Marsinah

(For whatever good it will do):

"I was all the more astonished at their behavior because their fast (Ramazan), which corresponds to our Lent, was near at hand. Amongst us at this season in the best regulated cities, not to mention the camps, there is a universal din of games, dancing, singing, shouting, revelry, drunkenness, and delirium; in fact, every one goes mad. There is, therefore, no wonder that the story has gained credence about the Turk who, having visited our country on state business as an ambassador at this period of the year, related on his return that the Christians at certain seasons become crazy and mad, but afterwards come to their senses and recover their sanity by being sprinkled with a kind of ash in their temples. It was brought about by this remedy; you could hardly believe that they were the same persons. He meant Ash Wednesday and the festival which precedes it. Those who heard the story were all the more astonished, because the Turks possess various drugs which make men lose their wits, while they know of very few which enable them suddenly to recover them.

During the days immediately preceding the period of fast they [the Turks] make no change for the worse in their ordinary mode of life, and allow themselves no special indulgence in eating and good cheer and licence. On the contrary, they prepare themselves for abstinence by reducing their usual allowance of food, for fear that they may not be able to put up with the sudden change..."

This is taken from "The Turkish Letters of Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq, Ambassador in Ordinary for the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand, to Constantinople, the court of Suleiman the Magnificent, Ottoman Sultan, in about the year 1550 AD, to his ambassador friend, Nicholas Michault.

de Busbecq also wrote this:

"Among the Turks, dignities, offices and administrative posts are the rewards of ability and merit; those who are dishonest, lazy, and slothful never attain to distinction but remain in obscurity and contempt...Our [Christian Europe's} method is different; there is no room for merit; everything depends on birth."

As Karl A. Roider says in his Foreword: " ...there were considerably more opportunities for men of ability to rise in that system than there were in any European country."

Marsinah

http://archive.org/details/lifelettbusbecq01forsuoft

"The Turkish Letters of Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq."

Radiance3

[quote=Marsinah](For whatever good it will do):

"I was all the more astonished at their behavior because their fast (Ramazan), which corresponds to our Lent, was near at hand. Amongst us at this season in the best regulated cities, not to mention the camps, there is a universal din of games, dancing, singing, shouting, revelry, drunkenness, and delirium; in fact, every one goes mad. There is, therefore, no wonder that the story has gained credence about the Turk who, having visited our country on state business as an ambassador at this period of the year, related on his return that the Christians at certain seasons become crazy and mad, but afterwards come to their senses and recover their sanity by being sprinkled with a kind of ash in their temples. It was brought about by this remedy; you could hardly believe that they were the same persons. He meant Ash Wednesday and the festival which precedes it. Those who heard the story were all the more astonished, because the Turks possess various drugs which make men lose their wits, while they know of very few which enable them suddenly to recover them.

During the days immediately preceding the period of fast they [the Turks] make no change for the worse in their ordinary mode of life, and allow themselves no special indulgence in eating and good cheer and licence. On the contrary, they prepare themselves for abstinence by reducing their usual allowance of food, for fear that they may not be able to put up with the sudden change..."

This is taken from "The Turkish Letters of Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq, Ambassador in Ordinary for the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand, to Constantinople, the court of Suleiman the Magnificent, Ottoman Sultan, in about the year 1550 AD, to his ambassador friend, Nicholas Michault.

de Busbecq also wrote this:

"Among the Turks, dignities, offices and administrative posts are the rewards of ability and merit; those who are dishonest, lazy, and slothful never attain to distinction but remain in obscurity and contempt...Our [Christian Europe's} method is different; there is no room for merit; everything depends on birth."

As Karl A. Roider says in his Foreword: " ...there were considerably more opportunities for men of ability to rise in that system than there were in any European country."[/quote]
================
For you are dust, and to dust you will return Marsinah. Ash Wednesday.

Marsinah

I was pretty sure it wouldn't do any good.

I guess that quote gives Christians the moral right to behave like madmen.

Is that all you got out of my topic? We all know he is referring to Fat Tuesday and Ash Wednesday. Except you I guess.

Marsinah

Did you get any of this at all, rad?

Just thought of something: maybe you are just trying to tell the rest of us on OPP to "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die."

Can't figure out how else to explain your dust to dust comment.

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

I think it's weird too. God was the farthest thing from my thoughts at all the Mardi Gras I went to.

I gave up public partying, bars etc. when I was in my early 20s because by then I'd heard and seen all the BS ad nauseum.

Marsinah

Some think Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for the hedonistic ways of the N'awleeners. God doesn't punish; but those hedonistic ways kept them from taking care to prepare for such hurricanes. And there are always many in that area of the South. But those hedonists managed to excuse themselves; they just blamed Bush II.
God doesn't punish; but He does try to save humans from the consequences of their actions.

Remember this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjsGFM-sVbE

"House of the Rising Sun", by The Animals.

Marsinah

"Mother tell your baby children, yea yea
Don't do the things that I've done
Spend your life in sin and misery
In The House, they call, the Rising Sun"

Marsinah

Or how about this version: (Joan Baez)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkyYHYUcGgo


There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
It has been the ruin of many a poor girl
And me, oh, God, I'm one

If I had listened to what my mother said,
I`d have been at home today,
But I was young and foolish, oh, God
Let a rambler lead me astray


Go tell my baby sisters
Don't do what I have done
To shun that house in New Orleans
They call the rising sun

And going back to New Orleans
My race is almost run
I'm going back to spend my life
Beneath the rising sun

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

Some might argue that God lifts His protection from time to time.

Whether He does or not He's certainly let the people of New Orleans know they need to fix their damn levees...and they'd better OVERBUILD this time.

Marsinah

Thanks for posting me, BigMike. I wanted to make sure that EVERYONE understands that when I say God tries to "save" mankind from the consequences of his actions, I mean by His use of instructions, or guidance, or perhaps "morals". He tries to "save" man from the insufferable consequences of his actions. And the more mature humans become, the more they can understand why those actions have the consequences that they do. But of course, humans, being still child-like, obstinately refuse to believe it.

Remember my topic, "Of Mice and Matriarchies, Or How and Why Female Oligarchies Stifle Creativity and Productivity"? Now might be a good time to revisit.

http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-60559-1.html

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

I will do that.

People think God is capricious or uncaring. They haven't the foggiest Creation and all history, Redemption, everything is already accomplished and everyone has been allowed to choose...even Satan, or that the consequences built into the physical universe are types of the consequences built into the spiritual universe. "We see as if through a mirror (polished bronze ) darkly".

Everything makes sense when you simplify the math.

God does help us when we absolutely need it (aside from maintaining existence and all ).

His MO, to me, never more than we need until we need it but always on time, if that makes sense.

Marsinah

Very good. It is true, and I have always said this, God's timing is impeccable.

But He is not capricious; I thought he could be "sneaky" at times, but He corrected me: He is not "sneaky", only subtle. Because humans can not understand Divine means and methods. After all, how could Joan of Arc possibly know that 4 or 5 hundred years into the future, the existence of "Empire" would be unsustainable---to use a favorite word of the Left---but that the emergence of the nation-state would serve to help state-to-state relations.