aquila

I am serious. Really. I came here because I really don't understand and I want to.

So please explain in complete sentences, without sound bites and demonization and name-calling why it is a virtue worthy of carrying guns to support. I read about this fellow. I don't know him or anything about him. But I read he doesn't pay rent for twenty years and now the landlord comes to appropriate his property in lieu of that rent.

I am trying to understand. Once I was a landlord for a short time by default and this couple was behind a couple of months. I remember that by law in the state I was in that I could have taken the guys motorcycle and I would have loved to have it but I was not going to do that to him. He was a good guy who got in trouble and in a few months got out of it and I wasn't going to do that to him.

But this guy does this (is it not called fraud) for twenty years and when the landlord shows up a lot of people with guns show up to take his side.

Someone please explain.

Thanks

Jim

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

Could it have been because the government was the landlord?

astrolite

Well, Maybe this story will explain? Here in Fla. we have con men from every state and foreign country. After the housing boom and bust, they were all trying to get in on the bank's scams! The bank foreclosed on your house, then the scammer advertised it for rent! Homeless people paid up front, cash, security deposit, first and last months rent, and electric deposit, then moved in! Then found out that the scammer didn't own the house! Even in some cases the Cuban scammers sold the house, while the owners still owned the house, the courts upheld the fake sale and told the scammed owners that they had to find the Cuban scammers and "Sue" them! These are long time professional scammers! The Bundys have owned those grazing rights over a hundred years (like the ---In NYC own the water rights on your property) then the leftists get the idea that all they have to do is declare it "GOVERNMENT LAND". And it is??? More proof that the left has eliminated private property rights! But they still want development rights reserved without paying for them) Something apartment renters will never understand. But our ancestors put in the constitution! And successive democrat administrations have managed to eliminate!

Winter Solstice Loc: Salt Lake City

The Federal Government here portrays itself to be the landlord. In fact, when A State is formed, the Federal Government is supposed to give up its rights to ownership of lands in that State. In this case, the "Fraud" paid grazing fees to the County for years, them, when the County stopped accepting these fees, he was left with no one to pay.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

In spite of all the BS you will see from the right-wing nuts on the forum, the rancher Bundy is nothing but a common thief, for 20 years he has stolen from You, me and all the taxpayers and owes at least 300 thousand dollars (by his count) or over a million by our count. He belongs in jail.

I can only think that many who post on this forum do not pay their taxes as they should by law and conscious, as they do no seem to mind being ripped off by this criminal.

astrolite

I seem to remember that almost every radical liberal Obama appointed as czars owed millions to the IRS, can you tell me why they wern't in jail? Like conservatives would be? The proof is out, the leftists have subverted almost all the government bureaucracys. Most of the tax cheats are liberals! As they don't believe in obeying any law! They think they can just lie their way out!

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

This post is about Bundy, don`t divert..

astrolite

I would say "your conscience is bothering you" but liberals have NO CONSCIENCE. You think Bundy is a criminal for paying his taxes to the state, but not to another federal bureaucracy that has a very tenuous claim anyway? But you think that it is OK for any LIBERAL to refuse to pay taxes? You don't want to discuss that?

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

You are completely wrong. Bundy crime is not about tax. Both decisions he was found guilty of were about stealing from Me and other tax payers. You must not pay taxes or you would have some concern about this theft.

You wish to compare his apples to someone else oranges. That does not work. He is a criminal. Bundy has been stealing for 20 yrs. By his own estimate, a total of 300 thousand dollars. Like all crooks, that is no doubt very much on the light side, the million dollar figures are surely closer.

Serenity54321

Jim:

The argument is over land, and a turtle. Bundy's family owned the land for over 100 years, however the EPA discovered there was an endangered turtle living on that land. So, the Feds took over the land and started charging Bundy to graze his cattle there. This was in order to protect the turtle.

Bundy refused to pay the grazing fee because he refused to acknowledge that the land that was once his now belonged to the fed.

So those on Bundys side insist he has done nothing wrong, and those on the other side insist he is a tax evader. That's the crux of the story.

astrolite

You pay taxes?? I didn't think liberals paid taxes! But I pay too much in taxes already, and your government donates a lot of my taxes to environmental groups that are decidedly liberal. Therefore by your logic, you have been stealing from me! I would like it back, as I'm broke after paying all of my taxes this year. Which of course went to liberal environmental groups and democrat donors! Now the eco-wackos are trying again to steal my home and give it to more eco-wackos! Are you behind that too? Uh Oh, I'm beginning to think like liberals ......

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Bundy nor his family never owned the land. They paid grazing rights for about 140 yrs. In the 1990s changes where made in the availability of grazing. Bundy and many other ranchers agreed to remove cattle from the range. All the other ranchers complied and removed their cattle. Bundy did not. He has kept cattle on the public land for 20 plus years. He owe us, that is you, me and other taxpayers between 300 thousand and a couple million dollars. After 2 decades, two different judges ruled that as bundy had be stealing grazing rights for 20 yrs, the landowner, you and I had the right to have those cattle removed due to lack of payment by Bundy. Who for 20 yrs put the profit in his pocket and did not pay you and I.

That is what the judgement is about, cattle grazing without permission on public land.

The land is also a tortoise refuge, that has nothing at all to do with the violation.

Reid may or may not be involved in a scheme on some nearby land. That has nothing to do with Bundy and his illegal grazing.

Bundy is a crook, he should go to jail. He stole from all of us who pay taxes.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

You cheap bastard, claim to give a rats ass about our country and bitch about paying what you owe. You and the rat hole state you live in reap the lions share of what we, the fine liberals who care about our nation and our laws along with the rights and well being of our fellow citizes, pay the bulk of taxes while you and your fellow whiners grab the cream and never stop complaining of plots and "no fair, I have to pay tax", you want all the good that an organized govt. provides for you but cry in your beer when you need to pay a bit for it.

You should not cry so hard about the eco- movement, with good hard work they may be able to convert the dust beneath your feet back to soil which can grow your grass.
Or provide shelter for your opossum lunch.

And Yes, I pay taxes, a damn bunch of them, I don't cheat but pay my due. I resent that any of it goes to you kind and group you cling to.

aquila

Thank you for writing. I have been trying to understand the whole issue but most posts do nothing but send sound bites and demonizing drivel. What this probably means is that they have no idea and just do this rather than to try and learn something.

Thanks

jim

Serenity54321

You're welcome. I may have been inaccurate on whether or not Bundy originally owned the land, or if simply the laws were changed, but in any case changes were made on Bundy's family by the government and he wouldn't play along.

Those for him say he is patriot who is standing up against a government overrunning its people, those against him say he is a liar and a crook.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.