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When you say healthcare is a human right what do you really mean?
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Feb 21, 2020 14:31:08   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
JFlorio wrote:
They like to point to England. They have two systems. Private and Public. From people I know their public sucks and privates great, if you can afford it.



I think that the English system would be the most to my liking.. that way all get treatment, if you can go private, then you get the private room, top shelf service, doctor and I bet faster appointments also..

Yes, I would be willing to pay for the private way..

Or maybe not... need more thought..



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Feb 21, 2020 14:36:02   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
permafrost wrote:
I think that the English system would be the most to my liking.. that way all get treatment, if you can go private, then you get the private room, top shelf service, doctor and I bet faster appointments also..

Yes, I would be willing to pay for the private way..

Or maybe not... need more thought..


Apparently the waiting list for the public option leaves many out. Also, procedures are rationed, so I've been told.

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Feb 21, 2020 14:43:11   #
steve66613
 
permafrost wrote:
denied healthcare... now you have the difficulty of defining just what you mean by that.

ON the verge of dying? right at that point some thing would be done.. at the early stage of a deadly disease?? No, not if the orange cult gets its way.. let em rot..

More to the point of our real life, the question should be; who has been denied health coverage, even when well able to afford it..

For a simply answer, it is me me me... for near 5 years after I began my own business I was without insurance for myself although I payed for my wife, 3 kids and 2 grand kids..

as luck would have it, I never needed it although in one instance I would have gone to the Doc for a flu like bug..

So if you do not want health care for all because you see it taking money from your pocket, why do you not object to refusal of insurance to others which in the end you would then have to pay more to ease the end days of the unwashed unwanted who do not get to pay for their needed insurance?

In our society, no matter how distorted the figures become, the truth is that health care for all is the cheapest answer for you and the population of our nation..
denied healthcare... now you have the difficulty o... (show quote)


Kind of boils down to turning this country into some sort of “third world utopia” in order to guarantee that everyone has “health insurance”......good healthcare be damned.

According to Bernie and Liz, mize-well throw in other free schitt...... “repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth”. (According to Nazi Her Goebells.)

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Feb 21, 2020 15:20:41   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
steve66613 wrote:
Kind of boils down to turning this country into some sort of “third world utopia” in order to guarantee that everyone has “health insurance”......good healthcare be damned.

According to Bernie and Liz, mize-well throw in other free schitt...... “repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth”. (According to Nazi Her Goebells.)




That is what the right wing has been doing for decades, to this day.. constant repeated lies..

The reason the orange dirt bag slithered into the oval office is exactly that, constant lies, about anyone and everyone..

Back to health care.. If you do not like health care for all.. come up with a plan..

Just bitching about what other do or propose does nothing.. if you have an idea, express it..

If not, get out of the way and let the movers and shakers get it done..Obstruction helps no one..



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Feb 21, 2020 16:26:43   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
JFlorio wrote:
I’m being serious here. Not sure I get the whole human right and healthcare to line up. Does that make me responsible for my neighbors healthcare?
It isn't a right if you have to pay for it.

Our rights are inalienable, which means they cannot be bought or taken away from us nor can we give them away or sell them.

Seems we have expended so much time, energy and resources arguing over human rights that we have forgotten what it means to be human.

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Feb 21, 2020 16:30:03   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
It isn't a right if you have to pay for it.

Our rights are inalienable, which means they cannot be bought or taken away from us nor can we give them away or sell them.

Seems we have expended so much time, energy and resources arguing over human rights that we have forgotten what it means to be human.


👍👍👍👍👍

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Feb 21, 2020 16:32:29   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
It isn't a right if you have to pay for it.

Our rights are inalienable, which means they cannot be bought or taken away from us nor can we give them away or sell them.

Seems we have expended so much time, energy and resources arguing over human rights that we have forgotten what it means to be human.


Amen. As an example lets say you are a doctor and two people, same age, same sex, collapse at the same time. Both look like heart attacks. Who does the doctor save? How do you choose if saving them is a human right. I personally believe the entire human right thing is just a talking point the left doesn't even get. Except as far as exerting more control over the individual. I believe we have the right to access health care. Subtle difference. How, in a free country do you have the right to someone else's labor or resources?

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Feb 22, 2020 08:49:29   #
Owl32 Loc: ARK
 
I spent almost 60 years in healthcare and never saw healthcare denied to anyone. Some did not have insurance, most did, but they all received care end of story. Bernie is a guy who was a sorry freeloader his whole life and still is today. He knows if all were like him their would be no doctors, no hospitals and any money to steal and one thing he knows is HOW to steal other peoples money. This is his whole plan. If there are enough fools to vote for him this fool will steal it all. Look at the state he is from they are all poorer because of him and he is richer and did earn a penny of IT.

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Feb 22, 2020 09:30:25   #
Singularity
 
JFlorio wrote:
All you say, and say very well is true. But is healthcare a human right? I say no.


One could say its the Christian thing to do. I know, right? How come an atheist is preaching to "the choir!?!" Well, the sound of Christian witnessing was deafening, so I thought it wouldn't noticed.

Christ says YES! Those who recognize these human needs and eradicate the problems are the BLESSED. Those who ignore and capitalize on other's misery are UNRIGHTEOUS. And cursed.

"Matt 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungrey, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

~

Don't worry, its probably just metaphorical, right?

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Feb 22, 2020 09:36:47   #
Singularity
 
steve66613 wrote:
Yepper! Bernie wants us to believe that “every civilized industrial nation on earth has free healthcare for their people”.

Well, “free” doesn’t mean “without cost”!

And, OUR COUNTRY IS NOT LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY! Ask yourself: in your own experience, have you personally known anyone who was denied healthcare? (Yep, me neither.)

So Bernie, exactly why do you REALLY want a “revolutionary change” of government in order to provide “free” healthcare?


I absolutely have been denied healthcare due to inability to pay. These days the excuse is, "At your age...."

So has my son. And my other son. And a friend of my son who stayed with me for a week or two.

And.....

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Feb 22, 2020 09:51:17   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
JFlorio wrote:
I’m being serious here. Not sure I get the whole human right and healthcare to line up. Does that make me responsible for my neighbors healthcare?


With so much to it, No, it is not a right...
Simply stated it is not a right at all. It is more a moral obligation to insure a means of medical care for those in need...

”We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” Right?? Of course buttttttt Nothing says government will insure it..

These words are in the Declaration of Independence and define the “rights” of American citizens.

Some Americans have believed that health care is not only a right, but that the government should provide it and taxpayers should pay for it...Back to s moral obligation to Insure medical care which is already done... Medicaid/medicare, personal, private health provided...

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Feb 22, 2020 10:02:51   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Singularity wrote:
I absolutely have been denied healthcare due to inability to pay. These days the excuse is, "At your age...."

So has my son. And my other son. And a friend of my son who stayed with me for a week or two.

And.....


Not being personal and no need to answer but Sing can’t you get subsidized care??

I know medical care has been denied by physicians too.. They want to payment up front or no appointment... Hospitals on the other hand can not deny care but I suspect just do the basics and out you go..

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Feb 22, 2020 10:07:18   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Singularity wrote:
One could say its the Christian thing to do. I know, right? How come an atheist is preaching to "the choir!?!" Well, the sound of Christian witnessing was deafening, so I thought it wouldn't noticed.

Christ says YES! Those who recognize these human needs and eradicate the problems are the BLESSED. Those who ignore and capitalize on other's misery are UNRIGHTEOUS. And cursed.

"Matt 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungrey, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

~

Don't worry, its probably just metaphorical, right?
One could say its the Christian thing to do. I kno... (show quote)


I think its our moral obligation to help those in need, not only Christians but all people..

We see it in Major Catastrophes, unite and humanity rules....

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Feb 22, 2020 10:46:14   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Singularity wrote:
One could say its the Christian thing to do. I know, right? How come an atheist is preaching to "the choir!?!" Well, the sound of Christian witnessing was deafening, so I thought it wouldn't noticed.

Christ says YES! Those who recognize these human needs and eradicate the problems are the BLESSED. Those who ignore and capitalize on other's misery are UNRIGHTEOUS. And cursed.

"Matt 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungrey, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

~

Don't worry, its probably just metaphorical, right?
One could say its the Christian thing to do. I kno... (show quote)


Good morning. I'm somewhat concerned after reading and remembering your Biblical quote about sheep and goats because Jeanette has sometimes referred to me as her old goat. She obviously knows me better that I do. A husband going on 58 years gets no respect in his own household. 😭

Anyhow, consider that Christ was speaking to individuals not to any forced government participation which has resulted in the overall decline in voluntary charitable contributions.

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Feb 22, 2020 11:01:07   #
Singularity
 
lindajoy wrote:
Not being personal and no need to answer but Sing can’t you get subsidized care??

I know medical care has been denied by physicians too.. They want to payment up front or no appointment... Hospitals on the other hand can not deny care but I suspect just do the basics and out you go..


I have Medicare. For me. When I went to the ER after a fall which injured my shoulder and knee, I was told they would evaluate only the more serious shoulder dislocation and refused to Xray the knee or the internal delicate surgically balanced appliances that keep my neck together these days, even though I had symptoms of cervical radiculopathy (neck pain, shooting to the fingers, indicating a pinched or damaged nerve in the neck bones...) I was told it was cost saving to focus ONLY ON THE ONE INITIAL COMPLAINT during emergency visits and referred to the clinic next day for the knee, and to my previous neurosurgeon in the following week, if symptoms persisted.

I only went because of my concern for my spine, having treated the shoulder adequately myself. I had already popped the shoulder in place myself because I knew the ambulance ride would take about a half hour, and typically the longer one waits the more spasmed and tight the muscles can become, and it can then be impossible to set correctly without surgical anesthesia.

I protested to no avail. Was given my discharge papers despite insisting that I wanted evaluation of the neck in addition.

Then, the discharge instructions said clearly that I should return to the ER immediately, (it said immediately!) if I experienced pain shooting down my arm. Duh! I just concluded I was insane from the pain and narcotics and went home to try to sleep it off.

Wanted a neck xray, but got only a bad view of the shoulder. And a shot that dulled my protest.

~

When my son applied for disability he was told he might also receive Medicaid in the interim but if found not qualified for Social Security Disability, he would have to pay the premiums back retroactively! He knew he would be unable to do that so did not accept the coverage. It took five years before he was able to qualify due to delays, appeals and rejection due to lack of treatment records, because he couldn't afford treatment and was only seen for 25 min every three months by a nurse practitioner who did not have his medical records available from the Behavioral Health Institute's muddling attempts. A Catch 22 that guarantees homelessness, medical indigency, social oblivion, and isolation in death in far too many cases.

He finally was admitted to Vanderblit Hospital due to an extraordinary scenario I was just lucky enough to have been able to maneuver them into, instead of committal to the State Behavioral Health Institute again (jail for poor psychiatric patients who become dangerous to self or others.) They helped him aquire Medicaid, and he now has Medicare and SSD, though he will be reevaluated in 8 months for possible improvement and loss of benefits. He is Manic Depressive and has Dystonia, a condition similar to Parkinson's Disease. Still works part time delivering sandwiches.

The other two stories will just make this post too long....

I need to get out more! These book long posts MUST be getting annoying for folks....

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