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Today
Jun 3, 2018 23:37:05 #
Since you have expressed your receptiveness to entertaining questions...
I question the flat tax, Manning, out of concern for the young families who, two days before payday, might walk up to the counter of a grocery store with just enough money to purchase milk, bread, peanut and jelly, and perhaps a few cans of Campbell's soup for their children, and find they are $2.00 short because food is now taxed.
Those at the bottom of the totem pole would be severely disadvantaged, would they not?
That may be technologically "fair," - it may even be theoretically "just," but is it humane?
Is there a way to impose a sliding scale onto a flat tax, and retain it's flatness? - or does that destroy the complete premise/concept?
I question the flat tax, Manning, out of concern for the young families who, two days before payday, might walk up to the counter of a grocery store with just enough money to purchase milk, bread, peanut and jelly, and perhaps a few cans of Campbell's soup for their children, and find they are $2.00 short because food is now taxed.
Those at the bottom of the totem pole would be severely disadvantaged, would they not?
That may be technologically "fair," - it may even be theoretically "just," but is it humane?
Is there a way to impose a sliding scale onto a flat tax, and retain it's flatness? - or does that destroy the complete premise/concept?
Manning345 wrote:
It is a joy to find people that basically agree wi... (show quote)
Jun 3, 2018 23:47:16 #
After basic training, could some of these "trainees" be siphoned off to help repair bridges and roadways, a.k.a., infrastructure?
I know our military has been used for road building (or rebuilding) in Iraq and Afghanistan... how much more valuable would that be for our nation here at home?
I in no way meant to infer that we should deteriorate their training into the operation of a "road gang!"
I know our military has been used for road building (or rebuilding) in Iraq and Afghanistan... how much more valuable would that be for our nation here at home?
I in no way meant to infer that we should deteriorate their training into the operation of a "road gang!"
Manning345 wrote:
Peewee, thanks for the post. br GWOT==Global War o... (show quote)
Jun 3, 2018 23:53:13 #
Peewee
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Sounds okay at first blush to me. We have to deprogram these college kids some way or they'll never survive. Then they'll end up in prison or on the street. All they know how to do now is scream "I'm offended". That's not a life skill and pays nothing. If they aren't qualified make them walk 5 miles a day and then raise it a mile every week until they're doing 10 miles and they meet weight standards and toughen up a bit. A blister never killed anyone that I know of. GWOT, Islam is not compatible with western civilization.
They have to stay where they are or convert before they become a citizen. AGW, not worried about it. Floods and droughts have been a part of life as long as recorded history. I'd worry more about an Ice Age returning more than AGW, a few major volcanoes at the same time and we'd be in another one. As a Christian, I think global warming will occur after the rapture and the oceans will die too.
They have to stay where they are or convert before they become a citizen. AGW, not worried about it. Floods and droughts have been a part of life as long as recorded history. I'd worry more about an Ice Age returning more than AGW, a few major volcanoes at the same time and we'd be in another one. As a Christian, I think global warming will occur after the rapture and the oceans will die too.
Jun 4, 2018 00:41:37 #
Thank you, Ricktloml,
Like many on OPP, I'm "seasoned" enough to have lived through those decades of change, and the country of my youth is retained only in memory.
The mindset of the young, going back at least thirty years in most cases, would require a complete re-educational experience, (to which they would not willingly subject themselves) before they could begin to understand what it means to be an American, and in some cases, to understand they are a human being created in God's image...
rather than believing themselves to have been created in the image of an ape.
Like many on OPP, I'm "seasoned" enough to have lived through those decades of change, and the country of my youth is retained only in memory.
The mindset of the young, going back at least thirty years in most cases, would require a complete re-educational experience, (to which they would not willingly subject themselves) before they could begin to understand what it means to be an American, and in some cases, to understand they are a human being created in God's image...
rather than believing themselves to have been created in the image of an ape.
Ricktloml wrote:
Great post!
Jun 4, 2018 10:57:03 #
Zemirah wrote:
Since you have expressed your receptiveness to ent... (show quote)
You have a valid point. Grover Norquist has a proposal that is supposed to take care of the lower income families without destroying the flat tax idea. My memory of the details is shoddy today, but I will look it up, since I have his book on the subject.
Jun 5, 2018 22:22:05 #
After scanning my 7 bookcases, I cannot find Norquist's book. However, what I remember about taking care of low earners is that they would be refunded what they spent for the flat tax on some scale depending on their reported income. Everyone else beyond some income limit would pay at a flat rate of around 18% of their gross income, or perhaps a bit more. In his proposal, every other tax of any type would be rescinded.
Jun 6, 2018 02:23:29 #
Manning345 wrote:
After scanning my 7 bookcases, I cannot find Norquist's book. However, what I remember about taking care of low earners is that they would be refunded what they spent for the flat tax on some scale depending on their reported income. Everyone else beyond some income limit would pay at a flat rate of around 18% of their gross income, or perhaps a bit more. In his proposal, every other tax of any type would be rescinded.
I like the flat tax idea, but I believe everyone should pay some tax, the poorest maybe just 1%. But everyone needs to have skin in the game, so when some politician talks about raising taxes, all take notice, and it will be everyone's business. There should be brackets but no one should be exempt.
Jun 6, 2018 07:34:42 #
Good morning, Manning,
Re: Grover Norquist
I found two on-line references to his views on the flat tax.
"In October, 2011, Rick Perry’s “Cut, Balance, and Grow” tax proposal drew fire from leftist, centrist, and even some right-leaning think tanks and policy analysts Tuesday, but it found a fan in low-tax guru Grover Norquist.
One selling point for Perry's plan is its incredible simplicity: It levies a 20% tax on all earners, retains deductions for mortgage interest and charitable contributions, and expands deductions for capital gains, dividends, and state and local taxes. As for dependent deductions, Perry proposes increasing them from $3,700 to $12,500. Eventually, Perry claims, his plan would phase out many of these deductions for taxpayers who make more than $500,000 per year.
Norquist, president of the taxpayer advocacy group Americans for Tax Reform, said Perry’s optional 20 percent flat income tax would create jobs and grow the economy.
“It’s very good. I’m very happy,” said Norquist, author of the no-tax-hike pledge embraced by almost every Republican lawmaker in the nation.
Left-leaning think tanks such as the Center for American Progress and right-leaning organizations like the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research reacted negatively to the Perry proposal, saying the tremendous losses in tax revenue that would occur thanks to reduced tax rates on wealthy Americans can’t be reasonably offset by spending cuts.
Norquist disagreed, saying the average American tax rate under the Perry plan would likely be about 25 percent between federal and state taxes: close to the typical European tax rate.
Norquist also praised the Perry proposal for permanently eliminating the “death tax” on the estates of dead individuals, and said the opt-in nature of the plan would be sure to appeal to many taxpayers.
“It’s very wise politically,” Norquist said of the Perry proposal. “I’m not being told I have to do it one way. By making it optional, you tremendously reduce the pushback.”
Raleigh, N.C. — Grover Norquest, one of the fiercest and best known anti-tax campaigners in the country has lent his support to the state Senate's tax reform efforts.
The Senate plan is roughly "revenue neutral," meaning it will raise the same amount of money, or a bit less, than the current tax system overall.
However, some taxpayers will pay more in sales taxes than they save in lower income tax rates.
Norquist, who is famous for eliciting "anti-tax pledges" from lawmakers, said it was acceptable for some individuals to pay more in taxes as long as overall tax collections go down..."
"As I look at it, (the Senate tax plan) sufficiently reduces taxes so that ought not to happen," Norquist said.
Pushed specifically on claims that the plan could increase the tax burden on some low- and middle-income families, Norquist said people should look at the overall effects of the plan. The economy, he said, would grow and raise people's income.
The 2011 Flat Income Tax Plan by Rick Perry certainly sounded promising, and it did include exemptions to avoid over burdening low income citizens.
Grover Norquist's quote which I marked in bold text did sound a bit indifferent to the plight of the low-income.
After a lifetime of book accumulation, I understand looking for that specific book that has somehow disappeared, as it happens to me often.
My study has bookcases on all four walls, floor to ceiling, bookcases in my kitchen, in my bedroom, and six in the living room, others in other bedrooms and one in my bathroom. There are boxes of books stored in the basement, a few in the attic. Some have even made it our to the garage.
The horrific thing about that is after years of spending time, effort, and funds acquiring thousands of books, now I rarely need to refer to most of them, because they're on-line, - but there is still, at least once a month, that one book I need and cannot find.
Most all the reference books, history and founders of world religions and cults, books on the history and application of Christianity and Judaism, and the works of many contemporary authors are now accessible on-line.
Are you familiar with the writing of Arthur Custance?
His bio: "Arthur C. Custance was born and educated in England and moved to Canada in 1928. In his second year at the University of Toronto he was converted to faith in Christ. The experience so changed his thinking that he switched courses, obtaining an honours M.A. in Hebrew and Greek. In his 13 years of formal education, he was particularly interested in anthropology and origins. He completed his Ph.D. at the University of Ottawa in 1959 while serving as head of the Human Engineering Laboratories of the Defence Research Board in Ottawa (Canada) and was engaged in research work for 15 years. During that time he also wrote and published The Doorway Papers, and in retirement in 1970, he wrote 6 major books. His writings are characterized by a rare combination of scholarly thoroughness, scientific knowledge and biblical orthodoxy.
"His writings form a bridge between Science and Theology, for he was concerned about the wide chasm between scientists and theologians. As he put it, "Nothing quite equals the ignorance of the average scientist about theology, except perhaps the ignorance of most theologians about matters of science". For him, the hallmark of Christian scholarship is not that it merely states the Truth (which it certainly ought to do) but rather that it faces up to the Christian implications of the truths presented."
His "Gap theory" page is on-line:
http://www.creationdays.dk/Articles-creation.php
He sounds like someone with whom you would have had a lot in common.
Re: Grover Norquist
I found two on-line references to his views on the flat tax.
"In October, 2011, Rick Perry’s “Cut, Balance, and Grow” tax proposal drew fire from leftist, centrist, and even some right-leaning think tanks and policy analysts Tuesday, but it found a fan in low-tax guru Grover Norquist.
One selling point for Perry's plan is its incredible simplicity: It levies a 20% tax on all earners, retains deductions for mortgage interest and charitable contributions, and expands deductions for capital gains, dividends, and state and local taxes. As for dependent deductions, Perry proposes increasing them from $3,700 to $12,500. Eventually, Perry claims, his plan would phase out many of these deductions for taxpayers who make more than $500,000 per year.
Norquist, president of the taxpayer advocacy group Americans for Tax Reform, said Perry’s optional 20 percent flat income tax would create jobs and grow the economy.
“It’s very good. I’m very happy,” said Norquist, author of the no-tax-hike pledge embraced by almost every Republican lawmaker in the nation.
Left-leaning think tanks such as the Center for American Progress and right-leaning organizations like the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research reacted negatively to the Perry proposal, saying the tremendous losses in tax revenue that would occur thanks to reduced tax rates on wealthy Americans can’t be reasonably offset by spending cuts.
Norquist disagreed, saying the average American tax rate under the Perry plan would likely be about 25 percent between federal and state taxes: close to the typical European tax rate.
Norquist also praised the Perry proposal for permanently eliminating the “death tax” on the estates of dead individuals, and said the opt-in nature of the plan would be sure to appeal to many taxpayers.
“It’s very wise politically,” Norquist said of the Perry proposal. “I’m not being told I have to do it one way. By making it optional, you tremendously reduce the pushback.”
Raleigh, N.C. — Grover Norquest, one of the fiercest and best known anti-tax campaigners in the country has lent his support to the state Senate's tax reform efforts.
The Senate plan is roughly "revenue neutral," meaning it will raise the same amount of money, or a bit less, than the current tax system overall.
However, some taxpayers will pay more in sales taxes than they save in lower income tax rates.
Norquist, who is famous for eliciting "anti-tax pledges" from lawmakers, said it was acceptable for some individuals to pay more in taxes as long as overall tax collections go down..."
"As I look at it, (the Senate tax plan) sufficiently reduces taxes so that ought not to happen," Norquist said.
Pushed specifically on claims that the plan could increase the tax burden on some low- and middle-income families, Norquist said people should look at the overall effects of the plan. The economy, he said, would grow and raise people's income.
The 2011 Flat Income Tax Plan by Rick Perry certainly sounded promising, and it did include exemptions to avoid over burdening low income citizens.
Grover Norquist's quote which I marked in bold text did sound a bit indifferent to the plight of the low-income.
After a lifetime of book accumulation, I understand looking for that specific book that has somehow disappeared, as it happens to me often.
My study has bookcases on all four walls, floor to ceiling, bookcases in my kitchen, in my bedroom, and six in the living room, others in other bedrooms and one in my bathroom. There are boxes of books stored in the basement, a few in the attic. Some have even made it our to the garage.
The horrific thing about that is after years of spending time, effort, and funds acquiring thousands of books, now I rarely need to refer to most of them, because they're on-line, - but there is still, at least once a month, that one book I need and cannot find.
Most all the reference books, history and founders of world religions and cults, books on the history and application of Christianity and Judaism, and the works of many contemporary authors are now accessible on-line.
Are you familiar with the writing of Arthur Custance?
His bio: "Arthur C. Custance was born and educated in England and moved to Canada in 1928. In his second year at the University of Toronto he was converted to faith in Christ. The experience so changed his thinking that he switched courses, obtaining an honours M.A. in Hebrew and Greek. In his 13 years of formal education, he was particularly interested in anthropology and origins. He completed his Ph.D. at the University of Ottawa in 1959 while serving as head of the Human Engineering Laboratories of the Defence Research Board in Ottawa (Canada) and was engaged in research work for 15 years. During that time he also wrote and published The Doorway Papers, and in retirement in 1970, he wrote 6 major books. His writings are characterized by a rare combination of scholarly thoroughness, scientific knowledge and biblical orthodoxy.
"His writings form a bridge between Science and Theology, for he was concerned about the wide chasm between scientists and theologians. As he put it, "Nothing quite equals the ignorance of the average scientist about theology, except perhaps the ignorance of most theologians about matters of science". For him, the hallmark of Christian scholarship is not that it merely states the Truth (which it certainly ought to do) but rather that it faces up to the Christian implications of the truths presented."
His "Gap theory" page is on-line:
http://www.creationdays.dk/Articles-creation.php
He sounds like someone with whom you would have had a lot in common.
Manning345 wrote:
After scanning my 7 bookcases, I cannot find Norquist's book. However, what I remember about taking care of low earners is that they would be refunded what they spent for the flat tax on some scale depending on their reported income. Everyone else beyond some income limit would pay at a flat rate of around 18% of their gross income, or perhaps a bit more. In his proposal, every other tax of any type would be rescinded.
Jun 6, 2018 15:04:42 #
Zemirah wrote:
Good morning, Manning, br br Re: Grover Norquist ... (show quote)
The first 65 or so years of my life I spent starting with training as a B-52 Bomb-Navigation System specialist, then a BS in Physics, going on to designing computers and eventually becoming a system engineer and project manager, all for companies in the military-industrial complex. Since retirement in 2000, I have pursued both religion and writing, my worldview in particular. So, your suggestion to look for Arthur Custance material does indeed intrigue me. I appreciate the tip!
My latest reading has been Larry Witham's book "By Design" Science and the Search for God. It covers the conflict between the Darwinists and the Intelligent Design Movement rather thoroughly in layman's terms. Then too, I have been watching the You Tube videos between the various scientists on the two subjects, and I have a personal library on most of the key ID books, and on Darwinism as well. I tend to favor the ID movement for its logical approach, but I have trouble with some of their work when it dives deep into mathematics I have not used in many years!
Thanks again for the tip, and have a good day!
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