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Apr 2, 2014 00:38:25   #
No shocker there! I think some live here, they have a nice little bed, a frig, and all the company they can handle.

AuntiE wrote:
And some miss their appointment while on OPP. :shock: :mrgreen: :twisted:
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Apr 2, 2014 00:24:56   #
AuntiE wrote:
Would that be the shared "brains " you all pass among yourselves?


AuntiE, are you saying that men have a single brain that they schedule for use? Now that explains a lot of things! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Apr 1, 2014 23:35:22   #
I do not believe in luck or that playing the lotto is a way to get wealthy. It is by work, good investments, and through savings. Not spending or living on credit cards. It probably will be shocker, but I do not owe a penny to anyone. I buy everything with cash. Not plastic or sign on the dotted line. That requires me to plan large purchases such as a boat, house, or car. Most is more than my petty cash fund for the month. That was the way I was taught, always put away 10 percent of every dollar you earn. I head today, the average American has only $3,000 in their savings account and less than 40 percent has started a retirement plan.

I like Uncle Murray! Man after my own heart! Two books and all.

BoJester wrote:
I have no problem with any of the mystic arts, but I chose not to subscribe to them.

I would like to find the fortune teller or psychic who can pick the winning lottery numbers, find the missing flight 370, predict the super bowl and count cards like rainman.

If and when that person appears, I could change my mind, but until then, I stick with Uncle Murray and his business slogan, ..."the more you spend, the more you save, and Murray's emporium on the boulevard"

Which sounds a lot like what both political parties claim. Just different priorities

Of course, he does maintain more than one set of books
I have no problem with any of the mystic arts, but... (show quote)
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Apr 1, 2014 23:14:50   #
Hello Bo,

You are right about the tax increase by President Bush having to raise taxes. But, by this time I had invested and placed my money into safe places. For those that did not spread their wealth into safe places got hit hard. Even when the stock market took a tumble a few years ago, I was not harmed too bad. I lost only 7 million dollars. It hurt, but more my p***e than anything else. I pay 38 percent in taxes. I plan for it, and budget for it. Even this tax rate is better than when President Regan took office.

I understand you point of view, and I appreciate your comment because you were, as always, a gentleman.

Regarding the first lady and astrologers, you are writing to a Jew. Outside of many Native Americans, we are the most avid believers in mysticism. :lol: In fact, were you aware that Mary Todd Lincoln, Abigail Adams, and Dolly Madison, all believed in astrology and ghosts?

BoJester wrote:
You overlook the fact that reagan RAISED taxes/fees 8 times during his 8 years of ever increasing spending, and forced bush 1 to raise even tax revenue to off-set reagans "voo-doo" economics.

Even stockman realize that reagan was a economic fool and had no idea what he was doing.

If it wasn't in his prepared script, he was lost and had to ask nancy to check with her astrologers for guidance
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Apr 1, 2014 22:59:38   #
I work rescue and one day we had a call about a Mastiff who needed to be socialized and fostered. I brought this dog home with me; he was a big dog! But, he was smart and easy to train. Loving disposition; considering that he had been found tied and the rope had cut into his neck so deep that we had to have it cut out and then stitched. We called him Glücklicher Hund; meaning happy dog. Because he was so happy to have space to run and people to scratch his belly. He went to a neighbor, I see him often. Still happy to see me and his eyes show nothing but love!

no propaganda please wrote:
If I were to have a Setter it would be an Irish RED AND WHITE they are still sane capable hunting dogs with few genetic problems and not so much coat as to be a problem in the field.

Never heard of them? Look them up on the AKC site. and no, I don't have an Irish red and white, but do have a mastiff, great dog but requires space and a strong hand to train them.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:49:18   #
Ms. Ginger,
That is a song we have heard for 7 years. Let me ask you, has he c*********d in his positions? If so, provide me with the proof. A book reference, a url. Anything other than what you have committed to memory because you have heard it so many times. Thank you.

ginger wrote:
On the night he took office and was at all those balls Mitch McConnell and most of the repubs were at a meeting . McConnell was on tv a few days later saying they had decided to ensure that the President would be a one term President. After that anything he wanted done, that we wanted done never got out of the house. The republican written jobs bill, the infrastructure bill, the vets training and jobs bill. All got denied because the President said he liked them and wanted them past soon. It's been a year for the vets bill and over two for the others. If these had been past millions more would be working now.
The wars I was talking about would have been Syria. Yea, it's not over but he has said he will send no troops. Iran. The republicans were pushing hard to bomb the place and not try to talk. Putin has been having long talks with Obama about diplomatic ways to back off. He has already started removing troops.
He has invited the repubs to dinner, to see a screening of Lincoln, to play golf, to lunch. I have heard him repeatedly say he is willing to work with anyone. He even said that today about some problems that have been brought up about the ACA.
On the night he took office and was at all those b... (show quote)
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Apr 1, 2014 22:46:25   #
Was he not also a governor of California for 8 years prior to running for President? I could have sworn that he was elected President during a economic depression, some say that it was as bad as 1920s. In 1982, did we not have a complete turn around and had a bullish market that has not been seen since? I could have sworn that inflation rate fell from a devastating high of 13.5% in 1980 to just 3.2% by 1983. In 1982, when the stock market began a stratospheric ascent that would not really come to an end until 2000 (although there were a few temporary setbacks along the way, most notably a 500-point crash on 19 October 1987). On 12 August 1982, the Dow closed at a low of just 776.92. Before the end of that year, the index had surged past 1000, and by 1987 it peaked at 2722.42. He made it possible for me to triple the inheritance from my father. Taxes were exceptionally high when he assumed office. Tax cuts lay at the heart of the Reagan Revolution. Reagan believed that high taxes threatened individual freedom, suppressed overall economic growth, and encouraged wasteful government spending. Thus the tax reform bill passed in July 1981 was the single most important piece of legislation to emerge from Reagan's first term. That sweeping tax cut slashed federal income tax rates, for taxpayers in every income bracket, by 25% over a three-year period. Public opinion of President Regan remained better than 50 percent throughout his presidency. Reagan's ratings were higher than the averages of his three immediate predecessors -- Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, and Richard Nixon, supporting the arguments of those who contend that one of Reagan's major contributions was to restore confidence in the presidency after the battering it took in the 1970s.
I will just give you the top ten of President Regan's accomplishments, now this is my opinion of his top ten.

1. Ending the Cold War: The Cold War had raged since World War II and c*******m‘s quest for world domination remained an existential threat to the United States when President Reagan took office. Reagan reversed the policy of détente and stood firm against the Soviet Union, calling it the Evil Empire and telling Mikhail Gorbachev to “tear down this wall” in Berlin. He was relentless in pushing his Strategic Defense Initiative and gave aid to rebels battling Soviet-backed Marxists from Nicaragua to Angola. Those efforts were critical in the ultimate collapse of the Soviet empire and essentially ended the Cold War.

2. Reaganomics: Reagan’s mix of across-the-board tax cuts, deregulation, and domestic spending restraint helped fuel an economic boom that lasted two decades. Reagan inherited a misery index (the sum of the inflation and unemployment rates) of 19.99%, and when he left office it had dropped to 9.72%. President Obama take note: Under Reaganomics, 16 million new jobs were created.

3. Revitalizing the GOP and the conservative movement: The Republican Party was at its nadir after Watergate, but Reagan was able to form a winning coalition of fiscal conservatives, family-values v**ers, blue-collar Reagan Democrats and neo-conservative intellectuals and set the stage for future GOP e*******l gains. His free-market, small-government, pro-liberty conservatism helped to revitalize the GOP and his influence resonates today as conservative candidates still invoke Reagan as their standard-bearer.

4. Peace through Strength: The military was diminished during the Carter years, but Reagan reversed that by rebuilding the armed forces. His Peace Through Strength philosophy was manifested by his reviving the B-1 bomber that Carter canceled, starting production of the MX missile, and pushing NATO to deploy Pershing missiles in West Germany. He increased defense spending by more than 40%, increased troop levels, and even got much-needed space parts into the pipeline. Those efforts ensured that America remained a military superpower.

5. Morning in America: It was basically a slogan for Reagan’s 1984 ree******n bid, but Morning in America symbolized a new beginning for the country. Reagan’s jaunty optimism and an economic boom was a much-needed tonic for a country that had experienced the malaise of the Carter years and the traumas of Watergate and Vietnam.

6. Star Wars: Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative was derided by his opponents as being technologically unfeasible, but the mere threat of the U.S. building the system was instrumental in the Soviet Union’s collapse. The successful use of Patriot missile batteries in the first Gulf War proved the critics wrong, and the missile defense system that ensued has lessened the threat of ballistic missiles.

7. Nuclear weapons cuts: Even as massive demonstrations were held in Europe against Reagan’s hawkish stance on nuclear arms, the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty he signed with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev eliminated an entire class of nuclear weapons. He also laid the framework with Gorbachev for the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START), which reduced both countries’ arsenals of nuclear weapons.

8. Voiced values: Reagan gave voice to the values that had served America well—thrift, patriotism, and hard work—and often recounted the wisdom of the Founding Fathers. He also championed the causes of the pro-life and family-values movements that sought to counter the societal upheavals of the 1960s and 1970s.

9. Tax reform: Not only did he cut tax rates, but the Tax Reform Act of 1986 simplified the income-tax code by eliminating many tax shelters, reducing the number of deductions and tax brackets. Reagan’s dream of tax returns fitting on a postcard has been nullified as Congress has regressed and continued to make the tax code more complex, necessitating a new push for reform.

10. Taking on PATCO: Early in his administration, members of the federal air traffic controllers union (PATCO) went on strike, violating a federal regulation. Declaring the strike a “peril to national safety,” Reagan gave the workers an ultimatum and ended up firing more than 11,000 of the controllers, sending a strong signal that union workers needn’t be coddled.

poppabear42 wrote:
skott;
Republicans guru, r.Reagan was an actor, what qualifications did he have?
But most republicans worship him anyway, even though his woman ran his white house, because he was asleep, or busy eating jellybeans.
I think a person with president Obama's qualifications, out weigh the actor's qualifications in every way, and it shows, if you have the nerve to handle the t***h.
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Apr 1, 2014 20:50:19   #
I thought that the poster gave a very good account of the Flood, that it was the entire world and not just regional. There are other, what unbelievers call "myths" that seem to have a wide spread history. It is believed that Nimrod was responsible for the Tower of Babel. Genesis 10:10 states that Babel amongst other cities was the start of Nimrod’s kingdom. Nimrod was the son of Cush (Genesis 10:8), and Cush was the son Ham (Genesis 10:6). Ham was the son of Noah (Genesis 5:32), and therefore Nimrod was three generations from Noah. Our time line however does not go through the line of Ham, but the line of Shem, and therefore the best assumption we can make is to assume it happened during the life span of the person in our time line that is three generations from Noah. The first generation from Noah through the line of Shem, is obviously Shem. The second generation is Arphaxad (Genesis 11:10), and the third generation is Salah, and therefore the assumption can be made that it happened during the life span of of Salah, which is anywhere between 1693 to 2126 AM (Anno Mundi)

Armageddun wrote:
I have often thought that the story of the flood being in so many different cultures while not all exact except for one thing. The flood. As far as different languages and cultures: God dispersed the people at the tower of Babel.
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Apr 1, 2014 19:57:10   #
Has anyone read this?

It seems to be a pretty thorough research on the Ark, complete with passages and references. It is interesting!

Hayden wrote:
The story of the flood is one that is not just from the bible. I drew this information from the following references:
The Epic of Gligamesh. The Academy for Ancient Texts. 18 Sept. 2006
"Flood (mythology)". 17 Sept. 2006. Wikipedia. 18 Sept. 2006
Morford, Mark P.O. and Lenardon, Robert J. Classical Mythology. New York: Oxford Univeristy Press, 2007.
The NIV Study Bible. Zondervan: Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1995
I hope you do not mind a long read.
Nearly every culture in every region of the world has a myth about a great flood that was sent to earth from a higher being in order to punish humans for their t***sgressions and cleanse the world of impurity. In Europe, there are Greek, Germanic, and Irish versions of the tale; there are Sumerian, Hebrew, and Babylonian renditions in the Middle East; the Americas are home to Aztec, Hopi, Incan, and Mayan interpretations; there are Indian, Chinese, and Indonesian versions in the East; and Australian Aboriginal and Polynesian adaptations come out of the Pacific region ("Flood (mythology)"). In particular, the Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumeria, the ancient Greek story of Zeus's flood, and the Judeo-Christian story of Noah and the flood are three of the most prominent versions of the myth that we have record of today.
In the Sumerian flood myth, as explained in the eleventh tablet of The Epic of Gligamesh, Enlil, the god of the sky and the air is upset by the cacophony of noise that humans are making on earth and decides to wash them all away with a massive flood. The water god, Ea, or Enki, then indirectly advises Utnapishtim, a righteous king, to build a boat to save his family and a few of each animal. After having drifted on the floodwaters for a week, Utnapishtim sends birds out to search for dry land. When a raven does not return to the ark, Utnapishtim makes a sacrifice to Ea and is granted eternal life at the edge of the earth. (The Epic of Gligamesh; Tablet XI). The idea that it was mankind's excessive noise that caused Enlil to send down his deluge points out that the Sumerians were probably a very peaceful group of people who valued quiet and calm. It is also important that Utnapishtim makes a sacrifice to Ea in that we are shown that he is a thankful, humble man who gives his god, not himself, credit for being saved from the flood.

In the Greek account of the flood, Zeus, the ruler god, hears rumors of mankind's wickedness. To test this, he becomes a man and comes to earth, where he is treated inhospitably, verifying his belief that the human race should be wiped out. Zeus then settles on an immense flood as means to destroy the world, and calls upon his brother, Poseidon, the god of the sea, to assist him. Only Deucalion and his wife, Pyrrha, who are dev**ed to Zeus and the gods survive the flood and are responsible for repopulating the planet. They have a son, Hellen (whom the Greeks attributed their lineage to, thus their name, the Hellenes), and they are given the ability to create humans by tossing stones over their shoulders as they walk. The earth, Gaia, then proceeds to recreate animal and plant life. (Morford 98-101). The fact that Zeus sent the flood because he was not treated well by humans illustrates the point that the Greeks valued those who were friendly and who warmly accepted visitors and travelers into their homes. The idea that Deucalion and Pyrrha were not only saved, but given god-like powers after they were saved shows that the Greeks believed that at any moment, a human could get swept up in a god's plan and either be rewarded greatly or punished severely for their past actions.

The Hebrew flood story, as found in Genesis, starts when God sees that humans on earth have become sinful and wicked. He decides to send down a flood to destroy humankind, but saves Noah, a righteous and blameless man, and his family. God then tells Noah to build a great ark so that he and his family, along with seven of every clean animal and two of every unclean animal may escape the floodwaters. After forty days and forty nights of flooding, a wind was sent to stop the rain. Noah then sent birds to find dry land; when a dove came back with a fresh olive leaf, Noah knew that the water had receded and came out to build an altar on which he would make a sacrifice to the Lord. God then proceeded to promise never again to destroy the earth with a flood. (NIV Study Bible, Genesis 6-9). Since it is man's wickedness and sin, in this story, that causes the flood to be sent, it is clear that the Hebrew culture valued religious law above all else and saw disobeying God as the ultimate evil. As in the Sumerian myth, it is significant that Noah builds an altar to make a sacrifice to God because it shows us not only that the Hebrews greatly valued the worship of God, but also that Noah is thankful for his life being saved rather than angry with God for his race being saved. This attitude implies that the Hebrews trusted God and had confidence in that anything he did was ultimately right.

Despite the obvious discrepancies of each of the stories, each culture's account of the great flood is similar in structure: a god perceives humans to be highly flawed and sends a flood to destroy the entire race, but one person or group of people manage to survive and repopulate the earth. These acute similarities in the versions of this story imply that there are universal meanings to the idea of the flood. First, human beings in all cultures view themselves as lesser beings than the gods and understand themselves to be at the mercy of the gods. This is shown by the reiterated idea that the flood is a punishment for mankind's extensive faults. Each of the people who are saved from the flood are people who are dev**ed to their deities and are righteous people, which emphasizes the idea that all cultures appreciate religious dedication and respect those who have high moral standards. The fact that the stories specifically use a flood for the means of destruction brings in the idea that water is considered worldwide not only as physically cleansing, but also spiritually cleansing. Lastly, the chance of there actually being a historical great flood improves greatly with the idea that the same story is reported in similar fashions over the entire world. Overall, the various flood legends of the world serve to unite intercultural beliefs and prove that what is generally dismissed as a myth may actually have historical basis in reality.

Why 2 animals you ask. Well, the direction was 2 of every unclean animal and 7 of each clean animal. Where did I get this information. Genisis 9:19. And there were only
280 animals. It is simple math. The popular myth of an ark containing tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of species is not supported by Genesis 7:2-3 which describes the herd as seven pairs (fourteen) of each clean animal (i.e. animals used for temple offerings and food), one pair of each unclean animal and bird and seven pairs of clean birds. How many kinds of clean animals were there? We don't have to guess. Deuteronomy 14:4-5 lists 10 species of clean animals, which implies 140 clean animals in Noah's barge. Assuming a minimum average of 12 square feet per animal (cramped but adequate), 1680 square feet of deck area would be needed. If Noah's workers loaded only the animals that happened to be in Noah's stockyard when the river started rising, the barge may have contained only a few dozen clean animals.

How much deck area was needed for the unclean animals and birds? Leviticus 11:4-19 and Deuteronomy 14:7-18 list about 30 species of unclean animals and birds. Thirty pairs would be 60 animals. These small animals would fit in 2 feet by 2 feet cages. In addition, seven pairs of each of the five species of clean birds is a total of 70 clean birds. Assuming 4 square feet for each caged small animal and bird, only 520 square feet were needed. Thus the total deck area required for the estimated 270 animals was only 2200 square feet, leaving plenty of deck area for walkways and baskets of grain piled several deep.

The broad words of Genesis 6:19: "And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark" and a similar phrase in Genesis 7:15 are clearly inconsistent with the sacrifices of Genesis 8:20 and the seven pairs mentioned in Genesis 7:2-3. Since the phrase "two of every kind" is an overgeneralization, the preceding phrase "every living thing" can also be treated as an overgeneralization and be interpreted narrowly to mean every living thing of importance that Noah owned or had custody of. If Noah was asked years later how many animals he took on the barge, Noah may have replied, "Every one; I took them all." In such a remark, the words "every" and "all" would mean only that he did not leave any of his animals behind, not that he took every species on the planet. As with the proverbial fish story, the scope of "every" grew with the retelling.

Noah's clean animals included cattle, sheep and goats. His unclean animals included raven, swine and eagles. They were his inventory, his stock in trade. But most of the world's animals were not included. Exotic zoo animals such as elephants, giraffes, hippos, lions, apes and kangaroos are not mentioned in Genesis or Deuteronomy and were not included in Noah's inventory. Since it would be impossible for Noah to attract millions of animals from all over the planet, he did not do so. The animals came to the ark because local herdsmen brought them to the ark. According to Gilgamesh XI,82 "All the living beings I had, I loaded aboard." Yes, all he had, and only those he had.

Would it be practical for 9 people (Noah, his 3 sons and their wives plus the boatman Puzur-Amurri) to feed and water 270 animals and haul out the manure each day? Assuming 10 hour work days (not including rest and dinner breaks) each person would have 20 minutes per animal each day. Entirely practical.

Would there be enough deck area for the hay, beer, and wine for the 382 days the barge was occupied? Assuming each clean animal consumed half of a cubic foot of hay per day, 140 animals would consume 70 cubic feet per day or 26,700 cubic feet in 382 days. In a hayloft 6 feet high about 4460 square feet of deck area would be required for the hay.

Assuming each person and large animal consumed three quarts of water (as beer or wine) per day, 152 large animals and people would consume about 44,000 gallons in 382 days. Four gallons in a clay jar occupy about one square foot. If the jars were stacked two deep, about 5500 square feet of deck area would be required to store the beer and wine, leaving enough deck area for structural members, walkways, and jars of other commodities. This is assuming three quarts of water/beer/wine per day. Small animals would require less than half of that amount. The adult people may have consumed eight quarts of beer per day. Only a small amount of well water would have been stowed in the barge for the animals during the expected few days of travel. Water would not have been hauled as cargo because nobody would want to buy well water, but jars of beer and wine would have provided the necessary drinking water on the barge. After the barge grounded in an estuary, Noah could have used brackish river water.

Since Noah loaded only the animals that he had, if he had fewer than ten species of clean animals, the total number of animals may have been much smaller than estimated here. This means the amount of beer, hay, and grain that were used to keep those animals alive would also have been smaller than estimated.

I hope that I addressed the original question of the thread. I thank you Ve'Hoe for allowing me to attached this to your response.
The story of the flood is one that is not just fro... (show quote)
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Apr 1, 2014 19:19:37   #
The directions are on the left side of the screen, nothing to remember............look left, see the smiley faces, under see the word "Tags"? That is directions for all actions.


bahmer wrote:
in other words just forget it, I'll never remember that
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Apr 1, 2014 19:16:15   #
Ms. Ginger,

I would say that he did not lay the necessary ground work to encourage others to work with him. If you were honest, then you too would admit that he does not have a reputation for compromise or showing a willingness to work well with others. When all is said and done, there were other presidents that worked with the Congress and House rather than threaten them. If I am wrong, show me your proof.

I do not know for sure, and I doubt that you know whether or not people answered the phone or let it go to the answering machine in the Bush administration. If you have proof, then please do post it.

If you are referencing Syria, that show has not closed yet. If you are talking North Korea, that has not been resolved. Or perhaps you are talking about Russia, well as far as I know that has not been concluded. So, which 3 wars are you referencing?

So, I still say that he had no and still do not have the necessary sk**ls in foreign relations to represent our nation. If you give me irrefutable proof, then I will consider your position and perhaps if your information is persuasive then I will change my position.

Yes, the buck has to stop at his desk. Right or wrong, this is his presidency and what has been going on, it is ultimately his watch and his blame or praise.

ginger wrote:
So you blame just him? All of your complaints have to go through congress and they all just love him and want to work with him RIGHT.
For not having much foreign experience, the other countries like us again. I remember near the end of the Bush admin. most of the other leaders wouldn't even answer the phone when they knew it was him. And his non-foreign experience has kept us out of three wars so far. Putin is starting to back down now.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:40:23   #
It was funny! Sorry that I did not acknowledge the humor. I find Irish Sitters so beautiful, but they are a nervous breed. Perhaps I just have run into the ones that are nervous because they were being rescued. Their hair reminds me of a child because of how silky it feels. Our greyhound has very thin hair and has to wear a coat if the temp is below 45, but the lab oh my good I never have known a more pleasant playful personality. And of course our bagel does not like the cold. But, he has a fine nose and can chase small game all day!

bahmer wrote:
He is cute. I have never heard of that. I have heard of the beagle and I have heard of the basset but never the two together. I just thought it was a typo and tried to be funny. Most dogs do love cheese. I used to have german shorthair pointers when younger as I always liked to go pheasant hunting. They are one smart dog and when trained they are so much fun to watch hunt. They were always gentle around our children and very much part of the family. We have had irish setters and they are beautiful but when you take them out hunting their fluffy fur picks up every burr and bramble in the area. They also tend to be a bit head strong.
He is cute. I have never heard of that. I have hea... (show quote)
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Apr 1, 2014 15:10:48   #
With Duckie's back being not quite right and she is rather timid at times, a pit would see her as prey.

bahmer wrote:
I can appreciate the concern for duckie as any sign at all of some kind of weakness or injury would send these animals into a feeding frenzy that would truly be devastating. With animals it is always better to be safe than sorry.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:08:48   #
No, but he loves cheese of all kinds! Actually they are called Bagle Hounds. A cross between a basset and a beagle. Isn't he cute!!!

bahmer wrote:
Did your bagle hound come with cream cheese. OMG I am getting silly I guess I have been on to long now.


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Apr 1, 2014 14:44:12   #
I think, like all animals, they are all different. Having said that, I would not welcome a pit bull into my home. You know that I do animal rescue work. I have been called about taking in pit bulls and I always say no. It is not easy, especially when the animal is starving or chained up without care; but I would not risk having one around Duckie or my other animals. That includes my horses. I do have a few dogs, a greyhound that I rescued a few years back, a bagle hound (who loves to talk), and a lab.
bahmer wrote:
That is still very scary. I don't think that I would trust an animal like that around small children or elderly people. I don't think that i would trust them around other pets either.
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