tommymore

out of the woods Loc: to hell and gone New York State

You sound like my son after three years of college indoctrination. What I know is that I own my own business, and I control all production, distribution and exchange myself, so yes I hate socialism, being the precursor of communism. My knowledge is practical, born of hard work and self determination, not gleaned from a textbook.

pafret Loc: Northeast

You are right about the refurbishing and I do not consider that building new walls, that is maintenance. The wall concept was a useful tool to galvanize the proletariat so that they would support Trump. The truth is that fixed fortifications are useless as the French discovered with their Maginot line and the Chinese had the same experience with the Great Wall. There is always a way around, under, over, or through such fortifications.

A better concept would be the increased use of electronic surveillance, drones with military offensive capabilities and increased manpower to monitor and control the border zones. Rapid deployment contingents could be dispatched from a series of posts to wherever an incursion is being attempted. A wall does not have to be concrete and steel and indeed is bettrer off if it is not . Altering surveillance methods is quicker and cheaper when they are not material.

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

You're Painting With The Broadest Brush I've Ever Seen
And You're Equivalizing Disaster Relief As 'Welfare State' ??
Are You About To Pull Out An Un-Qualified Lecture On
The Constitutional Meaning Of 'Promote The Common WELFARE ??

I May, At One Time, Been Tainted With A Spot Of Liberalism
And At The Age Of 13-15yrs Old, Surprised I Warded It Off As Well As I Did
I Was Only Catching It At Every Turn

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

I Don't Have A Chrystal Ball

But I Do Know You Don't Just Drop New Fenders On A Rust-Bucket
Or Start The Remodel Until Repairs Are Made

kenvrla Loc: East Tx Piney Woods

We had this discussion a while back, pafret, and I am still in agreement that the first step should be "technical options" to enhance and improve security for illegal immigration and drug running. At this point it will give us the best bang for the buck and if done correctly may preclude the need for further wall enhancement. Always good to hear your views, as you seem to stick to the more practical side of things. Doing nothing is not an option.

son of witless

You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and you have just enough of a little to be scary. Just for your information, the Great Wall in China did work. The Maginot Line is a different matter. Both were built to keep out armed invasions. One worked, one did not. Neither has a thing to do with a border wall. The Great Wall of Donald J. Trump is not meant to keep out an armed invasion from Mexico.

If you knew what of you speak you would compare the proposed Great Wall of Trump to the Israeli West Bank Barrier, which actually does work. Research it and report back when you know what you are talking about.

pafret Loc: Northeast

Why don't you try researching the zeitgeist of the Israeli people and then compare it to our nation to see why the token wall in Israel really works. If you think I don't know what I am talking about lay a few facts on me, not a condescending rejection.

son of witless

It works because it is a physical barrier that is part of a larger system. " zeitgeist " is another red herring you are just throwing out there blindly. I am sorry I used the Israeli wall as an example. I forgot your attitude towards Israel. The fact remains that it is a valid comparison to justify the proposed border wall, whereas your examples of the Great Wall of China and the Maginot Line are not valid comparisons.

pafret Loc: Northeast

I don't know what you consider my attitude toward Israel is but I assure you it has nothing to do with my assessment. The Israelis have been under threat of annihilation from the time of their inception at the end of WWII. They have been forced to fight two wars against very powerful coalitions of the surrounding countries. They live from day to day with the constant threat of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks on the streets, in their homes, in their schools and in their Synogogues. The wall is a slow down deterrant, not a panacea. The real security is provided by the Israeli people themselves because of their hyper-awareness of anything out of place or suspicious. They have been living under this constant threat for seventy years and they have no misconceptions as to the nature or identity of their enemy.

Contrast that with the prevailing, leaky faucet, do gooderism in this country. These people are in this country illegally and we cannot bring ourselves to call them what they are, they are undocumented visitors, they are dreamers. They are illegal aliens and an enormous economic burden on the people of this country in that they must be fed, clothed , housed, provided medical attention and education for their children. All without being entitled to any of it and we have a huge segment of our population who do not recognize this as a warlike invasion. Our jails are filled with alien criminals, our cities are unsafe because of their presence. Jobs which would be filled by our own poor are being occupied by these people who get hired because they can be exploited by employers who do not pay a fair wage to them. We allow our sympathy to blind us to the peril we face in losing our nation to these hordes who do not have the same values we do.

This is what I was referring to as the zeitgeist; you unfortunately needed it spelled out so now you have it. The nature of the two nations is radically different with regard to external threats. Israel's wall is an assist to stopping unimpeded attacks. Our wall will be bypassed and the stupidity of our people will assure that the problem will never be resolved. Until we return to the rule of law and force these squatters out of our contry we will never regain even a portion of the former American ethos. I am a mono-culturalist, an American and I do not not want to embrace multi-culturism. If their cultures were so damned fine why didn't they stay home instead of coming here?

Post script:

The Great Wall was breached many times through corruption and bribery of the officials who controlled access. Why batter it down when you can buy your way in? This will be one of the prinicple ways our wall will be circumvented. Plus, Mena style CIA operations will spring up all over the country to contuinue the drug trade. These druggies are heavily armed so this constitutes an armed invasion. It won't be long after this gets started that enemy infiltraters will be smuggled in and finally Juan and Jose will be back as well, probably as drug mules to gain access to the US. Once again, the wall will be bypassed. Mexico has a wall between their southern border and Guatemala. Have you noticed that a significant portion of our illegals are Guatemalans? Works well doesn't it?

son of witless

My apologies. I confused you with a couple of other posters. Your name on here and the way I interpreted your answer lead me to believe you were one of a couple of anti Israeli frequent flyers I have experienced on OPP. I now see by your answer you are not them. I don't have a perfect recall of usernames. Again my apologies.

But to get back to the point " The wall is a slow down deterrant, not a panacea. " Nobody ever said a Mexico Border Wall is anything except a " slow down deterrant, ". All walls are only that, but that is enough. THE WALL does not have to be perfect . It does not have to stop all illegal immigration. It merely needs to slow it down to manageable levels. In combination with other measures it is enough. Walls work. They can be overcome, but only with great effort and that is the point. Not all or even most illegal aliens and drug smugglers will be willing and able to put forth the effort to go over, under, around, or through the wall. Those that do we just have to live with.

You can argue about the expense and effectiveness of the proposed wall if you choose. However, not having a wall is a provable disaster !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The ocean is also a barrier to illegal immigration. Not perfect, but it slows down the numbers. Imagine if people walked on water. If they did not have to take a plane, a boat, or swim to cross the ocean. We'd have to build walls all along the coasts. Like the English Channel was just enough of an imperfect barrier, when in combination with the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force, it kept Hitler from invading Great Britain in 1940. The Great Wall of China did not always work, but it worked enough. The Maginot Line would have worked if it had been extended and been part of a larger strategy to stop the Germans instead of being the only strategy.

This is all about will. The Wall WILL WORK. The obvious problem is that with the Democrats blocking and the Rinos tackling, WILL the Wall ever get built ????????????????????? The American People voted for Donald J. Trump as President to build the Wall. So the American People want the Wall built. So far Democrats and Republicans have blocked the WILL of the American People.

son of witless

I just thought of something, the wall defending Constantinople. The wall kept Attila the Hun out. Except for the Crusader sack of the city in 1204, Constantinople's city walls kept out invaders for roughly one thousand years. A lot of those years the Byzantine Empire was very weak, yet the walls held. The Turks in 1453 used cannons to blast through the walls. So the walls only failed twice more than a thousand years. That is pretty good for a concept that you say does not work.

Carol Kelly

Sarcasm never gets you far.