Kevyn

I am curious as to people's understanding of the terms well regulated and milita as it applys to the second amendment. Is the regulation done by the states or Feds? Is the milita the national guard, or perhaps police departments and sheriff departments organized and regulated by state and local governments. If the first part of the amendment is to be ignored is the term arms limited to firearms or should it include weapons like RPG's and shoulder fired anti aircraft missiles. How about armed aircraft or an armed patrol boat doubling as a pleasure craft. For really rich guys why not ballistic missiles? Is there room for any regulation without violating the second amendment? If the purpose of the second amendment is to allow disgruntled citizens to wage war against an elected government they abhor as many who post here claim, how can they expect success without access to the same weapons as that government possesses?

capitalist

You misunderstand the meaning that Washington stated as understood for the time.
He explained it here in 1790 in the first Congressional conference prior to the Bill of Rights being introduced in 1791.
"A Well Regulated Militia
"A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined;
to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite:
And their safety and interest require that they should
promote such manufactories, as tend to render them
independent on others, for essential,
particularly for military supplies."
---George Washington
First Annual Message to Congress (January 8, 1790)"
"Well regulated" is translated into well disciplined and well organized.
You also seem to not understand how a comma separates several ideas in the same sentence. Therefore the comma between well regulated and the people are not combined into one thought but determined per SCOTUS to be separate ideas.

""This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933 "

Kevyn

What is your take on arms beyond firearms and private individual ownership?

Reddler

Be realistic Kevyn. One would have to buy an RPG through illegal means.

capitalist

Its not my call what my neighbor owns and I don't care. It is not your call either. There are over 100,000,000 people who have arms in this country. A better question is why does this bring out fear in our government and the attempt to pass laws against peaceful people and not address laws that would disarm criminals and why would they pass laws that have been in existence since the 1800's that the peoples army can now be used against them. Why is obomber so afraid of us?
http://info.publicintelligence.net/USAMPS-CivilDisturbanceOps.pdf

freeperson

With the right licenses and background checks through the FBI and BATF everything from machine guns to tanks can be perchased.

Kevyn

My question is asking if in the opinion of OPP contributers the second amendment gives us the right to own such weapons. Obviously they are currently illeagel but many posters think many laws are patently unconstitutional and specific rights are absolute, the second amendment in particular.

commishh

I especially like the quote of Adolf Hitler's bragging about full gun registration and we all know how that turned out! Some people think I don't like Obama because he is black, nothing could be further from the truth.

dukeofsc

It oft amuses me with respect to the question on the 2nd amendment, if you apply the same logic used here to several other subjects which seem to be under perpetual discussion as to whether they are right or left or sanctioned by the constitution or not, are you for or against abortion, well do you flavor killing the baby or not, are you for or against spousal abuse, well depends on whether or not you like beating up your significant other, are you for or against firefighters, well depends on whether or not its your house on fire or someone you despise anyway, you see the argument always seems to wind up being way off base, way out of context and most times utterly stupid in format, Ive been a gun owner almost all my life, Ive served under the flag of the US of A in Vietnam, I marched in a few protests against things I really didn't approve of(can you say "Stimulus")you see if you in your heart are against firearms then you always wind up with the old "bazooka, rocket launcher, rpg" line of query, if you are in flavor of abortion you always wind up at the "clinic bomber, doctor killer" mindset, no one I have ever heard speak with a modicum of common sense has ever said "screw you the 2nd gives us the right to have tanks and battleships and armored assault vehicles in our driveways" the only ones who ever go there are those of you who don't want the rest of us to exercise our right of the 2nd as quickly and vehemently as you do you right to the 1st, even though its our right that keeps yours open and available to you to condemn us for the use thereof.can you say "BAFFLED"

capitalist

Common sense tells me when someone fears me and wants to make sure I cant hurt them when I have done nothing to promote this thinking I don't turn my back on them.
You seem to think that our right to own weapons comes from the government. It does not. Whatever I can afford to protect myself with should not be infringed

dukeofsc

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/01/1183820/-I-ll-let-Mike-Royko-speak-for-me-on-guns#

as I said, very first thing out of this guys mouth, for all the bloviating of the guy who posted it to begin with is foolishness about machine guns and grenades and such, you see my point now about the twist that always seems to permeate the conversation.

capitalist

:thumbup:

Reddler

What are the right licenses?

capitalist

Unconstitutional.
“Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. … [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”

– Tenche Coxe, Delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

papa

kevyn, the forefathers of this country knew what could take place in the future after the revolution. therefore they state in the 2nd amendment that all citizens have the right to arm & protect themselves from all those who would do harm to them & this country, both foreign & domestic. why do you suppose this administration has purchased all the hi-powered rifles & ammunition they could? it was not to keep the free law abiding citizens from getting them. ths administration is planning something in this country that will require the use of that arsenal. once the 2nd admendment is destroyed. the rest of the constitution will be completely destroyed shortly thereafter.