on because our faith is real…Persecution is a price worth paying for the Lord. We would rather live through it than to hide our faith and we hope more Chinese churches will speak up and stand with us.”
When we are persecuted for our Christian faith, we... (show quote)


Very good Zemirah and now I wonder if Canuckus Deploracus will respond to this as well.

Reply
Apr 5, 2019 15:38:08   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Hi bahmer,

It becomes increasingly difficult to deny that which is evident to the entire world... even when turning oneself inside out to look at today's news through "lying eyes."


bahmer wrote:
Very good Zemirah and now I wonder if Canuckus Deploracus will respond to this as well.

Reply
Apr 5, 2019 17:17:10   #
Rose42
 
bahmer wrote:
Very good Zemirah and now I wonder if Canuckus Deploracus will respond to this as well.


It sounds like he is fortunate and lives in a better part of China. Its not all the same.

Reply
Apr 5, 2019 17:43:29   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
I agree, Rose, China is an enormous country.

However, it is all controlled by an atheist, Dictatorship/Communist government who can persecute whomever they please.

It was Canuckus' bland assurance that the news report could not possibly be true, without running an online query regarding an area that is thousands of miles from his location, that created comment.


Canuckus Deploracus wrote:


ROFLMAO...

April Fool's was a few days ago...



Rose42 wrote:
It sounds like he is fortunate and lives in a better part of China. Its not all the same.

Reply
Apr 5, 2019 20:55:39   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
I agree, Rose, China is an enormous country.

However, it is all controlled by an atheist, Dictatorship/Communist government who can persecute whomever they please.

It was Canuckus' bland assurance that the news report could not possibly be true, without running an online query regarding an area that is thousands of miles from his location, that created comment.


How could you possibly know what research I have done concerning these articles...

Early Rain followers are insane... They stand on street corners and scream at people about Hell... And Yeah... That is against the law... Even if you consider it evangelizing...

As is setting up illegal schools and seminaries... Are such allowed in the US? Amazing freedom...

I know that your earlier article concerning kindergarten teachers and Christianity is false... How?
One of my degrees is in Early Childhood Education... The one I am working on now is in Educational Management... I can plug directly into the government sites that publish policies concerning education... And I can read the official versions in Chinese... Your article was bogus...

China is huge... And there are areas where things differ...

On the other hand... Not every action taken by the government is anti-Christian....

Will head over to a Protestant church tomorrow morning and snap some pictures of Xijingping on the alters... They will be really cool because of the unicorns tethered next to them and the fairies floating in a halo above them...

These articles are good fun...

And thank God Churches like Early Rain are shut down

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 06:32:21   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
You know they are insane because they street preach and you are a shrink in your spare time?

You can't know people unless you get to know them. That takes time and walking in their shoes a little bit. Have they ever killed, stolen, or lied? I doubt it but they are fearless.

Yet, you are so sure you are right. Wow, that's a lot of chutzpah/nerve, and you learned all you know over a computer and books. That would be awesome if it wasn't pitiful.

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 06:34:50   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Peewee wrote:
You know they are insane because they street preach and you are a shrink in your spare time?

You can't know people unless you get to know them. That takes time and walking in their shoes a little bit. Have they ever killed, stolen, or lied? I doubt it but they are fearless.

Yet, you are so sure you are right. Wow, that's a lot of chutzpah/nerve, and you learned all you know over a computer and books. That would be awesome if it wasn't pitiful.


Directed at who?

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 06:38:23   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Directed at who?


You.

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 06:51:22   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Peewee wrote:
You know they are insane because they street preach and you are a shrink in your spare time?

You can't know people unless you get to know them. That takes time and walking in their shoes a little bit. Have they ever killed, stolen, or lied? I doubt it but they are fearless.

Yet, you are so sure you are right. Wow, that's a lot of chutzpah/nerve, and you learned all you know over a computer and books. That would be awesome if it wasn't pitiful.


Detecting a little hostility hete Peewee.. Hope I'm wrong... And that you are well...

They don't "street preech".. They pander and mob people at train stations and bus terminals...

In a different thread I mentioned a friend who lived in Chengdu... He has had his experiences with them... They are a nuisance and should not be tolerated...

Nothing at all stopped them from setting up a legitimate church and practicing in peace... They chose to make an idiotic stand and were slapped down for it...

Are you aware of their beliefs? Of what they preached to their followers?

I have learned what I know from books, computers, and individuals... I lived in Sichuan for several months (the province where Chengdu is located) and have numerous colleagues and students from the area... Including Christians...

What is your experience with Christians in China?

Plenty of cults have never stolen or killed or lied... But have abused members and become an issue to society... Setting up illegal schools sounds pretty dangerous to me... Is it a common practice in America? They could apply for a license.. Others have... And homeschooling is an option... They chose to break the law...

Fearless? Fanatics usually are....
Do you admire fanatics?
I do not...


I have reread my response to you...
I apologize if it came across to harshly...
My experiences have left me rather frustrated with much of what is "reported" by certain groups concerning China and Christianity...
One could simply travel here and experience it for oneself...
But that approach is rarely followed...

Once again... Hope you are well...

Your friend, Kyle

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 07:32:22   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Detecting a little hostility hete Peewee.. Hope I'm wrong... And that you are well...

They don't "street preech".. They pander and mob people at train stations and bus terminals...

In a different thread I mentioned a friend who lived in Chengdu... He has had his experiences with them... They are a nuisance and should not be tolerated...

Nothing at all stopped them from setting up a legitimate church and practicing in peace... They chose to make an idiotic stand and were slapped down for it...

Are you aware of their beliefs? Of what they preached to their followers?

I have learned what I know from books, computers, and individuals... I lived in Sichuan for several months (the province where Chengdu is located) and have numerous colleagues and students from the area... Including Christians...

What is your experience with Christians in China?

Plenty of cults have never stolen or killed or lied... But have abused members and become an issue to society... Setting up illegal schools sounds pretty dangerous to me... Is it a common practice in America? They could apply for a license.. Others have... And homeschooling is an option... They chose to break the law...

Fearless? Fanatics usually are....
Do you admire fanatics?
I do not...


I have reread my response to you...
I apologize if it came across to harshly...
My experiences have left me rather frustrated with much of what is "reported" by certain groups concerning China and Christianity...
One could simply travel here and experience it for oneself...
But that approach is rarely followed...

Once again... Hope you are well...

Your friend, Kyle
Detecting a little hostility hete Peewee.. Hope I'... (show quote)


Yes, a wee bit. Had to edit what I first wrote. Not everyone wants to ask permission to live their lives as they choose or have to pay for a permit or license. When you do that the government controls you and you are no more than a slave.

Pandering in China is probably passing out Christian literature and asking for a free will donation. Do you think that is a jailing offense?

Your friend in Chengdu relayed hearsay. Maybe he thinks you're a snitch.

I don't know how familiar you are with the Bible. John the Baptist was a street preacher and his head was cut off and placed on a platter for Salome and her mom.

Judas committed suicide. Eleven of twelve deciples were martyred for street preaching. Jesus was crucified for street preaching. Seems like they are serious about being like Christ to me.

They 'should not be tolerated' is pretty judgemental. Okay, what punishment would you decree? Crucifixion, beheading, razing their church, burning their Bibles, harvesting their organs, or fining them a year's salary?

'Idiotic' irritated me too. All they had to do was submit their God-given rights. And that's just hunky-dory with you and Xi. You do know China produces Fenytenal and did ship it to the USA and it's still smuggled across our southern border.

I'm sorry but I don't know where you stand on Christianity any longer. Are you a New Ager or an atheist?
Because you are unlike any Christian I know. If Texas or the Feds passed a law saying I had to turn in my weapons or register them, then I'm a dead man walking and I couldn't rely on you for support. As long as your comfortable, I'm in danger. Maybe you're uncomfortable because freedom doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does to others.

Hope I wasn't too harsh.

Reply
 
 
Apr 6, 2019 07:45:32   #
Rose42
 
We are told to spread the word. It takes courage to do that on the street especially today.

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 09:18:38   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Hi Peewee...

Quote:
Yes, a wee bit. Had to edit what I first wrote. Not everyone wants to ask permission to live their lives as they choose or have to pay for a permit or license. When you do that the government controls you and you are no more than a slave.


There are no permits or licenses in the US? Sounds chaotic to me... In Canada Churches register with the government.. And we have all sorts of licenses and permits for all kinds of things... Different nations... I'm not an expert on the US... Far from it...

Quote:
Pandering in China is probably passing out Christian literature and asking for a free will donation. Do you think that is a jailing offense?


You can hand out literature concerning the Bible freely on the street in China... Many do... Groups come regularly to the university to hand out fliers and free Bibles... My wife was given a beautiful copy by my friend's mother when we met her on the street... If you are selling anything it requires a license... Once again we have similar laws in Canada... But possibly the US is different... Freer...

Quote:
Your friend in Chengdu relayed hearsay. Maybe he thinks you're a snitch.


My friend responded to my query... He gave an honest answer... I am certainly not a snitch... But I don't approve of certain methods employed by certain groups...

Quote:
I don't know how familiar you are with the Bible. John the Baptist was a street preacher and his head was cut off and placed on a platter for Salome and her mom.

Judas committed suicide. Eleven of twelve deciples were martyred for street preaching. Jesus was crucified for street preaching. Seems like they are serious about being like Christ to me.


I don't recall any of them assualting people (Yes... some groups can become physical and attempt to intimidate people into taking Bibles or making donations)... China has laws against denouncing other religions... One cannot harrass people because of their faith... And I have personally witnessed (and filed complaints) a church here in my city hatrassing Buddhists and Muslims... One can stand on the street and preach all one wishes... But cannot disturb or harrass others while doing so...
Terrible law... I know... Christians should obviously be above it... But it is applied equally to all religions... So there is that....

Quote:
They 'should not be tolerated' is pretty judgemental. Okay, what punishment would you decree? Crucifixion, beheading, razing their church, burning their Bibles, harvesting their organs, or fining them a year's salary?


I think being jailed for a night or two and fined is fine for a first offense... Continued offenses will lead to greater punishments... Harvesting organs... Funny...

Quote:
'Idiotic' irritated me too. All they had to do was submit their God-given rights. And that's just hunky-dory with you and Xi. You do know China produces Fenytenal and did ship it to the USA and it's still smuggled across our southern border.


Not sure what Fenytenol has to do with this conversation... But yes... I am aware... Shocking... America would never engage in such behavior...
God given rights... To do what? They have the same rights as other religious groups over here...

Quote:
I'm sorry but I don't know where you stand on Christianity any longer. Are you a New Ager or an atheist?
Because you are unlike any Christian I know. If Texas or the Feds passed a law saying I had to turn in my weapons or register them, then I'm a dead man walking and I couldn't rely on you for support. As long as your comfortable, I'm in danger. Maybe you're uncomfortable because freedom doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does to others.


Not a New Ager or an Atheist...
Have a most excellent relationship with our Lord....
I do believe that religion and faith should operate within certain guidelines... And be respectful of others..
You couldn't count on me to fight with you over gun laws... Such is true... My apologies...
It's not about comfort... It's about law...

Quote:
Hope I wasn't too harsh.


Not too harsh... No...
Though I don't appreciate being called an athiest ...

We can agree and disagree respectfully... The key is to have respect...

And I can assure you that I greatly respect you...

Your friend, Kyle

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 12:58:18   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
I think you missed you're calling, you should have been a diplomat. I can agree on respect of differences but human nature never allows that to last very long. You do need law but not oppressive law. We in the US have a constitutional republic if we can keep it, but it's in danger. China has an oligarchy, Xi is the leader for life and his advisory board is the elite. Whatever they allow can be taken away just as easily. Works great until you get a narcissistic sociopath as a leader like Nero. China has been conducting a trade war with the US for years and we finally got a leader who is working for the people. Our economy is booming and China's economy is dropping. That couldn't happen if there was more freedom and less central control in China. Which only has an illusion of freedom for now. There are a lot of religions but only two that stands out from the rest and that's Judaism and Christianity. Only one God and one Messiah. Only one book that predicts history in advance. It's exclusive because God is exclusive. Not everyone gets to enter heaven.

You say you are a Christian but you filed a complaint against a Christian church which was trying to save souls from hell. You must think all religions are equal or you're not really too concerned about someone going to hell. You feel safe, so no big deal if others remain unaware of the pit they are headed to. What a guy.

The rest of the differences can be explained by global elites highjacking our government with the Federal Reserve and taking us off the gold standard. Our dollar used to worth a hundred pennies and now it's maybe worth a nickel. And that's why permits, licenses, and taxes are required on personal income. I could go on and on and on. Rome started out as a republic too but failed in the end because of corruption and taking money from one group and giving it to another, mostly themselves. The barter system is what free people do and what we did before the federal income tax came to be.

I mentioned Fenytenal because, besides a trade war, China was poisoning Americans, our pets, selling us inferior steel, faulty microchips, and stealing anything else they could. I guess the oligarchs want just enough religion to keep the people honest while they do all the stealing. The same goes for some of our leaders. The left now wants our guns, infanticide, controlled speech, open borders, more taxes, and perverts.

Okay, eyes are getting tired and I'm getting sleepy. Be well.

Reply
Apr 6, 2019 13:34:47   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Allegiance to Christianity was "against the law" throughout the Roman Empire for most of the first three hundred years of it's existence, Canuckus.

Jesus said, "Don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

In the first few centuries, Christianity grew quickly.
By 100 AD, it had become mostly Gentile and had begun to break from its Jewish origins.
By 200 AD, the faith had permeated most regions of the Roman Empire, though Christians were mostly in the larger urban areas (Gaul, Lyons, Carthage, Rome).
By 325 AD, an estimated 7 million were Christians with as many as 2 million killed for their faith in Christ.

This growth can be attributed to the new faith's ability to cross cultural barriers, its giving new meaning to life for many, the overall transformation of those lives, the social concerns displayed by Christians during the plagues for the sick and the poor, and the power of its doctrine.

News of the resurrection of Christ produced great loyalty among followers.
Christian martyrdom also, created vast interest in and respect for the Christians and increased their numbers.

The Reasons for Persecutions were not that dissimilar from your own stated objections to the behavior of contemporary Chinese Christian worshipers.

After A.D. 50, Christianity was put on the imperial list of "illicit" sects, and after A.D. 64, it was declared illegal, though this did not always result in continual persecution. Christians had many periods of nominal and benign neglect.
Christian refusal to worship or honor other gods was a source of great contention.
Before A.D. 300, Christians were often from the urban poor and lower classes; thus, they were easy prey for those seeking power or goods. However, a sizeable group of educated, middle-class Christians also existed.
Christians were accused of being atheists because of their denial of the other gods and refusal of emperor worship. Thus, they were accused of treason to the state.
They were accused of "secret immoral worship" practices, including cannibalism, incest, and beastalism.
They were also charged as haters of humanity and being irrational in their beliefs. For many provincial governors, Christians were considered social radicals, rather than being persecuted specifically for their faith only.




Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
How could you possibly know what research I have done concerning these articles...

Early Rain followers are insane... They stand on street corners and scream at people about Hell... And Yeah... That is against the law... Even if you consider it evangelizing...

As is setting up illegal schools and seminaries... Are such allowed in the US? Amazing freedom...

I know that your earlier article concerning kindergarten teachers and Christianity is false... How?
One of my degrees is in Early Childhood Education... The one I am working on now is in Educational Management... I can plug directly into the government sites that publish policies concerning education... And I can read the official versions in Chinese... Your article was bogus...

China is huge... And there are areas where things differ...

On the other hand... Not every action taken by the government is anti-Christian....

Will head over to a Protestant church tomorrow morning and snap some pictures of Xijingping on the alters... They will be really cool because of the unicorns tethered next to them and the fairies floating in a halo above them...

These articles are good fun...

And thank God Churches like Early Rain are shut down
How could you possibly know what research I have d... (show quote)

Reply
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