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why do you think I am opposed to conservatives
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Jul 23, 2017 07:43:23   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Super Dave wrote:
It is quite grey and sticky over there, isn't it?

We're fortunate to be here, and not there.


I mentioned Crimea because it is pretty clear cut. The rest of it? Not so much. The Ukrainian provinces of Donetsk, Donbas, and Luhansk contain substantial numbers of ethnic Russians also, around 40%, but not a majority. Those three areas still contain a majority of ethnic Ukrainians. Barely.

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Jul 23, 2017 08:45:53   #
JW
 
PeterS wrote:
Russia may be a leftist society but the government is very much RW authoritarian. And understand, anything that relies on a single strong man is authoritarian. I know you say you don't like labels but they allow us to understand what's going on. From a ideological perspective, anything that is authoritarian is right wing. Conversely, anything that is totalitarian is left wing. Because of your dislike of labels you called something both left and right wing at the same time.

Mussolini, as was Hitler, was an authoritarian strongman and he bolstered his strength through a system of corporatism. Fascists chased down socialists, communists, and leftists and usually killed them, or if they were being kind, ran them out of the country. You want to call that left wing? Sorry but that is straight out of the RW play book of the day.

This from your link: "This is very negative. It's a clear signal that the regime will be authoritarian and autocratic, and control everything. It's all about keeping power. The tsar was constrained by the aristocracy. The party bureaucracy controlled the general secretary. Today the president controls parliament, the senate, regions, the bureaucracy and the security services, as well as oil and gas."

Russia today is a authoritarian regime surrounded by wealthy businessmen or an oligopoly. It all centers around Putin though and the more we stifle the oligopoly with sanctions the more Putin is threatened and why he worked so hard to get Trump in, as he was the only hope of getting Obama's sanctions removed.
Russia may be a leftist society but the government... (show quote)


Why would he want Trump elected? He already owned Hillary. She was on record as opposing sanctions on Russia. He and his friends were major contributors to the Clinton Foundation.

As I have already stated, it's all always about power.

Socialists kill socialists, capitalists kill capitalists, everyone kills everyone in the pursuit and maintenance of power.

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Jul 23, 2017 08:52:33   #
JW
 
Loki wrote:
I mentioned Crimea because it is pretty clear cut. The rest of it? Not so much. The Ukrainian provinces of Donetsk, Donbas, and Luhansk contain substantial numbers of ethnic Russians also, around 40%, but not a majority. Those three areas still contain a majority of ethnic Ukrainians. Barely.


During the Soviet era, Moscow made a deliberate attempt to settle ethnic Russians in all of the areas they wanted to eventually annex.

I was aware of Khrushchev's gift to the Ukraine. I delved into the history of Crimea after reading The Charge of the Light Brigade in high school.

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Jul 23, 2017 09:13:46   #
out of the woods Loc: to hell and gone New York State
 
permafrost wrote:
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not become a conservative..

I'm absolutely open to conservative views!

Here's one I rather like: fiscal responsibility. Here's the problem, though: can you name the last Republican president to balance a budget? Hint: It wasn't Trump, either Bush, Reagan, Ford, or Nixon. Instead, the GOP has driven up spending, primarily on the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Here's another one I like: keeping the federal government out of our personal lives. If you're lobbying for the federal government to tell people how to conduct their sexuality, you're in violation of this. The GOP has been bitterly cruel to the LGBT community. Also, the anti-abortion movement is not for personal freedom; it is for imposing your moral judgments on others.

In my estimation, conservatism went off the tracks in the 1980s as Reagan and others embraced the Religious Right. Increasingly, the conservative movement seems to be predicated on two very questionable premises: (1) Straight white Christian men are best suited to decide what's right for everyone in this country, and (2) unfettered capitalism always makes the world better.

But frankly, the biggest problem that I have with “modern” conservatism is its apparent immunity to scientific truths. If you think climate change is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. If you think evolutionary biology is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. And it's one thing to be ignorant, but if your ignorance shapes your policy, then I can't get on board your big dumb train.
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not b... (show quote)

To be honest, I rarely read liberal posts through, as most state the same old crap. Your statement concerning abortion is true, calling the slaughter of innocent children murder is a moral judgement, and wholly appropiate. Murder is murder, not choice. People that choose to commit murder, are murderers regardless of circumstance. Not wishing to pay the consequence of our actions is a universal tendency, we can understand why, but it never justifies the end. Never ever, period.

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Jul 23, 2017 10:37:06   #
Kazudy
 
permafrost wrote:
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not become a conservative..

I'm absolutely open to conservative views!

Here's one I rather like: fiscal responsibility. Here's the problem, though: can you name the last Republican president to balance a budget? Hint: It wasn't Trump, either Bush, Reagan, Ford, or Nixon. Instead, the GOP has driven up spending, primarily on the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Here's another one I like: keeping the federal government out of our personal lives. If you're lobbying for the federal government to tell people how to conduct their sexuality, you're in violation of this. The GOP has been bitterly cruel to the LGBT community. Also, the anti-abortion movement is not for personal freedom; it is for imposing your moral judgments on others.

In my estimation, conservatism went off the tracks in the 1980s as Reagan and others embraced the Religious Right. Increasingly, the conservative movement seems to be predicated on two very questionable premises: (1) Straight white Christian men are best suited to decide what's right for everyone in this country, and (2) unfettered capitalism always makes the world better.

But frankly, the biggest problem that I have with “modern” conservatism is its apparent immunity to scientific truths. If you think climate change is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. If you think evolutionary biology is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. And it's one thing to be ignorant, but if your ignorance shapes your policy, then I can't get on board your big dumb train.
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not b... (show quote)

When I saw the headline"why I cannot become a conservative" Let's see what this person's reasons are. Then I saw it came from permafrost, just a mind numb robot mouth piece for the left. Climate change IS A HOAX! We have had that discussion already. On the LGBT Whatever they do in the privacy of their bedrooms IS NOT MY BUSINESS. But don't force me and Christian families to accept it as normal when God says that it is"an abomination."And I most certainly rathter listen to God then YOU and the LGBT on that. I suppose you applauded Obama when he black mailed the public schools by denying them federal funds if they didn't allow men in our daughters and granddaughters rest rooms, locker rooms, and showers. Admit this..... You are just a Kool-Aid drinking,pinko commie,pro abortion,forcing the Christians to accept the homosexual agenda Democrat Liberal.

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Jul 23, 2017 10:50:42   #
ldsuttonjr Loc: ShangriLa
 
permafrost wrote:
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not become a conservative..

I'm absolutely open to conservative views!

Here's one I rather like: fiscal responsibility. Here's the problem, though: can you name the last Republican president to balance a budget? Hint: It wasn't Trump, either Bush, Reagan, Ford, or Nixon. Instead, the GOP has driven up spending, primarily on the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Here's another one I like: keeping the federal government out of our personal lives. If you're lobbying for the federal government to tell people how to conduct their sexuality, you're in violation of this. The GOP has been bitterly cruel to the LGBT community. Also, the anti-abortion movement is not for personal freedom; it is for imposing your moral judgments on others.

In my estimation, conservatism went off the tracks in the 1980s as Reagan and others embraced the Religious Right. Increasingly, the conservative movement seems to be predicated on two very questionable premises: (1) Straight white Christian men are best suited to decide what's right for everyone in this country, and (2) unfettered capitalism always makes the world better.

But frankly, the biggest problem that I have with “modern” conservatism is its apparent immunity to scientific truths. If you think climate change is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. If you think evolutionary biology is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. And it's one thing to be ignorant, but if your ignorance shapes your policy, then I can't get on board your big dumb train.
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not b... (show quote)


perm: Your completely illiterate on all the above subjects !

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Jul 23, 2017 11:04:46   #
badbobby Loc: texas
 
permafrost wrote:
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not become a conservative..

I'm absolutely open to conservative views!

Here's one I rather like: fiscal responsibility. Here's the problem, though: can you name the last Republican president to balance a budget? Hint: It wasn't Trump, either Bush, Reagan, Ford, or Nixon. Instead, the GOP has driven up spending, primarily on the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Here's another one I like: keeping the federal government out of our personal lives. If you're lobbying for the federal government to tell people how to conduct their sexuality, you're in violation of this. The GOP has been bitterly cruel to the LGBT community. Also, the anti-abortion movement is not for personal freedom; it is for imposing your moral judgments on others.

In my estimation, conservatism went off the tracks in the 1980s as Reagan and others embraced the Religious Right. Increasingly, the conservative movement seems to be predicated on two very questionable premises: (1) Straight white Christian men are best suited to decide what's right for everyone in this country, and (2) unfettered capitalism always makes the world better.

But frankly, the biggest problem that I have with “modern” conservatism is its apparent immunity to scientific truths. If you think climate change is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. If you think evolutionary biology is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. And it's one thing to be ignorant, but if your ignorance shapes your policy, then I can't get on board your big dumb train.
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not b... (show quote)



Perm
just a reminder
Obama more than doubled the deficit
Admittedly we have interfered in matters that we shouldn't have,but that was both parties
how many lives(yes lives,(a fetus is most certainly a life)has abortion taken?
Obama shoved a terrible health plan down the nations throat,and gave us transgender bathrooms
this world has had climate changes since the beginning

Reply
Jul 23, 2017 11:14:32   #
Patsaco1
 
JW wrote:
I was a liberal for most of my life. I was a local official in the McGovern campaign. I gave up on the Left when two things became overly commonplace in the Leftist vocabulary; everyone they didn't like became Hitleresque and it became common "knowledge" that the "people" were not smart enough to know what is best for themselves.

There is a basic truth I learned about power. To get it, the solicitors will promise everything and to keep it, the holders will do anything. Power doesn't live by the same rules as the "common people".

It really doesn't matter what you label the politicians. They behave exactly the same depending on their control of the processes.
I was a liberal for most of my life. I was a local... (show quote)


I have said for awhile now that "We the People" need a new party. Party of Common Sense comes to my mind. Both parties have lost their minds. We don't know what our elected officials stand for anymore. They change their minds depending on where they get more $$$ in their war chest. $$$ talks is their only motto. Why else would our elected officials let Obama do what he did while in office!!!
Term limits should be no question. These lifers all need to go.

Reply
Jul 23, 2017 11:34:49   #
PeterS
 
JW wrote:
Why would he want Trump elected? He already owned Hillary. She was on record as opposing sanctions on Russia. He and his friends were major contributors to the Clinton Foundation.

As I have already stated, it's all always about power.

Socialists kill socialists, capitalists kill capitalists, everyone kills everyone in the pursuit and maintenance of power.


He blame Hillary for the mass protests of 2011. “She said they were dishonest and unfair,” Putin fumed in public remarks, saying that Clinton gave “a signal” to demonstrators working “with the support of the U.S. State Department” to undermine his power. “We need to safeguard ourselves from this interference in our internal affairs,” Putin declared. Former U.S. officials who worked on Russia policy with Clinton say that Putin was personally stung by Clinton’s December 2011 condemnation of Russia’s parliamentary elections, and had his anger communicated directly to President Barack Obama. They say Putin and his advisers are also keenly aware that, even as she executed Obama’s “reset” policy with Russia, Clinton took a harder line toward Moscow than others in the administration. And they say Putin sees Clinton as a forceful proponent of “regime change” policies that the Russian leader considers a grave threat to his own survival.

With Trump Putin had someone who could relate to his authoritarian oligopoly and as we evidence from their European meetings two people who were very comfortable being with each other. If that were Hillary they wouldn't have spent ten minutes together. If that's a love affair with Clinton then it is a very peculiar one.

And Fascists also kill socialists, communists, and liberals too--which is what Hitler did. A good book on political ideology is Political Ideologies: Their Origins and Impact by Leon P. Baradat. I think the early editions better. It's been around since the 70's and you can pick it up really cheap. You should read it, or something on political ideology, so you can understand the 'labels' as they apply to us.

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Jul 23, 2017 11:46:40   #
JW
 
PeterS wrote:
He blame Hillary for the mass protests of 2011. “She said they were dishonest and unfair,” Putin fumed in public remarks, saying that Clinton gave “a signal” to demonstrators working “with the support of the U.S. State Department” to undermine his power. “We need to safeguard ourselves from this interference in our internal affairs,” Putin declared. Former U.S. officials who worked on Russia policy with Clinton say that Putin was personally stung by Clinton’s December 2011 condemnation of Russia’s parliamentary elections, and had his anger communicated directly to President Barack Obama. They say Putin and his advisers are also keenly aware that, even as she executed Obama’s “reset” policy with Russia, Clinton took a harder line toward Moscow than others in the administration. And they say Putin sees Clinton as a forceful proponent of “regime change” policies that the Russian leader considers a grave threat to his own survival.

If that's a love affair with Clinton then it is a very peculiar one.

And Fascists also kill socialists, communists, and liberals too--which is what Hitler did. A good book on political ideology is Political Ideologies: Their Origins and Impact by Leon P. Baradat. I think the early editions better. It's been around since the 70's and you can pick it up really cheap. You should read it, or something on political ideology, so you can understand the 'labels' as they apply to us.
He blame Hillary for the mass protests of 2011. i... (show quote)


You don't necessarily love what you own. You can believe you bought a lemon but it's still yours.

I am quite familiar with the labels. I am also aware of the behaviors behind them. My concern is behavior, not labels.

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Jul 23, 2017 11:51:54   #
fullspinzoo
 
eden wrote:
I can't disagree with most of your post but to be fair some liberal thinking is a little too indulgent the other way. Both major parties seem like giant omnibuses that if you board after seeing something you like you suddenly find yourself in the company of malodorous ideas that are also on the bus. Seems like the country functions slightly better under centrist candidates like Bush 41 and Clinton. What is not attractive is a Presidency that ignores and even derides the core voters of the opposite party as if "we are in charge now and you morons can eat it..."
Nixon and Trump come to mind in that category.
I can't disagree with most of your post but to be ... (show quote)


And Mr. "I have a phone and a pen" Obama doesn't? He did not care about the other side. Did you ever see him once work the "other side of the aisle"? I can't recall one time.

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Jul 23, 2017 11:54:26   #
PeterS
 
JW wrote:
You don't necessarily love what you own. You can believe you bought a lemon but it's still yours.

I am quite familiar with the labels. I am also aware of the behaviors behind them. My concern is behavior, not labels.

And yet you are ignoring the behavior. That's not much of a concern....

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Jul 23, 2017 11:56:52   #
JW
 
Patsaco1 wrote:
I have said for awhile now that "We the People" need a new party. Party of Common Sense comes to my mind. Both parties have lost their minds. We don't know what our elected officials stand for anymore. They change their minds depending on where they get more $$$ in their war chest. $$$ talks is their only motto. Why else would our elected officials let Obama do what he did while in office!!!
Term limits should be no question. These lifers all need to go.


I agree that we need a new party.

Term limit is a two edged sword. The faster the elected rotate through the system, the more influential the career bureaucrats become and they are already too important.

Reply
Jul 23, 2017 11:59:15   #
JW
 
PeterS wrote:
And yet you are ignoring the behavior. That's not much of a concern....


How am I ignoring behavior? That we see things differently doesn't imply ignorance of behavior.

Reply
Jul 23, 2017 13:23:18   #
cold iron Loc: White House
 
permafrost wrote:
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not become a conservative..

I'm absolutely open to conservative views!

Here's one I rather like: fiscal responsibility. Here's the problem, though: can you name the last Republican president to balance a budget? Hint: It wasn't Trump, either Bush, Reagan, Ford, or Nixon. Instead, the GOP has driven up spending, primarily on the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Here's another one I like: keeping the federal government out of our personal lives. If you're lobbying for the federal government to tell people how to conduct their sexuality, you're in violation of this. The GOP has been bitterly cruel to the LGBT community. Also, the anti-abortion movement is not for personal freedom; it is for imposing your moral judgments on others.

In my estimation, conservatism went off the tracks in the 1980s as Reagan and others embraced the Religious Right. Increasingly, the conservative movement seems to be predicated on two very questionable premises: (1) Straight white Christian men are best suited to decide what's right for everyone in this country, and (2) unfettered capitalism always makes the world better.

But frankly, the biggest problem that I have with “modern” conservatism is its apparent immunity to scientific truths. If you think climate change is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. If you think evolutionary biology is up for debate, you're scientifically illiterate. And it's one thing to be ignorant, but if your ignorance shapes your policy, then I can't get on board your big dumb train.
These are pretty much the main reasons I can not b... (show quote)



LOL..can you name the last Republican president to balance a budget? I guess you think 6 months is long enough time!! As long as their fools that think we can spend our way to prosperity, we will NEVER get near a balance budget.

The LGBT is far from fair about anything, sueing a baker into bankruptcy because he will not bake you a cake is ok with you? Do you know their are only two sexes.??

Do you know that a group of climate change believer's chartered the 2nd largest Ice Breaker that Canada has to take them into the arctic sea to gather info to make their case. We, it was called off in June because the Ice Breaker could not break the 12 foot ice and make head way, gee what happened here, why are we not seeing this on every news channel like CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC. I guess they don't want you to know the true facts.

You need not fear of becoming a conservative, you will never make the cut.

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