No Rose42,

You gave the Protestant f**e-information facts, reformation fact's found in your comments and retort.

Matt Slick, carm.org is an anti-Catholic and routinely spout's anti-Catholic rhetoric.

My suggestion, to you rose42, is to stop being so disingenuous with trying to justify your personal religious beliefs, and your Man-Made Berean church theology and philosophy and stick to the t***hful-verifiable facts.\

Do the true honest research, and not repeating some lying Protestant Man-Made Berean Church website anti-catholic rhetoric.

Again rose42,
You are "dishonest, devious, deceitful and are religiously Protestantly disingenuous"... "DDDND" !!!


Do the actual t***hful research on world history facts, And Christian Church history facts. Stop Lying...

Development of the Christian biblical canon:
We can say with some certainty that the first widespread edition of the Bible was assembled by St. Jerome around A.D. 400. This manuscript included all 46 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament in the same language: Latin. This edition of the Bible is commonly referred to as The Vulgate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon

Early collections
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon

Rose42,
You don't know what you are talking about historical and with actual Catholic Church records prove you wrong, go to these two web sites and you will see where you error's, and where your Protestant personal Berean church is lying to you.

Rose42,
Your mind is crippled and hobbled, Please use actual t***hful URL links to articles and webpages that are verifiable and honest verifiable reporting of facts. As I have done.

You're Protestant Berean facade is loosing this argument, once again.

Since your so smart, and are just a member of the cheerleaders and can’t give a factual opinion.

1. What percentage of molestation and sexual crimes do all high schools and private school teachers commit ?

2. What percentage of priests, pastors, ministers, rabbi’s , imams of all faiths commit child molestationsnd sex crimes?

Put your money where your mouth is not.

For the past 50 years this predatory behaviors has had a world wide rise through out the world.

This sexual criminal d*****t behavior by men and women and sexual abusing of children has always been, since the beginning of time.

Because of our unGodly modernist attitude and lack of decent morality in this modern day Revelitism mindset and sexualy d*****t behavior against innocent children has flourished and is a sharp rise in the world.

Satan and his evil Demons are trying to corrupt many men and women’s souls to commit evil against these innocent child beings demons are trying to corrupt many men and women’s souls to commit evil against these innocent child beings.

This sexual crimes are on the increase, it effects are found in all religious organizations, secular and non-secular society.

You can not pin this only on the Catholic Priests.

This man-women made sexual criminal crimes are everywhere, the sex trades and crimes are everywhere.

Don’t be so naive, as to think that it is only a Catholic priest thing. The current media and sensational news reporting is only targeting the Catholic Church and Catholic Priests.

So just remember you are only hearing one part of many parts to the whole human sexual crimes against innocent children criminal sexual predators.

Wake up and smell the roses.

Rose42,

All you and TexaCan only do is give opinions with no facts to back up your opinions.

Whereas I give you facts.

Every one has opinions, and every has a, you fill in the blank, an seven letter word, beginning with A and ending with e.

So unless you can corroborate your opinions with verifiable facts, then your opinions are a mute point.

This is your problem all the time with your comments and unfactual replies and is just pure unalderated compost that you spew forth from your Protestant lying and blasphemous mind and mouth.

Rose42, and TexaCan,
If you only knew your Christian History, Church History, and weren’t so boneheaded in your lack of research and pure ignorance as to the actual facts.

Maybe if you weren’t so dishonest in your heart, mind and very soul, there could be some discussion, but your mindset is of the OPP FRS forum and the h**e-speech laced one-way dialogue that you maintain as the leading member of the five Horsemen and five horse women of the protestant Apocalypse mob.

You’re very in-Christian Ugliness and lack of any historical knowledge of the ancient history Church, This Is just a continual lying story which I will always prove you wrong, you’ll never change you're mean spirited ways and ugly Evil personality and Reprehensible demor, that is so deep inside of your heart mind and soul.

Amen, amen, Let it be so, I believe, amen, amen.
I

rose42

Go argue with someone else.

You are sick in the head, you have major psychological problems.

Stop Religiously Stalking me... Go back to your troll home on the OPP FRS Forum

I'm now, going to complain about you to Admin.

You are a simpleton.... You have no concept of Religious history, and you can't think outside of your Berean church mentality box.

Get a Life rose....

Because of that, Boto said, the committee "realized that lifting up a model that could not be enforced was an exercise in futility," and so instead drafted a report that "accepted the existence of the problem rather than attempting to define its magnitude.”

Q&A: 
Investigation into sexual abuse 'shining the light of day upon crime,' Southern Baptist leader says

SBC churches and organizations share resources and materials, and together they fund missionary trips and seminaries.

Most pastors are ordained locally after they've convinced a small group of church elders that they've been called to service by God.

There is no central database that tracks ordinations, or sexual abuse convictions or allegations.

All of that makes Southern Baptist churches highly susceptible to predators, says Christa Brown, an activist who wrote a book about being molested as a child by a pastor at her SBC church in Farmers Branch, a Dallas suburb.

"It's a perfect profession for a con artist, because all he has to do is talk a good talk and convince people that he's been called by God, and bingo, he gets to be a Southern Baptist minister," said Brown, who lives in Colorado.

"Then he can infiltrate the entirety of the SBC, move from church to church, from state to state, go to bigger churches and more prominent churches where he has more influence and power, and it all starts in some small church.

"It's a porous sieve of a denomination.”

To try to measure the problem, the newspapers collected and cross-checked news reports, prison records, court records, sex offender registries and other documents.

Reporters also conducted hundreds of interviews with victims, church leaders, investigators and offenders.

‘So many people’s faith is murdered.

I mean, their faith is slaughtered by these predators.’

David Pittman, who says he was molested by his youth minister
Several factors make it likely that the abuse is even more widespread than can be documented:

Victims of sexual assault come forward at a low rate; many cases in churches are handled internally; and many Southern Baptist churches are in rural communities where media coverage is sparse.

It's clear, however, that SBC leaders have long been aware of the problem.

Bowing to pressure from activists, the Baptist General Convention of Texas, one of the largest SBC state organizations, in 2007 published a list of eight sex offenders who had served in Southern Baptist churches in Texas.

TexaCan,

You've really made yourself look ugly.

Go Back to the OPP FRS Forum troll Home, and stay there.

Back to your evil sniveling whining evangelical fundamentalisms self.

Since you ruined the OPP FRS Forum, with the 5 Horse-men Horse-women of the Protestant Apocalypse

Now you and rose are Religious Stalkers

Go get a life, you're an ugly baptist deep inside, and your opinions are really childish.

Here is the problem that Baptists hid things that they are ashamed of.

02/10/2019 20 years, 700 victims: Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders resist reforms

Robert Downen, Lise Olsen, and John Tedesco
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php

First of three parts

Thirty-five years later, Debbie Vasquez's voice trembled as she described her trauma to a group of Southern Baptist leaders.

She was 14, she said, when she was first molested by her pastor in Sanger, a tiny prairie town an hour north of Dallas.

It was the first of many assaults that Vasquez said destroyed her teenage years and, at 18, left her pregnant by the Southern Baptist pastor, a married man more than a dozen years older.

In June 2008, she paid her way to Indianapolis, where she and others asked leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention and its 47,000 churches to track sexual predators and take action against congregations that harbored or concealed abusers. 

Vasquez, by then in her 40s, implored them to consider prevention policies like those adopted by faiths that include the Catholic Church.

In this 2007 file photo, Debbie Vasquez holds a photo of herself at age 14, when she says she was first molested by the pastor of her church in Sanger, about one hour north of Dallas.
(Donna McWilliam/Associated Press)

"Listen to what God has to say," she said, according to audio of the meeting, which she recorded.

"... All that evil needs is for good to do nothing. ... Please help me and others that will be hurt.”

Days later, Southern Baptist leaders rejected nearly every proposed reform.

The abusers haven't stopped.

They've hurt hundreds more.

Prosecutors, convicted pastors discuss sexual assault.
Media: Jon Shapley/Houston Chronicle

In the decade since Vasquez's appeal for help, more than 250 people who worked or volunteered in Southern Baptist churches have been charged with sex crimes, an investigation by the Houston Chronicle and the San Antonio Express-News reveals.

It's not just a recent problem:

In all, since 1998, roughly 380 Southern Baptist church leaders and volunteers have faced allegations of sexual misconduct, the newspapers found.

That includes those who were convicted, credibly accused and successfully sued, and those who confessed or resigned.

More of them worked in Texas than in any other state.

They left behind more than 700 victims, many of them shunned by their churches, left to themselves to rebuild their lives.

Some were urged to forgive their abusers or to get a******ns.

About 220 offenders have been convicted or took plea deals, and dozens of cases are pending.

They were pastors. Ministers.

Youth pastors. Sunday school teachers. Deacons. Church volunteers.


How we did this story:

In 2007, victims of sexual abuse by Southern Baptist pastors requested creation of a registry containing the names of current and former leaders of Southern Baptist churches who had been convicted of sex crimes or who had been credibly accused.

That didn't happen; the last time any such list was made public was by the Baptist General Convention of Texas.

It contained the names of eight sex criminals.

In 2018, as advocates again pressed SBC officials for such a registry, Houston Chronicle reporters began to search news archives, websites and databases nationwide to compile an archive of allegations of sexual abuse, sexual assault and other serious misconduct involving Southern Baptist pastors and other church officials.

We found complaints made against hundreds of pastors, church officials and volunteers at Southern Baptist churches nationwide.

We focused our search on the 10 years preceding the victims' first call for a registry and on the 10-plus years since.

And we concentrated on individuals who had a documented connection to a church listed in an SBC directory published by a state or national association.
We verified details in hundreds of accounts of abuse by examining federal and state court databases, prison records and official documents from more than 20 states and by searching sex offender registries nationwide.

In Texas, we visited more than a dozen county courthouses.

We interviewed district attorneys and police in more than 40 Texas counties.

We filed dozens of public records requests in Texas and nationwide.

Ultimately, we compiled information on 380 credibly accused officials in Southern Baptist churches, including pastors, deacons, Sunday school teachers and volunteers.

We verified that about 220 had been convicted of sex crimes or received deferred prosecutions in plea deals and sent letters to all of them soliciting their responses to summaries we compiled.

We received written responses from more than 30 and interviewed three in Texas prisons.

Of the 220, more than 90 remain in prison and another 100 are still registered sex offenders.

Find our records that relate to those convicted or forced to register as sex offenders at HoustonChronicle.com/AbuseofFaith.

Nearly 100 are still held in prisons stretching from Sacramento County, Calif., to Hillsborough County, Fla., state and federal records show.

Scores of others cut deals and served no time.

More than 100 are registered sex offenders. Some still work in Southern Baptist churches today.

Journalists in the two newsrooms spent more than six months reviewing thousands of pages of court, prison and police records and conducting hundreds of interviews.

They built a database of former leaders in Southern Baptist churches who have been convicted of sex crimes.


The investigation reveals that:

At least 35 church pastors, employees and volunteers who exhibited predatory behavior were still able to find jobs at churches during the past two decades. In some cases, church leaders apparently failed to alert law enforcement about complaints or to warn other congregations about allegations of misconduct.

Several past presidents and prominent leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention are among those criticized by victims for concealing or mishandling abuse complaints within their own churches or seminaries.

Some registered sex offenders returned to the pulpit. Others remain there, including a Houston preacher who sexually assaulted a teenager and now is the principal officer of a Houston nonprofit that works with student organizations, federal records show. Its name: Touching the Future Today Inc.

Many of the victims were adolescents who were molested, sent explicit photos or texts, exposed to pornography, photographed nude, or repeatedly raped by youth pastors.

Some victims as young as 3 were molested or raped inside pastors' studies and Sunday school classrooms.
A few were adults — women and men who sought pastoral guidance and instead say they were seduced or sexually assaulted.

Heather Schneider was 14 when she was molested in a choir room at Houston's Second Baptist Church, according to criminal and civil court records. 

Her mother, Gwen Casados, said church leaders waited months to fire the attacker, who later pleaded no contest. In response to her lawsuit, church leaders also denied responsibility.

Schneider slit her wrists the day after that attack in 1994, Casados said. She survived, but she died 14 years later from a drug overdose that her mother blames on the trauma.

"I never got her back," Casados said.

Others took decades to come forward, and only after their lives had unraveled.

David Pittman was 12, he says, when a youth minister from his Georgia church first molested him in 1981. 

Two other former members of the man's churches said in interviews that they also were abused by him.

But by the time Pittman spoke out in 2006, it was too late to press criminal charges.

The minister still works at an SBC church.

Pittman won't soon forgive those who have offered prayers but taken no action.

He only recently stopped hating God.

"That is the greatest tragedy of all," he said.

"So many people's faith is murdered. I mean, their faith is slaughtered by these predators.”

August "Augie" Boto, interim president of the SBC's Executive Committee, helped draft the rejection of reform proposals in 2008.

In an interview, he expressed "sorrow" about some of the newspapers' findings but said the convention's leadership can do only so much to stop sexual abuses.

"It would be sorrow if it were 200 or 600" cases, Boto said.

"Sorrow. What we're talking about is criminal.

The fact that criminal activity occurs in a church context is always the basis of grief.

But it's going to happen.

And that statement does not mean that we must be resigned to it."

Gwen Casados, mother of Heather Schneider, says her daughter’s life was ruined by a pageant director at Houston’s Second Baptist Church.
Media: Jon Shapley/Houston Chronicle


'A porous sieve'
At the core of Southern Baptist doctrine is local church autonomy, the idea that each church is independent and self-governing.

It's one of the main reasons that Boto said most of the proposals a decade ago were viewed as flawed by the executive committee because the committee doesn't have the authority to force churches to report sexual abuse to a central registry.

Do your research, rose42,

Stop behaving like a child.

Canuckus Deploracus

The answer really depends on if you mean private Bible study reading, and or Christian liturgical Mass Services that are books approved by the Catholic Church.

At the Catholic Mass you should use the version they use at mass.

At home use wh**ever you want, although the hierarchy obviously would suggest you use one labelled as a "Catholic Edition" and which carries an imprimatur.

An imprimatur, is the official approval from the Vatican Catholic Church Bishop that follows the precepts of Catechism of the Catholic Church.


The King James Version (KIV) is not accepted by the Catholic Church.

Primarily because it is t***slated to fit Anglican Church theology.[/b]

Also that the Six Apocryphal Books in Old Testament were removed by Martin Luther, and several chapters and verse and word changes, that the Catholic Church has continual used for 1,622 years to the present day.

a. www.bustedhalo.com/questionbox/why-doesnt-the-catholic-church-recognize-the-king-james-version-of-the-bible
b. www.bible.ca/b-kjv-only.htm


There is no Catholic edition of the NIV either.

Not to mention these 6 misses Deuterocanonical Books.

Regarding NRSV make sure it is a Catholic edition.

The correct bible that a Catholic is supposed to use is the Latin Vulgate Bible by Saint Jerome.

That is the official bible of the Catholic Church.

That is the one which is used in papal masses.

But if you are looking for bible in your vernacular look for a bible that has:
73 books in it.

An imprimatur sign, is from competent authority (usually a bishop) or Bishop's conference of a country would usually have released/recommended an official t***slation, which is used in the liturgy.

It would be better if you can get hold of that version if your'e reading for liturgical Mass reading's.

The following is a complete list of the t***slations of the Sacred Scriptures that have received the approval of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops since 1983 src:
www.usccb.org/bible/approved-t***slations/

a. Personally I like to read "The Jerusalem Bible," or "The New Jerusalem Bible," because of the commentary and biblical analysis.

When it comes to Bible t***slations, readability and reliability are what count; and on both counts, the original JERUSALEM BIBLE stands alone, or the updated NEW JERUSALEM BIBLE.

A product of the age of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), THE JERUSALEM BIBLE (published in 1966) was the first truly modern Bible for Catholics.

Using definitive original language texts such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, biblical scholars of L'École Biblique in Jerusalem produced a meticulously accurate, wonderfully readable French t***slation of the complete canon of Scripture (La Bible de Jérusalem).

From this French original came the English edition, edited by renowned Bible scholar Alexander Jones.

b. “My second personal favorite version is the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition."
(RSVCE)

c. Deacon Stephen F. Miletic, professor of scripture at Franciscan University of Steubenville, has several recommendations, beginning with the Didache Bible, published by Ignatius Press.

The Didache Bible (RSV2CE) presents extensive commentaries, based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for each of the books of the Holy Bible.  

The Didache Bible also includes numerous apologetical inserts to assist the reader in understanding the Church’s teachings on current issues.

After publishing the books of The Didache Series, Midwest Theological Forum set out to fill a need for a Catholic edition of Sacred Scripture with explanatory and apologetical commentaries based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The publication of the Didache Bible, based on these principles, fulfills the desire of Pope St. John Paul II as expressed in his Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum:
https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2FIDEI.HTM
w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/.../hf_jp-ii_apc_19921011_fidei-depositum.html

The Catechism of the Catholic Church . . . is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium.

I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith. (no. IV). It's worth the read.
w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/.../hf_jp-ii_apc_19921011_fidei-depositum.html

The Didache Bible (RSV2CE) is a valuable resource for students and those participating in Scripture studies.
It's ideal for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of the Catholic faith and intended to be accessible by all Catholics in its level of scriptural scholarship.  

It contains a running commentary on Scripture, based on and informed by the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

“It’s balanced, it’s true, it’s actually quite good,” Deacon Miletic said.

d. Fourthy, Saint Jerome's T***slation from the Greek to the Latin, and to the English version. Reminiscent of the Douay-Rheims bible, which was the standard Catholic version for hundreds of years.

Make sure it is a Catholic edition to get the full 73 books, versus the 66 books, missing Chapters and verses in the Protestant Bible.

e. “Among these are the New American Bible,
the Revised Standard Version,
the New Revised Standard Version,

the New Jerusalem Bible,
the Contemporary English Bible,
and the Good News Bible.

The first three of these uses a kind of t***slation called ‘formal equivalence.’

And the last three use a more informal style called ‘dynamic equivalence.’

Two alternatives, Martignoni points out, are the Navarre New Testament, which has “good solid commentary,” or the Ignatius Study Bible.

Canuckus Deploracus,

When choosing your next Bible, It's all in the details.

Know your Bible criteria before choosing ?
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-152940-1.html

1 Timothy 6:20
Guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge.

Some thoughts on principles and English t***slations Bibles, but “best” is just not something that can be said because of all the 4,500 Bible variations and t***slations.

How best to choose your English t***slation Bible criteria

When Choosing your next Bible learn the details.
a. Bible Canon,
b. T***slation Principle,
c. Formal Equivalence,
d. Dynamic Equivalence,
e. Paraphrase, and
f. Biblical Greek T***slation Text Type.

Which Greek is the most reliable.

a. The Septuagint abbreviation (LXX), e.g. Alexandrian text-type
Koine Greek, version which was written around 300 B.C. to the 200 A.D..


b. The Byzantine text-type (also called Majority Text, Traditional Text, Ecclesiastical Text, Constantinopolitan Text, Antiocheian Text, or Syrian Text)
The Democratic method, of textual criticism that uses the “majority rules”

Medieval Greek, also known as Byzantine Greek, is the stage of the Greek language between the end of Classical antiquity in the 3rd– centuries and the end of the Middle Ages 1400 A.D, conventionally dated to the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople in 1453.

What is the Majority Text method?
The Democratic method, of textual criticism that uses the “majority rules”
https://www.gotquestions.org/majority-text.html

c. Textus Receptus (Latin: "Received Text") The basis for the German Lutheran Bible and The King James Version (KIV) Greek text that goes back to the Bible t***slation edition of Erasmus A.D. 1500 and the several late Greek Textus Receptus, Theodotion’s t***slation and Jewish Masoretic Text manuscripts he used.

The biblical Greek Textus Receptus constituted the t***slation-base for the original German Luther Bible, the t***slation of the extant New Testament into English by William Tyndale, The King James (KIV) Version in 1611 and in 1769. The Spanish Reina-Valera t***slation, and most Reformation-era New Testament KIV t***slations, is a copy of Theodotion’s t***slation from the Hebrew, which more closely resembles the Masoretic Text.

The English Standard Version (ESV) is an Majority Text T***slation. English t***slation of the Bible published in 2001 by Crossway. It is a revision of the Revised Standard Version that employs an "essentially literal" democratic rule t***slation philosophy.

Thus “Western text” is not the only misnomer: the geographical labels of the other text types should be considered with suspicion, too. Some scholars prefer to refer to the text types as “textual clusters.”

The [b]Textus Receptus is very similar to the Majority Text,[b] but there are in fact hundreds of differences between the Majority Text and the Textus Receptus.

The Textus Receptus was compiled and edited by Erasmus in the 16th century. Erasmus used several Greek manuscripts, which were eastern Greek Byzantine in nature.

And uses The Byzantine text-type (also called Majority Text, Traditional Text, Ecclesiastical Text, Constantinopolitan Text, Antiocheian Text, or Syrian Text) used in the New Testament is Medieval Greek, also known as Byzantine Greek, and is not Koine Greek. The stage change of the Greek language between the end of Classical antiquity Greek in the 3rd–6th A.D.centuries and the end of the Middle Ages 1400 A.D.(1881).

The two oldest New-and Old Testament Bibles together, Codex Sinaiticus or "Sinai Bible" and the Codex Vaticanus is regarded as the oldest extant manuscript of the Greek Bible 400 A.D.(Old and New Testament).

The phrase, "Erasmus laid the egg that Luther hatched" mean?

Erasmus formed the idea that eventually led to the Reformation but he did not wish to break away from the church. ... many rulers of german states saw the reformation as a way to assert their own authority and dislike of papal control.

d.B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort, on Greek Text T***slation.
They preferred to label the ancestor of the Alexandrian text type the “Neutral text,” meaning that it was relatively unchanged and successively became the more corrupt type of text that they identified as the Alexandrian text.

The so-called Neutral text, chiefly represented by the fourth-century codices Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, formed the basis of the The New Testament in the Medieval Greek, also known as Byzantine Greek, is the stage of the Greek language between the end of Classical antiquity Greek in the 3rd–6th A.D.centuries and the end of the Middle Ages 1400 A.D.(1881).

4. The Jewish Masoretic Greek Text and Jewish Theodotion Greek text (MT or 𝕸) is the authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text of the 24 books of Tanakh or Mikra. The Hebrew Bible, also called the Tanakh, for Rabbinic Judaism. ...

The Masoretic Greek Text defines the Jewish canon and its precise letter-text, with its vocalization and accentuation known as the Masorah.

The Masoretes were rabbis who made it their special work to correct the faults that had crept into the text of the Old Testament Talmud during the Babylonian captivity, and to prevent, for the future, its being corrupted by any alteration.

They first separated the apocryphal from the canonical books, and divided the latter into twenty-two books, being the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet. Then they divided each book into sections and verses.

There is a great difference of opinion as to when the Masoretic Text was written, but it was probably accomplished in the 10th -11th century.

Several editions existed, varying considerably, but the received and authoritative text is that of Jacob ben-chayim ibn Adonijah, who carefully sifted and arranged the previous works on the subject. It was published in 1524.

Although the existing copies of the Masoretic Text date back only to the tenth century, two other important textual evidences bolster the confidence of textual critics that it is accurate.

a. Oregenes Adamantius, Greek T***slation Hexapla (“Sixfold”) Text. The multiplication of versions doubtless proved to be a source of increasing confusion in the 3rd century early historians assign his work of t***slation to c. 180–190 A.D. Which is a synopsis of six versions of the Jewish Old Testament.

Origen is a Catholic Church Father was an early Christian scholar, ascetic, and theologian. He was a prolific writer who wrote roughly 2,000 treatises in multiple branches of theology, including textual criticism, biblical exegesis and biblical hermeneutics, homiletics, and spirituality. He was one of the most influential figures in early Christian theology, apologetics, and asceticism. He has been described as "the greatest genius the early church ever produced.”

b. Theodotion, Greek T***slation Hexapla text, Early historians assign his work of t***slation to 230 and 240 A.D., Hellenistic Jewish scholar and linguist and author of a Greek t***slation of the Old Testament.

Theodotion’s Greek T***slation Text version appeared in the sixth column of Origen’s Hexapla, a 3rd-century version of the Old Testament presenting six Greek and Hebrew texts in parallel columns.

It is not so much an independent t***slation as a revision of the Septuagint.
But the earliest Greek t***slation, dating in part from the 3rd century BC — supplying its omissions.

Peculiar Hebrew words are not t***slated but t***sliterated into Greek letters, either in order to avoid conjectural readings or to give an authentic colour to the version.

The popularity of Theodotion’s t***slation in the early church can be deduced from its fragments that fill gaps in the Septuagint text of Jeremiah and from its version of Daniel that replaces the Septuagint t***slation.

It was quoted in the Shepherd of Hermas and by the Christian apologist Justin Martyr.

The replacement of Daniel was so thorough that only two manuscripts (one of about the 3rd century and one of the 11th century) of the Greek Old Testament contain the Septuagint version.

Theodotion’s version of Daniel may go back to an older t***slation. The extant manuscripts of the Theodotion text were published in 1875.

c. The t***slation of Symmachus Greek T***slation 6th century work. Another Greek t***slation an otherwise unknown scholar, who made use of his predecessors. His influence was small, other than that, his t***slation is known largely through fragments of the Hexapla.

d. The Aleppo Greek Text (Hebrew: כֶּתֶר אֲרָם צוֹבָא Keter Aram Tzova or Crown of Aleppo) is a medieval bound manuscript of the Hebrew Bible. The codex was written in the city of Tiberias, in what is currently northern Israel, in the 10th century A.D., and was endorsed for its accuracy by Maimonides.

The oldest extant manuscripts date from around the 9th century. The Aleppo text Codex (once the oldest-known complete copy but now missing the Torah) dates from the 10th century. The Masoretic Text defines the Jewish canon and its precise letter-text, with its vocalization and accentuation known as the Masorah.

That my friends is the short and sweet of the origin of the Bible, and the t***slations of the Old and New Testament bible.

10/16/2016 What is the best Catholic Bible version and Bible criteria for choosing the Bible for you ? (Part 3)

When Choosing your next Bible learn the details.
Bible Canon, T***slation Principle, Formal Equivalence, Dynamic Equivalence, Paraphrase, and Biblical Greek T***slation Text Type.


Joe Fessenden
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-Catholic-Bible-version

This is especially helpful with some of the more confusing passages. Here are some of the commentaries I find particularly handy.

1. The Great Commentary of Cornelius A' Lapide (Awesome name, huh - he didn’t actually call it that, he wasn’t THAT egotistical) -
This one is a wonderful devotional starter (and it’s available free online).

2. Catena Aurea (at least for the Gospels) - This is Thomas Aquinas compilation of comments from the Church Fathers on the Gospels in a verse by verse format.

3. Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture - This is a contemporary scholarly commentary if you want real solid contemporary research.


03/14/2016 What is the difference between the King James bible and the Roman Catholic version?

Ian MacKinnell,
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-King-James-bible-and-the-Roman-Catholic-version

What most people think of as the King James Bible (KJB) is not the Bible published under King James, but a later cut-down edition of it.

In the 1600s it was normal for the KJB to include the books of the Apocrypha, which were regarded as edifying books, though not authoritative, in the Anglican Church.

The Puritans ruled against the Apocrypha being included in the KJB, and then later - when cheaper printing allowed mass production of bibles for popular use - it was easier (cheaper) to print the KJB without the Apocrypha, which especially appealed to the growing number of non-Anglican Protestants and became the common practice.

It is still quite possible to buy a KJB with Apocrypha:

So the original KJB included roughly all the books that are found in Catholic Bibles, though separating the Apocryphal books from the rest of the Old Testament.

The usual versions of the KJB printed today, by leaving out the Apocrypha, are more obviously different to Catholic versions of the Bible by having fewer books.

Most readers of the KJB would not even be aware that the original KJB contained more books than their bibles do.

But it is the KJB that effectively moved away from the Apocrypha over time, not the Catholic bible.

There is no single Catholic t***slation of the Bible into English. Indeed, there are Catholic editions of some descendants of the KJB and other popular "Protestant" t***slations: both the "Good News for Modern Man" and the Revised Standard Version of the Bible have Catholic editions including the Apocrypha.

The New English Bible also came in editions with the Apocrypha, as do various newer t***slations.

As Catholics do use several English versions of the Bible also used by Protestants, as noted above, there really is no textual difference between "Catholic" and "Protestant" bibles other than the definition of the canon (the list of authoritative books).

As far as I am aware, Catholics do not use the KJB because there were more modern t***slations available when the Catholic Churches in America, the UK, Canada, Australia, etc took up worship in English (especially after Vatican 2 which coincided with the Catholic t***slation called the Jerusalem Bible).

So the KJB has never had the traditional place within English-speaking Catholicism that it does in the English-speaking Protestant churches, but they do use some of the same English versions as Protestants.


For use in the Liturgy (that is, at Mass):
Revised Standard Version
Jerusalem Bible
New Jerusalem Bible*
New Revised Standard Version*
Grail Psalter (1963)
Grail Psalter (revised 1993)*

For the Divine Office:
Jerusalem Bible
Knox Bible
New English Bible
Revised Standard Version
The Grail Psalter (1963) is used for the Psalms.
Canticles are taken from:
Grail Psalter
Jerusalem Bible
Revised Standard Version

These versions may only be used for individual local celebrations and may not be used to produce a Lectionary (full set of readings)

The question of references the Codex Sinaiticus, which was discovered by Constantin von Tischendorf.

In its discovered form, it consisted of about one-half of the Old Testament and also the New Testament.

So, as a present day manuscript it is not a complete Bible.

Its Old Testament is considered to be based upon the Septuagint (LXX).

It should be noted that that the Dead Sea scrolls contain Old Testament manuscripts that are much older than the Sinaiticus.

Count Tischendorf considered the Sinaiticus to be the oldest copy of the Bible.

However, the Codex Vaticanus, is generally considered to be a few years older.

As to the alleged 14,800 differences between this manuscript and the King James Bible:

* There is a bit less than 1200 years difference in their production.

* To respond to the question, as written, one would have to identify the actual manuscript used by the KJV for each difference.

* Alleged differences between the various Biblical manuscripts of this magnitude generally are not of consequence as to the actual text and are often simple scribal errors which can easily be recognized.

Does the oldest text show the original just because it is old ?

Is the Alexandrian Text what the Bible Writers wrote ?

a. Codex-Sinaiticus, 4th century Bible Manuscript
http://CodexSinaiticus,4th-century-biblical-manuscript

b. Codex-Sinaiticus, Britannica.com
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Codex-Sinaiticus

c. The Masoretic Text ? Masoretic text, Jewish Bible
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Masoretic-text

d. biblical literature - New Testament canon, texts, and versions
https://www.britannica.com/topic/biblical-literature/New-Testament-canon-texts-and-versions

(End Part 3)

10/16/2016 What is the best Catholic Bible version and Bible criteria for choosing the Bible for you ? (Part 2)

When Choosing your next Bible learn the details.
Bible Canon, T***slation Principle, Formal Equivalence, Dynamic Equivalence, Paraphrase, and Biblical Greek T***slation Text Type.


Joe Fessenden
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-Catholic-Bible-version

The Greek text as presented is what biblical scholars refer to as the "critical text". The critical text is an eclectic text compiled by a committee that compares readings from a large number of manuscripts in order to determine which reading is most likely to be closest to the original.

4. The Masoretic Greek Text and Theodotion Greek text (MT or 𝕸) is the [/b]authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text[/b] of the 24 books of Tanakh for Rabbinic Judaism. ... The Masoretic Text defines the Jewish canon and its precise letter-text, with its vocalization and accentuation known as the Masorah.

The Masoretes were rabbis who made it their special work to correct the faults that had crept into the text of the Old Testament during the Babylonian captivity, and to prevent, for the future, its being corrupted by any alteration.

They first separated the apocryphal from the canonical books, and divided the latter into twenty-two books, being the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet. Then they divided each book into sections and verses.

There is a great difference of opinion as to when the Masoretic Text was written, but it was probably accomplished in the 10th -11th century.

Several editions existed, varying considerably, but the received and authoritative text is that of Jacob ben-chayim ibn Adonijah, who carefully sifted and arranged the previous works on the subject. It was published in 1524.

Although the existing copies of the Masoretic Text date back only to the tenth century, two other important textual evidences bolster the confidence of textual critics that it is accurate.

The first is the successive discoveries of manuscripts at Qumran by the Dead Sea since 1947. These revealed portions of manuscripts several centuries older than any previously known.

The second is the comparison of the Masoretic text to the Greek t***slation called the Septuagint (or LXX), which was written around 200-150 B.C. The oldest existing manuscripts date back to the fourth century A.D.

Both the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal an amazing consistency with the Masoretic Text, assuring us that God was indeed divinely and sovereignly protecting His Word through thousands of years of copying and t***slating.


b. Oregenes Adamantius, Greek T***slation Hexapla (“Sixfold”) Text. The multiplication of versions doubtless proved to be a source of increasing confusion in the 3rd century early historians assign his work of t***slation to c. 180–190 A.D. Which is a synopsis of six versions of the Old Testament.

Origen is a Catholic Church Father was an early Christian scholar, ascetic, and theologian. He was a prolific writer who wrote roughly 2,000 treatises in multiple branches of theology, including textual criticism, biblical exegesis and biblical hermeneutics, homiletics, and spirituality. He was one of the most influential figures in early Christian theology, apologetics, and asceticism. '

He has been described as "the greatest genius the early church ever produced.”

c. Theodotion, Greek T***slation Hexapla text, Early historians assign his work of t***slation to 230 and 240 CE, Hellenistic Jewish scholar and linguist and author of a Greek t***slation of the Old Testament.

Theodotion’s Greek T***slation Text version appeared in the sixth column of Origen’s Hexapla, a 3rd-century version of the Old Testament presenting six Greek and Hebrew texts in parallel columns.

It is not so much an independent t***slation as a revision of the Septuagint— But the earliest Greek t***slation, dating in part from the 3rd century BC—supplying its omissions.

Peculiar Hebrew words are not t***slated but t***sliterated into Greek letters, either in order to avoid conjectural readings or to give an authentic colour to the version.

The popularity of Theodotion’s t***slation in the early church can be deduced from its fragments that fill gaps in the Septuagint text of Jeremiah and from its version of Daniel that replaces the Septuagint t***slation.

It was quoted in the 2nd century in "The Shepherd of Hermas and by the Christian apologist Justin Martyr.

The replacement of Daniel was so thorough that only two manuscripts (one of about the 3rd century and one of the 11th century) of the Greek Old Testament contain the Septuagint version.

The Theodotion’s version of Daniel may go back to an older t***slation. The extant manuscripts of the Theodotion text were published in 1875.


d. The t***slation of Symmachus Greek T***slation 6th century work. Another Greek t***slation an otherwise unknown scholar, who made use of his predecessors. His influence was small, other than that, his t***slation is known largely through fragments of the Hexapla.

e. The Aleppo Greek Text (Hebrew: כֶּתֶר אֲרָם צוֹבָא Keter Aram Tzova or Crown of Aleppo) is a medieval bound manuscript of the Hebrew Bible.

The codex was written in the city of Tiberias, in what is currently northern Israel, in the 10th century C.E., and was endorsed for its accuracy by Maimonides.

The oldest extant manuscripts date from around the 9th century. The Aleppo Codex (once the oldest-known complete copy but now missing the Torah) dates from the 10th century.

The Masoretic Text defines the Jewish canon and its precise letter-text, with its vocalization and accentuation known as the Masorah.


A Few Examples:

1. Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE) - older t***slation, formal equivalency

2. New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE) - as the name implies, updated t***slation of RSVCE.

3. New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) - T***slated and published under the authority of the USCCB. Somewhere between formal equivalence and dynamic equivalence.

This is an update to the liturgical Bible for the Church in the United States.

4. Jerusalem Bible/New Jerusalem Bible - These are strict dynamic equivalence t***slations. This is the liturgical Bible for most of the English-speaking world.

These are a little unique because it is influenced by a prior French t***slation from the École Biblique in Jerusalem.

They are, nonetheless, lovely t***slations for devotional purposes, and I have a hardcover copy of both.

5. Douay-Rheims - This is a t***slation from the Latin Vulgate to English. It is handy to see what the tradition of the Church and the Latin used for centuries for liturgical purposes said.


My comments and what I use:

I use a software package for my deep work, so I am able to do a lot of cross referencing.

Any Scripture scholar (of which I am not one - just a student) does extensive cross-referencing in t***slations as well as working with original texts/manuscripts (which have their own set of challenges).

My starting point is usually NRSV.

I will say that there are some issues I have with the NRSV that make it require a little care.

My go-to example is the fact that “Son of Man” is rendered as “Human Being” in Daniel, which removes some of the linguistic parallels between Christ and that book.

Catholics are perfectly happy using any good t***slation of Scripture, and we usually look quite a bit to modern t***slations based on careful scholarship and text criticism of original languages.

When I am doing research,
I frequently have several t***slations in front of me including NABRE, RSV, NRSV, Vulgate (both Clementine and New), Douay-Rheims (to see what the Latin text said), and I sometimes reference Jerusalem and New Jerusalem (even though both are a little outdated and use dynamic equivalence).

I also have references to original Greek and English texts (in a few different versions) available.


Some others I reference when I need more for comparison:
Lexham English Bible (LEB), The Cambridge Paragraph Bible of the Authorized English Version (KJV), English Standard Version (ESV), 1901 American Standard Version (ASV), Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (1985), Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic Text (1917), The Holy Bible: King James Version (KJV), The King James Version Apocrypha (KJVA), The Message (Complete OT/NT) (MSG), The NET Bible (NET), Young's Literal T***slation (YLT), The Good News T***slation with Apocrypha.



Commentaries:
Whether you are reading for devotion, bible study, or research, commentaries can be very useful.

Even in devotional reading, I frequently peek at a commentary to get some starting point or other ideas to play with.

(End Part 2)

10/16/2016 What is the best Catholic Bible version and Bible criteria for choosing the Bible for you ? (Part 1)

When Choosing your next Bible learn the details.
Bible Canon, T***slation Principle, Formal Equivalence, Dynamic Equivalence, Paraphrase, and Biblical Greek T***slation Text Type.


Joe Fessenden
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-Catholic-Bible-version

Some thoughts on principles and English t***slations Bibles, but “best” is just not something that can be said because of all the Bible variations and t***slations.

How best to choose your English t***slation Bible criteria

Canon
This is the only really important one without different options.

You should make sure you have a bible that includes the full Canon of Scripture, that is, 46 Old Testament and 27 New Testament books. I am not going to engage in the debate about which canon is correct, here. Since you asked for the Catholic Bible, this is the canon.


T***slation Principle -
There are four basic t***slation principles used in scriptural t***slations. (I’m simplifying a bit, here, but you didn’t ask for a complete treatise on scriptural methodology.)


1. Formal Equivalence -
This is the most precise t***slation. It seeks to render the text as precisely from the original text as possible. There is a sort of formal equivalence on steroids that is a literal t***slation; these take each word and t***slate it then do as little as humanly possible to make sentences form.

2. Dynamic Equivalence -
This takes thoughts and phrases and t***slates them in a more thought-by-thought process. It renders an often easier-to-read bible, but it sometimes lacks the precision necessary for real deep study since specific words are sometimes important.

3. Paraphrase -
This is, as the name implies, a paraphrase of the bible itself. It’s GREAT for stories and readability, less so for study. I include the bible I give to kids as a default in this (The Picture Bible or The Action Bible, depending on age group). This category includes adult bibles ranging from The Message to complete adaptations like The Cotton Patch Gospel.

4. Biblical Text Greek T***slation Type:

1. Septuagint text-type e.g. Alexandrian text-type - Chisianus 45 version which was written around 200-150 B.C.

The Septuagint abbreviation (LXX), the ancient (first centuries BC) Alexandrian t***slation of Jewish scriptures into earliest Greek t***slation Koine Greek, which exists in various manuscript versions of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew.

The Septuagint was presumably made for the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the common language throughout the region. In the most ancient copies of the Bible which contain the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, the Book of Daniel is not the original Septuagint version, but instead is a copy of Theodotion's t***slation from the Hebrew, which more closely resembles the Masoretic text.

1 Timothy 6:20

Guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,

The Alexandrian text-type (also called Neutral or Egyptian), associated with Alexandria, is one of several text-types used in New Testament textual criticism to describe and group the textual characters of biblical manuscripts.

The Vatican Apostolic Library (Latin: Bibliotheca Apostolica Vaticana, more commonly called the Vatican Library is the library of the Holy See, located in Vatican City.

Formally established in 1475, although it is much older, it is one of the oldest libraries in the world and contains one of the most significant collections of historical texts.

It has 75,000 codices from throughout history, as well as 1.1 million printed books, which include some 8,500 incunabula.

In March 2014, the Vatican Library began an initial four-year project of digitising its collection of manuscripts, to be made available online.

The Vatican Secret Archives were separated from the library at the beginning of the 17th century; they contain another 150,000 items.


2. The Byzantine text-type (also called Majority Text, Traditional Text, Ecclesiastical Text, Constantinopolitan Text, Antiocheian Text, or Syrian Text) is one of several text-types used in textual criticism to describe the textual character of Greek New Testament manuscripts.

What is the Majority Text? The Democratic method, of textual criticism that uses the “majority rules”
https://www.gotquestions.org/majority-text.html

The Greek text as presented is what biblical scholars refer to as the "critical text". The critical text is an eclectic text compiled by a committee that compares readings from a large number of manuscripts in order to determine which reading is most likely to be closest to the original.

3. Textus Receptus (Latin: "Received Text") is the name given to the succession of printed Greek texts of the New Testament. ... Stanley Porter explains, "The Textus Receptus is any form of the Greek text that goes back to the edition of Erasmus and the several late manuscripts he used.

The biblical Textus Receptus constituted the t***slation-base for the original German Luther Bible, the t***slation of the extant New Testament into English by William Tyndale, the King James Version in 1611 and in 1769. The Spanish Reina-Valera t***slation, and most Reformation-era New Testament KIV t***slations is a copy of Theodotion's t***slation from the Hebrew, which more closely resembles the Masoretic Text.

The English Standard Version (ESV) is an Majority Text T***slation. English t***slation of the Bible published in 2001 by Crossway. It is a revision of the Revised Standard Version that employs an "essentially literal" democratic t***slation philosophy.

B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort, Greek Text T***slation.
They preferred to label the ancestor of the Alexandrian text type the “Neutral text,” meaning that it was relatively unchanged and successively became the more corrupt type of text that they identified as the Alexandrian text.

The so-called Neutral text, chiefly represented by the fourth-century codices Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, formed the basis of their The New Testament in the Original Greek (1881).

This Bible Greek Text edition—which in Westcott and Hort’s view represented the most accurate and authentic version of the New Testament in the original language available in their day—furnished the death blow to the traditional text published by Erasmus in 1516, also known as Textus Receptus (the “received text”), which had dominated Greek editions and, indirectly, Bible t***slations (most famously the King James Version) for hundreds of years.

Although the theory of text types still prevails in current text-critical practice, some scholars have recently called to abandon the concept altogether in light of new computer-assisted methods for determining manuscript relationships in a more exact way.

To be sure, there is already a consensus that the various geographic locations traditionally assigned to the text types are incorrect and misleading.

The Greek text as presented is what biblical scholars refer to as the "critical text". The critical text is an eclectic text compiled by a committee that compares readings from a large number of manuscripts in order to determine which reading is most likely to be closest to the original.

Thus “Western text” is not the only misnomer: the geographical labels of the other text types should be considered with suspicion, too. Some scholars prefer to refer to the text types as “textual clusters.”

The Textus Receptus is very similar to the Majority Text, but there are in fact hundreds of differences between the Majority Text and the Textus Receptus.

The Textus Receptus was compiled and edited by Erasmus in the 16th century. Erasmus used several Greek manuscripts, which were eastern / Byzantine in nature.

This explains why the Textus Receptus is very similar to the Majority Text. However, Erasmus by no means had access to all of the Greek manuscripts, so there was no way he could develop a true Majority Text.

The Textus Receptus is based on a very limited number of manuscripts, all of them eastern, and all of them dating to around the 12th century. As a result, compared to the Electic Text and the Majority Text, the Textus Receptus is far less likely to have the most accurate reading.

In the Novum Testamentum Graece (The New Testament KIV in Greek) these differences are known as ‘varients' methods are used to conclude which reading is most likely the original one. This process of determining the most likely reading is known as 'text criticism.’

(End Part 1)

Padre Mike,

We have been given a glimpse a visual understanding what hell is and what torments their souls are experiencing in Hell.

The three children all viewed the fires of Hell in their vision at Fatima Portugal.

On July 13, 1917, Our Lady of Fatima Showed a Vision of Hell and ...
www.ncregister.com/.../fatima-july-13-apparition-ways-to-overcome-a-frightening-vis...

Essentials: The Facts: Sister Lucy of Fatima Describes the Vision of Hell
http://archive.fatima.org/essentials/facts/hell.asp

The Dogma of Hell …3 terrifying and similar visions of hell! They are ...
https://mysticpost.com/.../the-dogma-of-hell-3-terrifying-and-similar-visions-of-hell-t...

Hell and Fatima - Catholic Stand
www.catholicstand.com/fatima-and-hell/

Fatima children - vision of Hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pjLANd5Vdc

Fatima Hell, The Fatima Children Are Shown Hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZHz0pHEGBI

Roland,

Thanks Roland.

Yes I know of that website, but personally I go to CatholicAnswers.com or do a search on the internet, to get a balanced and authoritative bible answer from different websites, and which could be up to 100 bible's commentaries and documents.

So here is the answer that we have been waiting for, and it is explicitly definitive on the scriptural passage subject at hand.

In Mark 3:28-30, Here is what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit, actually is, and actually say's ?

28 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and wh**ever blasphemies they utter,
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 For they the Pharisees were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.” "And calling the Holy Spirit an unclean spirit.”

This is what actually "Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit" is.

And what the Bible actually specifically say's, is the Jewish Pharisees is calling the Holy Spirt un-Clean, from within Jesus Christ.

Here is what constitutes Christian Catholic Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFPzaOyGuJM

In Matthew 12:31-32, It does not explain what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is ?

31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit

33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit.
34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.


In Luke 12:10, It does not explain what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is ?

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.


And that is what the term sin should be used in context e.g."Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit"

What rose42, and they the Berean Church actually think is incorrect.

e.g.
What they think and know, is a completely different subject, and is in error, on "Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit,"

That rose42, her Berean Church opinion's on this subject is a bunch of "Hog-Wallop" nonsense ?

Amen, Amen, Let it be so, I believe, Amen Amen.

Rose42,

So you want to take the ... low road, ... You should have bow-out gracefully on this post thread...

Do you really want to air out more of the FRS Forum dirty laundry... here on this Post thread ?

And argue from a disadvantage argument point of view? Rose42 When your wrong, your just plain dead wrong... and stop being a hypocritical gluteus maximus derriere.


Rose42, admit it, you like to argue, for the sake of arguing, to prove your Berean Church personal superior point of view.

Or wh**ever vendetta and inflammatory remarks that you have against my Catholic faith and My Catholic Church.

You are just using and pushing the same old Protestant Man-Made Reformation opinions, that ended 502 years ago, and are still promoting and purveying that same Berean evangelistic attitude (Compost) on me and others on the OPP FRS Forum.


Rose42,
Get a Life, rose, evangelize and argue with some-one else.

I don's care or give a nat's behind, what your'e pushing... and arguing about...

Your confused and don't know what you are talking about !

Tell me do you always throw horse-compost in every religious discussion, and accuse others of religious sin ?

You know nothing of "Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit," what it actually is, and is taught ?

You throw out Religious terms and accusations, liberally like l*****t political Democrats...


rose42,
You are going to be schooled once again for your biblical errors... and self-interpreting of biblical scripture.

So go and bother some-one else, with your Berean Church religious man-Made theology and Philosophy and self-interpreting New Testament Bible hang-ups.


Here is the main problem with you and your Berean Church, it is the emphasis and teaching on Saint Paul's letters, . . .

Versus the actual words that Jesus Christ and what he actually spoke in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke John, and in the Acts of the Apostles.

Somehow there is a lack of Berean Church focus on these Gospel books. Get it....

Shouldn't your Berean Church be studying the actual words and instructions of Jesus Christ... ?

And not focusing on the letters of Saint Paul who wrote these letters to admonish these problematic churches that he founded.

The letters of Saint Paul are just that, letters they are not the Bible Gospels, nor are they "New Gospels" invented by your Berean Church denomination.

Seems to me the Berean Church, is still continuing on with Saint Paul's problematic Churches and the divisional schismatic denominationalism, with-in the present day context of division and schisms of the Berean Church.

The Berean Church, can't agree upon what teachings, are even in the Bible, your Berean Churches are so fractured, and continually divide and constantly argue among your-selves.

Good lord, and you have the audacity to argue with a 1,987 year old Catholic Church, Cannon and theology commanded by Jesus Christ.

The Berean church is less than 150 years old, and with-in the Christadelphians/Berean church circles.

In Saint Peters letter, 2 Peter 3:14-17, Peter cautions the Catholic Christian on Saint Pauls Letters.

Peters Final Words:
14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.
15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
16 As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
And to strengthen these founded churches that were having major Christian Catholic problems as to what Jesus taught the Apostles taught and Saint Paul instructed these fledgling churches.

Somehow, your personal Berean Church compost does not stink... and you and they, do not walk on water... or walk the Christian walk, or talk the Christian talk...

Hypocritical Berean Church rhetoric... and your modernistic desire to reflect the attitude of the Bereans in Acts 17, in the 1st century A.D. committing themselves to "searching the scriptures daily."

Me presumes, a ridiculous Berean Church Hypocrisy and bloviating by calling yourselves a modernistic Relativism terminology. The Berean Church at the same time, don't you think.


In 2 Peter 2:20-22, Saint Peter cautions the faithful against Saint Paul's letters with discernment and Biblical understanding.

20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


rose42,
I gave you my opinions and the deplorable actions that you took and have taken with me and your Beraen church, "Holier-Than-Thou" attitude on the FRS Forum.

You made it your own problems, you wallow in your own Berean Church mire...

Deal with your consequences, after you crap on others and myself, on my OPP political, social and religious values.


Rose42,
You don't get it, what it takes to be a real Christian, instead you and others are speaking ill-will and being a purveyor of H**e-speech against others, with personal bigoted slander and religious intolerant prejudices against my Catholic faith.

And that's what you actually have done, espoused H**e-Speech.

H**e-Speech, even with lip-stick on it, is still H**e-speech.

So stop lecturing others and myself, and condoning the H**e-Speech that you and others of the 5 Horse-men and Horse women of the Protestant Apocalypse mob, who taunted, ridiculed and are pervader of evil on the FRS Forum.


Rose42,
Objective speaking you don't know what your'e talking about on, Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit, which is mentioned in the Gospels three times ?

Here is what constitutes Christian Catholic Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFPzaOyGuJM

In Matthew 12:31-32, It does not explain what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is ?
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.


In Luke 12:10, It does not explain what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit is ?
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.


In Mark 3:28-30, Here is what Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit, actually is ?
28 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and wh**ever blasphemies they utter,
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 For they the Pharisees were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.” "And calling the Holy Spirit an unclean spirit.”


What you and they the Berean Church actually think, what they know, is a completely different, and in error, on Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit, and Berean Church opinion's is a bunch of "Hog-Wallop" nonsense ?

What actually is "Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit" is, and what the Bible actually specifically say's, is calling the Holy Spirt un-Clean within Jesus Christ.

And that my ill-informed Berean Church member is the sin of "Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit."

You have men and women in your Berean Church that professed the evilness of the Pharisee, telling Jesus that he has an unclean spirit within him, an evil unclean demon spirit with-in him.

And now you have the audacity to lecture me, as to your Berean Church knowledge, to judge me and offend me, and telling me that I have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit and blasphemed Jesus Christ.

lady,
Again you are purely devious, evil and vile person.

And know nothing of love, your hatred and inexcusable behavior is astounding and ridiculous incredibly gullible and naive, to say the least.


Here is what Saint Paul says in: 1 Corinthians 4:3-6 And who are you to judge others.

3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human [a]court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

Fools for Christ’s Sake
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively t***sferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.


Jesus Christ's True-Church the Catholic Universal Church, was founded and established by Jesus Christ, His Apostles, and the Early Church Fathers passed down for 20 centuries Jesus Christ's teachings and Instructions for the last 20 Centuries.

Lady, you have some damnable, inexcusable personal and Berean Church hutzpa... bodacious false biblical belief's and attitude's.

The Beraen Church is nothing but a bunch of 18th century wandering religious Man-Made self-interpreting ideologues.

That change their religious schismatic theology values, from one country to another; Scotland, to England and to the United States and falsely evangelizing to peoples around the world.

You Beraen Churches can't even formulate a Religious Creed, or Religious tradition, that you can agree upon anything Christian and the precepts on what Jesus Christ taught in the gospels and Acts of the Apostles.

You can't even agree upon what Jesus Christ taught instituted, e.g. the 7 Sacraments and which Jesus instructed his Apostles for three and one-half years and passed down through His church for 1,987 years.

Your Beraen Church's, can't even agree-upon what the 11 Apostles have unitedly have taught in the 4 Gospels and Acts of the Apostles.

Which was also taught to the Early Church Patristic Fathers, and did not change from Jesus Christ instructions to our present age 20 centuries later...

This same Church that Jesus taught - the Apostolic succession from the 11 Apostles instructions have been passed down through the Catholic-Universal Church for 1,987 years to the present day.


Your Berean Church was founded Bereans (also called Beroeans, Barclayans or Barclayites) were a Protestant sect following former Scottish Calvinistic-Presbyterian minister John Barclay (1734-1798).

Barclay religious beliefs was actually a man-Made Protestant Calvinistic-Presbyterian schismatic break-off's heretical sect's and co-joined withe the English Congregationalists church, and then broke-off again with that heretical sect after 1798 when Barclay died.

So for about 50 years in the middle of the 19th century years after Barclay's death, your fledgling Protestant denomination was floundering to extinction. Until John Thomas rename the Berean church "Christadelphian"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereans

They the Bereans/Christadelphians Church deny the Doctrine of the Trinity.

Which is a central tenet of orthodox Christianity, and this refusal to recognize the triune nature of God has resulted in a major impasse between the Christadelphians/Berean Christadelphians and the Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Churches.


So what is the difference between heresy and apostasy?

A Heresy is rejection of a doctrine that a Church considered to be essential. ... e.g. Roman Catholic theology considers formal schismatics to be outside the Church, understanding by "formal schismatics" "persons who, knowing the true nature of the Church, have personally and deliberately committed the sin of schism".

A heretic is a proponent of such claims or beliefs. Heresy is distinct from both apostasy, which is the explicit renunciation of one's religion, principles or cause, and blasphemy, which is an impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.

Apostasy in Christianity is the rejection of Christianity by someone who formerly was a Christian. The term apostasy comes from the Greek word apostasia ("ἀποστασία") meaning defection, departure, revolt or r*******n. It has been described as "a willful falling away from, or r*******n against, Christianity.

The Great Apostasy is a concept within Christianity, identifiable at least from the time of Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation, to describe a perception that the early apostolic Church has fallen away from the original faith founded by Jesus and promulgated through his twelve Apostles and early Church Patristic fathers.

In Roman Catholic Church canon law, an act of schism, like an act of apostasy or heresy, automatically brings the penalty of excommunication on the individual who commits it.

rose42,
So I don't have to like you or correspond to you, and nor do I have to respect your un-Christian Beran Church bigoted attitude towards me and others on the OPP FRS Forum.

rose42,
You reaped what you sow... And wallow in the mire.

Amen, Amen, Let it be so, I believe, Amen Amen.