rumitoid

I did not actually propose anything more than a dialogue on what to do about the epidemic of gun violence peculiar to America over other developed countries. If we want to get biblical, you know a tree by its fruit. We have many Christian leaders and pastors that go on and on about the decayed moral character of America. Drugs, gay marriage, abortion, Hollywood, no prayer in schools, and so on. Is that the fruit of a "good tree"? Oh, and we kept slavery--despite our hypocritical claim that all men are created equal. Then had a hundred years of discrimination. What kind of tree grows such "fruit"?

Consider this: our Revolution against "the governing authorities" planted bad seeds for our future. "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever REBELS against the authority is REBELLING AGAINST WHAT GOD HAS INSTITUTED, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Dr. Evil Loc: In Your Face

It's kind of ironic, you living in Mn and all to say AR's are not hunting rifles. I took my deer this yr with mine, with chronic back problems it's alot lighter than my bolt action, and I don't need to carry more ammo. The sportsman's club here takes out 80-100 coyotes a year with ar-15's and dogs with tracking collars. It isn't the gun and you know it. It starts at home. How many school shootings were there when you were young, don't bullshit me permi, we probably grew up less than 100 miles apart. Society has warped these kids, nothing else.

rumitoid

Well contemplated comments. No attacks or accusations just musing. The argument on the Right usually is the "all or nothing scenario": any action to reduce gun violence is seen as a veiled attempt to take away all guns and that Right should not be infringed.

Trump's first tweet on this shooting was that the shooter was "mentally disturbed." As you pointed out, Trump opened the door to this maniac by revoking Obama's "measure to keep mental patents (patients) from having guns." Then Trump blames the students in a tweet for their deaths and trauma.

rumitoid

Okay, I repeated some fake news, though I have yet to verify that act. But even if it is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, how many school shootings are acceptable? One to me is too many. How many for you?

Crayons Loc: St Jo, Texas

That's what good little leftist lucy cult followers/suckers always do.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Did you notice his childish question to me. How many school shootings are acceptable to you? He thinks he’s clever. Just troll.

peter11937 Loc: NYS

What happens when government decides it will provide for your security by disarming you... http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE5.HTM Makes our shootings look like a sunny day in the park.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

Because each step is like marijuana. Allow that, and the next thing you know, cocaine is legal, etc, etc.

One little step in gun control is a small step toward the attempt to disarm Americans. And, that will NEVER happen. That is why we can tolerate so much BS. WE, the people, are so well armed, there is literally nothing which can over throw us, no matter how insane we might seem.

It's called freedom. We can NEVER be disarmed. Ever.

Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon

Strickter more detailed background checks would be a big help also large ammo sales should go automatically under scrutiny before the sale can go through. What is the AR 15 good for besides a pleasure gun? It was made to kill people with.-- The B word should be considered.. People should still be able to hunt with firearms or own 1 for personal safety. What's the big deal if honest citizens could still buy firearms.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

There is no defense for such ignorance.

Any firearm is an efficient killing machine if that's what someone wants to do with it. I own AR15s and have shot many thousands of rounds with them. I have never killed anyone nor do I intend to do so unless absolutely necessary to protect my life and/or the lives of my family and friends. I truly resent your slanderous accusation that only because I own and shoot an AR15 I am deranged, delusional or disturbed. It is obvious that you have a deranged, delusional and disturbed attitude toward millions of responsible Americans who own and shoot AR15s, or any other gun for that matter. You've been spoon fed the anti-gun hype that guns are the problem. Your entire view of this is not based on reason, common sense, critical thinking, or any knowledge of firearms and the responsibilities of ownership, it is not based on what it means to be a self reliant and responsible American citizen, you are completely consumed by leftist politics, a party apparatchik. If it weren't for liberal politics, your f*cked up world would cease to exist. And this goes for all the liberal airheads blowing the gun control trumpets. None of you give a tinker's damn about the victims of violence, you don't give a shit about the causes of it, you don't even give a crap about enforcing the laws against crime, you are not looking for common sense, reasonable, practical solutions to violence. All that you care about is to demonize an inanimate object that has no say in how it is used. All that drives you is to condemn those of us who really do care about finding solutions to crime and mental illnesses.

What has liberalism done to make America a better place? What has it done to advance the cause of the American way of life. NOTHING. All liberalism has done is crush the human spirit, break down our society, erode our morals, corrupt our culture, thwart prosperity, destroy our education and healthcare systems, suppress our God given gift of freedom and free will, victimize and politicize everyone and everything, suppress intelligence, corrupt the fields of science, and in so many ways, pollute human existence. Put simply, liberalism has created the environment in which crime and violence thrives. And you have the gall to label all those opposed to your wickedness as deranged? Lord deliver us from godless reprobates.

"Sorry, I honestly don't understand why the resistance to tighter gun-control"

Of course you don't understand that. The resistance to tighter gun control is because gun control has never nor ever will prevent such violence. Gun violence, or any violence for that matter, is a symptom not the disease, it is the effect not the cause. Putting a bandaid on a headache doesn't work. Guns are not the problem

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Anti-Gun Nonsense: Here Are Three Idiotic Talking Points Being Peddled By The Left After Florida Shooting

Matt Vespa

Posted: Feb 15, 2018 6:30 PM


Yesterday was horrific. Nikolas Cruz, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL, ventured onto campus with an AR-15 rifle and smoke grenades, pulled the fire alarm, and began to open fire on students and faculty. He killed 17 people and wounded at least a dozen more. It didn’t take long for the anti-gun crowd to start spewing their drivel across various mediums. We have the usual Cobb salad of crap: we’ve had 18 school shootings this year, we should ban semi-automatics, which is an unconstitutional gun ban, you can conceal carry a rifle (no, I’m not kidding), and Trump made it easier for the mentally I’ll to buy firearms. All of this is either flat out wrong or grossly inaccurate.

We all knew that we would have to restack the sand bags. We always do after these tragic events, but we also always win these arguments. Liberal anti-gun positions don’t get better with time; it’s not like aging a fine wine. It’s still the same putrid red progressive meat that everyone else refuses to digest. So, let’s go through the motions of eviscerating these talking points again.

Let’s go with a liberal favorite: Trump rescinded an Obama-era mental health regulation on firearms. This has been brought up before. Last November, former Air Force veteran David Patrick Kelley killed 26 people in a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. He should have been barred from owning firearms since he served a year in jail for domestic abuse, but the Air Force didn’t forward his criminal record to the FBI to update the National Instant Background Check Database. First, the regulation never went into effect. Second, various disability advocacy groups and the American Civil Liberties Union opposed it (via Stephen Gutowski) [emphasis mine]:

The regulation in question was adopted in December 2016 and went into effect on January 18, 2017, after the election of President Trump but before his inauguration two days later. Compliance with the rule was scheduled to begin on December 19, 2017. Before compliance ever began, however, the rule was repealed by a law passed through the House of Representatives and Senate, then signed by President Trump in February 2017. The regulation never had any effect.

The regulation would have required the Social Security Administration to report recipients who have their benefits managed by a representative payee and who meet other criteria to the FBI's background check system, effectively barring them from legally owning firearms. It would have applied to recipients between the ages 18 and 65 who Social Security assigned a representative payee to after determining they were unable to manage their own finances due to a mental impairment. The Social Security Administration would then notify those affected over the phone and in writing. Those affected would have been able to challenge their designation but only after their records have been submitted to the FBI.

Groups from across the political spectrum fought against the regulation's implementation and urged its repeal. Gun-rights groups like the National Rifle Association said the rule was a "gun grab" and criticized it for lacking a determination that those affected are a threat to themselves or others.

The National Council on Disability, Consortium for Citizens With Disabilities, and National Coalition for Mental Health Recovery all submitted letters calling for the reversal of the rule during hearings conducted by the Ways and Means Committee.

"There is, simply put, no nexus between the inability to manage money and the ability to safely and responsibly own, possess or use a firearm," the National Council on Disability said, echoing what the other groups have said. "This arbitrary linkage not only unnecessarily and unreasonably deprives individuals with disabilities of a constitutional right, it increases the stigma for those who, due to their disabilities, may need a representative payee."

So, when you see stuff like “Trump signed a law making it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns,” it’s a lie.

The second round of stupid occurred when CNN tweeted that in Florida, “you don’t need a permit to conceal carry a rifle or shotgun, although you do need it to conceal carry a handgun.” It’s really not worth delving too much into this. If you think you can conceal carry a rifle, you need to stop reporting on firearms. Briefly though, the author seemed surprised that you don’t need to register your firearms in Florida, and that you can buy as many as you want. Yeah, only deep blue states require registration of firearms, with a few outliers; Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are all constitutional carry states. That’s right in these states, including Vermont, the land of Bernie Sanders, they don’t require any of its residents to have a permit to concealed carry their firearms. They all also don’t require registration of firearms with the state. In Vermont, at least 70 percent of the population owns a firearm.

Bonus CNN tweet:

The last narrative that’s being peddled is the ‘we’ve had 18 school shootings so far this year.’ This is total bunk. It’s trash. Even The Washington Post said this statistic is “flat wrong” (via WaPo) [emphasis mine]:

The stunning number swept across the internet within minutes of the news Wednesday that, yet again, another young man with another semi-automatic rifle had rampaged through a school, this time at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High in South Florida.

The figure originated with Everytown for Gun Safety, a nonprofit, co-founded by Michael Bloomberg, that works to prevent gun violence and is most famous for its running tally of school shootings.

It is a horrifying statistic. And it is wrong.

Everytown has long inflated its total by including incidents of gunfire that are not really school shootings. Take, for example, what it counts as the year’s first: On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closed for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

Also listed on the organization’s site is an incident from Jan. 20, when — at 1 a.m. — a man was shot at a sorority event on the campus of Wake Forest University. A week later, as a basketball game was being played at a Michigan high school, someone fired several rounds from a gun in the parking lot. No one was injured, and it was past 8 p.m., well after classes had ended for the day, but Everytown still labeled it a school shooting.

Just five of Everytown’s 18 school shootings listed for 2018 happened during school hours and resulted in any physical injury. Another three appeared to be intentional shootings but didn’t hurt anyone. Two more involved guns — one carried by a school police officer and the other by a licensed peace officer who ran a college club — that were unintentionally fired and, again, led to no injuries. At least seven of Everytown’s 18 shootings took place outside normal school hours.

…since Everytown began its tracking, it has included dubious examples: In August 2013, a man shot on a Tennessee high school’s property at 2 a.m.; in December 2014, a man shot in his car late one night and discovered the next day in a Pennsylvania elementary school parking lot; in August 2015, a man who climbed atop the roof of an empty Texas school on a Sunday morning and fired sporadically; in January 2016, a man in an Indiana high school parking lot whose gun accidentally went off in his glove box, before any students had arrived on campus; in December 2017, two teens in Washington state who shot up a high school just before midnight on New Year’s Eve, when the building was otherwise empty.

In 2015, The Post’s fact checkers awarded the group’s figures — invoked by Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) — four Pinocchios for misleading methodology.

Another incident that Everytown included was a broken bus window caused by a BB gun. No injures were reported.

There is always a knee-jerk reaction to these incidents. Policymaking is cold-hearted. It’s facts and numbers. Yes, personal stories help sell certain initiatives, but it doesn’t negate the fact that most Democratic gun control policies won’t stop future mass shootings, won’t curb gun violence, and only infringe on the civil liberties of law-abiding Americans.

It's quite disheartening to think that nothing could be done, but that's just the facts. None of the recent mass shootings would have been stopped by more gun laws--even The Post gave that claim a Geppetto mark. Banning those on terror or no fly lists, which are secret government lists with zero due process mechanisms, won’t stop mass shootings. Most of the people on these lists are not Americans, so they can’t buy firearms anyway. Expanding background checks won’t stop mass shootings. The cumulative effect argument is still terrible because one bill won’t be made more effective by several other pieces of shoddy anti-gun legislation attached to it. Mass shootings are terrible. They’re also rare. And they still are. As we’ve said before, citing FiveThirtyEight, viewing this issue solely through this lens of mass shootings is a sure fire way to create some really bad policy on guns. Also, it appears that Cruz was reported to the FBI by a YouTube vlogger months ago, but the bureau couldn’t identify the user. It appears as if Cruz used his own name for his account, however.

If there is one article that offers some good points to consider regarding tackling gun violence in America, read The Guardian’s Lois Beckett. The only question is whether the anti-gun Left wants to drop their confiscatory ethos to actually have a conversation on this. Yet, with the anti-gunners spreading shoddy information on shootings and the Second Amendment, I'm afraid we probably won't get there.

Dr. Evil Loc: In Your Face

CNN is like a clown that lost its circus, many of the so-called reporters don't know the difference between an AR-15 and mossberg 500. They bait the people they interview for responses that further their agenda. Then you have people like anderson cooper, hell, he doesn't even't know where his dick belongs, I'd like to see what's hiding on his laptop. They must have the whole staff down there hoping their ratings improve. Fake news at its finest.

rumitoid

Okay, then answer the question.

rumitoid

The monstrously irresponsible argumentative leap to "anti-gun" is pathetic. No one is saying or suggesting taking away your guns. We have a major problem with gun violence. Be mature.

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

Why not invest in something that won't start a civil war or require changing the Constitution. Used to be, if your kid was nuts you could get him committed. Now they give them the drugs that make them crazy, pump their heads full of crap and violence and then blame guns for brainwashing kids.