Manning345 Loc: Richmond, Virginia

The Best Things in Life are Free!
For a year or so we have been treated to the concept of Democratic Socialism from the progressive left politicos, especially by Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez.
It appears that the main thrust of this movement is to buy off the young and old voters with freebees and easy pickings:
Free Healthcare
Free College
Easy Universal Job Guarantee
Easy Infrastructure Overhaul
Easy 100% Renewable Green Energy
Soon to follow are, undoubtedly:
Free Housing
Free Food
Free Clothing
Free Entertainment
Free Insurances
Free Vacations
Open Borders
Paying for this extravaganza is by taxing the rich...really?

There are no realistic guidelines as to how these goals are to be paid for and managed, and the term Democratic is simply a come-on to soften the real meaning of Socialism for the American public.

The inevitable result of voting this nonsense into being must be to find ways to pay for the largess by harnessing the private sector business world to provide substantially more tax revenues. As the years go by, the taxation will increase to the point where the government has to take over each of the financially impoverished businesses and then revive them, which in the end accomplishes the goal of full Socialism, that is, to own the means of production and distribution of goods and services, planning and controlling the economy, and dictating the distribution of money and access to goods by the general public.

Downstream from this contretemps, sliding into full Communism is relatively straightforward. Socialism has always been seen as a waypoint between Capitalism and Communism: All the best things are free and easy for the Elite who run the show, and the military that keep things in order. Then comes the rest of us that look forevermore like slaves to the government Elite. This is hog heaven for the Elite as they have the reins on power and money to do pretty much as they want to do. We peons will struggle to get by.

The last step in this macabre dance is the New World Order (NWO), or world Communist government, and it would not support freedom and liberty for all!
Obviously, we must not let this foot in the door, or...

There went the American Dream!

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!!

Manning345 Loc: Richmond, Virginia

You bet your bippy it isn't!!!!

saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina

Manning345, Thank you for demonstrating an example of gross exaggeration. Although I am not a socialist, by any definition of the word, I don't think your post represents current thinking of democratic socialists. I guess the goals, and definition of democratic socialism differs with the person that you talk with, but this is what I think they have in common:government run health care, universal higher education for those that qualify, a willingness to give up power when defeated in democratic elections, ending long prison sentences for non violent crimes, ending anti labor legislation and court decisions , a progressive tax system, with emphasis on higher taxation for the wealthy, uncontested right of women to control their reproduction, ( abortion ), a reworked social security system guaranteeing that persons over a certain age get enough of money for a decent retirement, a minimum wage reflecting the right of workers to earn a living wage, re education for workers whose trade has become obsolete, example Coal mining, strong environmental laws.
Other liberals and socialists might add a few more, but this is the basic tenants of democratic socialism as I see it.

Manning345 Loc: Richmond, Virginia

The basic concept I used and you posted emphasize FREE stuff, like healthcare, education, and reeducation, and then, greatly increased taxation. I used Bernie Sander's ideas generally, plus the trend to more and more from government for free. I will certainly add minimum wage--more free money for the same work--reworking SS to give more money beyond what the SS legislation was intended to do, hence more free money, and strong environmental laws that cost more money to implement.

Thus, with these added requirements, taxation would have to be raised substantially, with some bad consequences for smaller businesses for taxation and wage increases, and price hikes from big businesses to cover their new taxation and wage costs. The trend towards real socialism is embedded in your approach, just as in my post, and it is driven by the need for more and more revenue to cover the freebees and hikes inherent in the idea.

A further problem is that as the population grows over time, so do the needs for more freebees and hikes, and yet more taxation until small businesses are killed and big businesses are priced out of the markets, both here and abroad. Government takes over and eventually we have real socialism--by necessity. This trend with your additions reminds me of the Obama era where we couldn't manage over 2% growth in GDP, which is insufficient to cope with entitlements, the interest on the national debt, and discretionary spending would be impossible.

At that point, we enter the second group of freebees I listed, and our government takes on the Elitism/military/peon approach, and on to Communism.

Anigav6969

We already live in a Social Democracy......40% of the Country are on Gov't healthcare as of right now....some believe we should have medicare for all....kinda like all of Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, etc....and education for all of our youth is an investment in our future.....after that, I think it's about housing the poor ...etc....they have some interesting points

Chocura750

During the glorious 1950s the highest tax rate was 90%. Economic growth was best of the century. The greedy rich didn't own everything as they do today. If the young support socialism its because predatory capitalism has deprived them of a way of life with a prosperous future.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

That's a little misleading. Tax deductions were such that the effective tax rate became more in line with what the tax rates are today.

Anigav6969

From Bloomberg :

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

The IRS "reckoned?" The IRS doesn't "reckon." Your "source" sucks!

And by the way, you said on NUMEROUS occasions before the 2016 presidential election you would leave this site for good if Trump won. Guess what...Trump won and you're still here you lying liar!

Anigav6969

Yep...I'm back....I welched.....I figured you missed me.

Now Bloomberg is a bad source ???? Jeez.....nothing but FOX I guess for you..

Bottom line, your claim was false...even with the Effective Rate...taxes were higher for the wealthy back in those years.....you lied ....lying liar !!

Manning345 Loc: Richmond, Virginia

I haven't the time to contrast Democratic Socialism with Social Democracy, but there is a significant difference.

While I am all for education, health, housing the poor, and a host of other additions to our entitlement structure, my current concern is how we are not coping with the national debt. When the debt reaches about $23 Trillion, it has been calculated that under the current GDP and tax code, our revenues will only pay for the current set of entitlements and the interest on the debt at that time. There will be no money for anything else. We would have to borrow more money simply to run the government, and most likely at an interest rate much higher than now.

That is ruination for the nation. Were we to have sustained growth of the GDP of over 5%, it would be possible to start retiring the debt in an orderly fashion. The problem with that is our tax and spend nature, where we (congress, especially a democratically controlled one) see a surplus and immediately allocate it to goodies, and not reducing the debt. This process ultimately leads to chaos financially for the nation. I am reminded of the situation after the Vietnam war, where the notional savings from reduced military spending were reallocated to goodies before they were realized.

So all of the new goodies, such as free healthcare, free education through college, and any other nice-to-haves simply should not be afforded now, and cannot be afforded for very long, before we go under financially. That is, until our economy has sufficient continued growth to allow some changes, and we are willing to raise taxes substantially, which seems to occur mostly in a democratic era. One caveat to this is the willingness of other nations to loan us money, despite the deficit spending we have, which, as I said earlier, would probably be at significantly higher interest rates. In which case we would be digging ourselves ever deeper in the hole...

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

No I didn't lie. I was relying on my memory which may have been faulty. You on the other hand "say" it is from Bloomberg with no proof. And you call me a lying liar. You are and always have been a joke. Why don't you stay away like you promised? You can't because you're a lying liar. How can anybody believe anything you say. THEY CAN'T!

Anigav6969

Jeez...you're wound tight ...very easily triggered....I think you'll be okay with me here....or maybe not

And yes...your memory is faulty....anyone can google " effective tax rates " for whatever year you like....try it sometime.....and you were the one that made a claim that the effective tax rate was the same In the 50's as it is today for the wealthy......show your sources

Anigav6969

It's nice to see someone finally talk about the National Debt here....it was such a big deal under President Obama....now all of a sudden Conservatives don't seem to care....
It's a shame that the poor and the Middle Class have to pay for the ridiculous spending of our government. And the latest tax break didn't help any...
My main point was that we live in a Social Democracy at present....so, for some to freak out at the word " Socialism " is silly......we are living in it....not pure Socialism ....but a combination