mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Many leftists on OPP insist that CCs aren’t being persecuted and that it’s all in our minds. WTF?! mwdegutis

Arizona Supreme Court to Consider: Can Christian Artists be Jailed for Views?
Michael Foust ~ November 21, 2018
The Arizona Supreme Court Tuesday agreed to hear a case involving two Christian artists who could face fines and jail time if they don’t create artwork celebrating same-sex weddings.

Joanna Duka and Breanna Koski own Brush & Nib Studio and create custom artwork using painting, calligraphy and hand-lettering for weddings and other events. But because of their Christian faith, they won’t make custom artwork celebrating same-sex weddings.

Under a Phoenix ordinance, Duka and Koski could be jailed for up to six months and/or fined $2,500 each day they are in violation if they refuse to design artwork for a same-sex couple who requests wedding announcements or invitations.

They sued in state court seeking to overturn the ordinance, but lost at the court of appeals. They then appealed to the Arizona Supreme Court.

Alliance Defending Freedom is representing the couple.

“Joanna and Breanna gladly serve everyone,” said ADF’s petition to the Arizona Supreme Court. “They ‘will happily sell their pre-made works to anyone …. for any event.”

But for same-sex weddings, the two women will not design custom-made art celebrating the ceremony.

“Their Christian beliefs forbid them from creating ‘custom artwork that conveys messages condoning, supporting, or participating in activities or ideas that violate their religious beliefs,’” the petition said. “For example, they cannot create artwork expressing messages that ‘contradict biblical truth, demean others, endorse racism, (or) incite violence.’”

ADF asserts that the ordinance violates the Arizona Constitution and Arizona’s Free Exercise of Religion Act.

“The government must allow artists to make their own decisions about which messages they will promote,” said ADF senior counsel Jonathan Scruggs. “Joanna and Breanna are happy to design custom art for anyone; they simply object to being forced to pour their heart, soul, imagination, and talent into creating messages that violate their conscience.”

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

Do you think they might like to consider companies like Twitter who restricts conservative views? If we are going to force artists to do art which violates their beliefs, why shouldn't we force social media companies to allow social views and politics which violate the beliefs of the owners????

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Sounds good by me. But the leftists will say something akin to, "Do as I say, not as I do."

woodguru

That's ridiculous...Many artists might be inclined to refuse a job for a dozen reasons. A huge knarly ass biker comes in, he scares the crap out of this guy's sensitive artist sensibilities. He doesn't want to work for this guy, doesn't want anything to do with him, sure as hell doesn't want his money. I'm pretty sure he isn't going to say a thing about not wanting to do a scary biker's work...no, he's going to ask when the wedding is, maybe make a pretense out of checking a schedule or thinking, and he's going to say sorry, there is no way I can hit that deadline, I don't have the time...whatever, it's called diplomacy...

...something that our principled artist with the bigotry toward gays could use some of. How about simply saying he couldn't make the deadline? How about saying you don't want the job, it's not something you are interested in? When pushed for what that's about, say I don't have to give you a reason for turning down a job, let's leave it at that. People get turned down for contracting jobs all the time.

From the gay's perspective, if the "artist" says he's going to have a tough time making the deadline, the last thing they want is to have invitations and stationary hung up, this would cause the mother of all queen meltdowns. Nobody, gay or otherwise, can make an artist do a job they don't want.

The supposed christian should not be using his Christianess as an excuse for not liking gays, this is giving christians a bad name.

Reverse it, a christian wants to celebrate their christian unity, and the invitations say come celebrate our faith. An atheist artist says, this is bullshit, I want nothing to do with your faith ridden butt...

In the first place that will never happen because atheists don't give a damn about whatever people choose to believe, so there isn't any persecution on the scale christians persecute gays (which is what we are talking about). Another thing I will point out is that most christians don't give a damn either, this is about bigotry and using the bible as an excuse. If our "artist" weren't a bigot he'd have opted for the diplomatic approach, or would have gladly done the work figuring gay money spends as well as anyone else's.

I will guarantee you that christians would have a serious problem if any business owner said they preferred not to do business with christians. My guess is that that would be a civil rights violation.

Any artist should be able to get out of any job they do not want without some butt hurt gay taking them to court.

Then again how would it roll for an artist to refuse to do work for a black, saying I don't like to do work for your kind? That obviously would not work well. How about a Muslim in a turban? My religious beliefs make me uncomfortable doing work for you?

Your religious beliefs do not or should not have any bearing on civil rights issues. I sort of come down to honoring a person's religious beliefs by saying you are living in a country where you are free to believe whatever you want, you have the freedom to find another livelihood if you can't serve the public in good faith as pertains to their civil rights.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

You are entitled to use your God-given free will to deny God if you want. You are wrong and will go to hell because of it but you're free nonetheless to do so.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

I guess she was talking to you.

woodguru

And I do not nor will I ever refuse to do work for christians because some are seen to be racist and homophobic bigots that gives christians a bad name

Gatsby

This law requires "forced expression", no different than "forced speech", way to go, Commizona!

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

I doubt you'll be asked to make a cake saying "I hate other races and homos."

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

First of all, these ladies are not in business to serve the public. They have a private business, just like the owner of the Little Red Hen who threw Sara Sanders out for her political affiliations. You guys said she had every right to do that, but these ladies should have to do the work or lie about it, which, I'm sure, also violates their religious beliefs. The LRH owner then called some friends and followed S Sanders to another restaurant and protested loudly outside. I don't believe I saw anything about these 2 ladies planning to protest at the gay wedding. So you tell me...what is the difference here? You can't because there is NO difference. I'd like to see you say that the LRH owner should have been prepared to serve the public in good faith. Should the LRH owner find another livelihood because she DID NOT serve the public in good faith?

woodguru

What I'm saying is that you can't force someone to do work, or a job they don't want. They can charge double and say take it or leave it, they can miss the deadline, they can simply say they cannot make the deadline in the first place...you simply can't make someone take a job they don't want.

It's an idiotic lawsuit, and it's idiotic that the "christian" doesn't have enough common sense to figure out how to duck out of doing it without making it about gays.

From the other perspective it's an idiotic lawsuit, if someone doesn't want to do your work find someone else, leave one star feedback on all the social media sites that says they refuse to do business with gays. An incredible number of non gay people will refuse to do business with them, losing forty percent of your business can be a business killer.

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

It's not a question of being idiotic, it's a constitutional question. If the Little Red Hen owner has the right to refuse to sell her regular everyday food to Sara Sanders, just because she works for the sitting president, then why don't these 2 ladies have the right to refuse to sell their 'creative' work ( not their general merchandise) to a gay couple because it prohibits them from exercising their religious belief, which is guaranteed them by the constitution?
The only difference is the LRH owner didn't refuse to sell Sara S. a Chateaubriand, which would be a specialty, but just her regular food, while the 2 ladies would sell anything in their shop to the gay couple, just not their specialty. The only difference is that the LRH is guilty of REAL discrimination. The gay couple is guilty of targeting Christians which is profiling, and is also discrimination. I wonder, did the gay couple just wander in, or did they plan this escapade?
We have yet to hear of a gay couple suing an Islamic store owner for the same reason.
The REAL question here, is that if ANY store owner has the right to refuse business to ANYONE for ANY reason, then why don't ALL store owner's have the same right? That makes it a constitutional issue. If these ladies can be sued, then the DA should have brought charges up against the LRH owner.
You tell me if Arizona judges are conservative or liberal, and I'll tell you the outcome right now.

woodguru

You make the point I was trying to make, that they could leave the frigging religion out of it and just turn down the job. Nobody can tell someone in business for themselves that they have to take a job. You can turn down a job for virtually any reason, so why make it about religion and being gay? Just stay the hell away from that, it's just stupid to list that as a reason.

Do you understand that using religion and an objection to sexual preferences as a defense the judge has his hands tied to complicated civil rights issues? Can you imagine a case being litigated where these gay people tried to sue because the person said they were busy and couldn't make the deadline so they were turned down? Of course not, the judge would slap them around for being so stupid. All I can say is that this "christian" is so wrapped up in his objection to gays that his common sense can't prevail, he finds it necessary to make a point against gays. Well,these gays find it necessary to make a point about bigots.

Note to christians, keep it to yourself, if you are against gays you can use any reason you want to turn down a job.

Note to gays, it's their right to refuse to do a job for you, go on Yelp and other business social media and trash them for refusing to do business with gays, they will notice an obvious reduction in their income...find another wedding planner or artist, gays are better at it anyway. Stop wasting the court's time with your idiotic butt hurt rejection of yourself.

Red Onion Rip Loc: Oklahoma

Why didn't the 'same sex' couple go to someone in the LGBTQ community who does wedding invitations? I'll tell you why, it's the same as it was with the bakers in Seattle and Denver. They seek out Christian companies knowing full well they will be turned down and then can take them to court. It's all about the LGBTQ agenda and forcing that agenda on everyone else.

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

Let's not ignore the point of the 2 cases...the Little Red Hen and these 2 ladies. The owner of the LRH didn't HAVE to say that she was too busy, she just told the truth that Sara S. wasn't welcome there, so why should these ladies HAVE to lie which WE, as Christians, are told not to do. Read it again...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech. That's 3 protected rights, right there. These women were free to choose their religion, BUT are being denied the right to freely practice it, AND are being denied the right to tell the truth about it.
Woodguru, you're saying leave religion out of it, but the First Amendment protects us from having to do that as in "the free exercise thereof". And if we AND those 2 ladies have to do that, then why didn't the LRH owner have to do the same thing? I know...Sara S. didn't bring suit but I wish she had. The local DA should have seen it as a violation of Sara S.'s rights and brought suit. While there IS a protection for freedom of religion in the constitution, I can't find anywhere where sexual freedom is protected, or that violating rights on the grounds of politics is protected.
Ads I said before, why aren't these gay people suing Muslim shop owners? That would be a real paradox, wouldn't it? The judge CAN'T rule against gay people...and the judge CAN'T rule against Islam...what's to do? Why don't we see that happening? Well...I'll tell you. The feds and liberals ( no offense intended) have been chipping away at Christianity since around the mid 60's, at least in my experience. Our most detestable thing was prayer, but I don't see ANYBODY taking a Muslim to court for public prayer, anywhere, anytime. That's proof enough to me, right there, to say it's a war on Christianity, pure and simple.