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When you say healthcare is a human right what do you really mean?
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Feb 21, 2020 11:29:27   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
I’m being serious here. Not sure I get the whole human right and healthcare to line up. Does that make me responsible for my neighbors healthcare?

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Feb 21, 2020 11:51:07   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
JFlorio wrote:
I’m being serious here. Not sure I get the whole human right and healthcare to line up. Does that make me responsible for my neighbors healthcare?


Lots of rights being touted that are not found in the Constitution and God forbid if some hairbrained progressive politician says you have a right, don't get between them and the rush for that new right.

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Feb 21, 2020 11:56:12   #
waltmoreno
 
JFlorio wrote:
I’m being serious here. Not sure I get the whole human right and healthcare to line up. Does that make me responsible for my neighbors healthcare?


I hear ya. My gf, an english professor is a huge proponent of free health care for everyone. Saying it doesn't mean that everyone gets free health care. Unless you're prepared to enslave huge proportions of the populations to pay for adequate health care for all the ailments of patients. Alternatively it could simply mean what it does in communist countries or countries with socialized medicine, that every patient gets a free band-aid - no matter what their ailment. That's about the only way it's remotely affordable.
God given, inalienable rights, as described in the constitution and bill of rights, never take from anyone else. A right to free speech, to assemble, to practice your own religion, to bear arms, etc., etc. never take anything from anyone else. A right to free health care most definitely takes from others and is really the first step in enslaving the people.

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Feb 21, 2020 12:00:49   #
Kevyn
 
JFlorio wrote:
I’m being serious here. Not sure I get the whole human right and healthcare to line up. Does that make me responsible for my neighbors healthcare?


In a warped way of understanding things I suppose it does. If your neighbors house catches on fire, the fire department will come and put the fire out. You both pay taxes to support the fire department so in essence you are responsible for putting out your neighbors burning house.

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Feb 21, 2020 12:12:36   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Kevyn wrote:
In a warped way of understanding things I suppose it does. If your neighbors house catches on fire, the fire department will come and put the fire out. You both pay taxes to support the fire department so in essence you are responsible for putting out your neighbors burning house.


Strawman (dumb) argument. Not everyone’s house will catch fire. Nearly everyone will use healthcare at sometime.
I’m also responsible for paying for the Fire Insurance that protects me from damages.

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Feb 21, 2020 12:26:37   #
steve66613
 
JFlorio wrote:
I’m being serious here. Not sure I get the whole human right and healthcare to line up. Does that make me responsible for my neighbors healthcare?


IMO:

When you say: “healthcare is a human right”, you’re saying that the government should assume ownership of the means if production and form/regulate an industry which provides everyone, within the government’s field of influence, some level of healthcare. Thus, the “working class” (proletariat) contribute their income for the “benefit of all”. (Including ALL persons, regardless of immigration status.)

Actually, HEALTH INSURANCE is a privilege in a free society. Those who work can buy insurance or negotiate with their employer for a benefit of some or all of the insurance paid. Obviously, those who cannot pay, are cared for, through an agreed upon/legislated “social program”. Apparently, states can decide the level of taxation and healthcare, that the citizens of that state shall provide to non payers.

It appears that you and I, at some point in history, decided to have the government set up a “social program” for taking care of the “less fortunate” in society. So, yes we’re “responsible” for our neighbor’s health care....if they are “legitimately” unable to do so.

The question: who should be “served” and for how long?

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Feb 21, 2020 12:31:57   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
All you say, and say very well is true. But is healthcare a human right? I say no.
steve66613 wrote:
IMO:

When you say: “healthcare is a human right”, you’re saying that the government should assume ownership of the means if production and form/regulate an industry which provides everyone, within the government’s field of influence, some level of healthcare. Thus, the “working class” (proletariat) contribute their income for the “benefit of all”. (Including ALL persons, regardless of immigration status.)

Actually, HEALTH INSURANCE is a privilege in a free society. Those who work can buy insurance or negotiate with their employer for a benefit of some or all of the insurance paid. Obviously, those who cannot pay, are cared for, through an agreed upon/legislated “social program”. Apparently, states can decide the level of taxation and healthcare, that the citizens of that state shall provide to non payers.

It appears that you and I, at some point in history, decided to have the government set up a “social program” for taking care of the “less fortunate” in society. So, yes we’re “responsible” for our neighbor’s health care....if they are “legitimately” unable to do so.

The question: who should be “served” and for how long?
IMO: br br When you say: “healthcare is a human r... (show quote)

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Feb 21, 2020 12:33:35   #
steve66613
 
Kevyn wrote:
In a warped way of understanding things I suppose it does. If your neighbors house catches on fire, the fire department will come and put the fire out. You both pay taxes to support the fire department so in essence you are responsible for putting out your neighbors burning house.


As usual, you’re a little short on compassion.

The point is: who pays for your neighbor to “have their life restored” to the level they were accustomed to?

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Feb 21, 2020 12:46:46   #
steve66613
 
JFlorio wrote:
All you say, and say very well is true. But is healthcare a human right? I say no.


IMO: “human right”....no. “Human need”....
absolutely! So, in a modern civilization, we need to determine the best way to provide the best healthcare for the CITIZENS OF OUR SOCIETY/NATION. A capitalistic republic, using the principles of democracy, seems to work better than any form of government, ever devised, historically.

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Feb 21, 2020 13:00:50   #
vernon
 
steve66613 wrote:
As usual, you’re a little short on compassion.

The point is: who pays for your neighbor to “have their life restored” to the level they were accustomed to?


The neighbor has the responsibility of getting his life restored. Ever person should be responsible for restoring their life at some point.

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Feb 21, 2020 13:05:06   #
steve66613
 
waltmoreno wrote:
I hear ya. My gf, an english professor is a huge proponent of free health care for everyone. Saying it doesn't mean that everyone gets free health care. Unless you're prepared to enslave huge proportions of the populations to pay for adequate health care for all the ailments of patients. Alternatively it could simply mean what it does in communist countries or countries with socialized medicine, that every patient gets a free band-aid - no matter what their ailment. That's about the only way it's remotely affordable.
God given, inalienable rights, as described in the constitution and bill of rights, never take from anyone else. A right to free speech, to assemble, to practice your own religion, to bear arms, etc., etc. never take anything from anyone else. A right to free health care most definitely takes from others and is really the first step in enslaving the people.
I hear ya. My gf, an english professor is a huge p... (show quote)


Yepper! Bernie wants us to believe that “every civilized industrial nation on earth has free healthcare for their people”.

Well, “free” doesn’t mean “without cost”!

And, OUR COUNTRY IS NOT LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY! Ask yourself: in your own experience, have you personally known anyone who was denied healthcare? (Yep, me neither.)

So Bernie, exactly why do you REALLY want a “revolutionary change” of government in order to provide “free” healthcare?

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Feb 21, 2020 13:06:31   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
They like to point to England. They have two systems. Private and Public. From people I know their public sucks and privates great, if you can afford it.
steve66613 wrote:
Yepper! Bernie wants us to believe that “every civilized industrial nation on earth has free healthcare for their people”.

Well, “free” doesn’t mean “without cost”!

And, OUR COUNTRY IS NOT LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY! Ask yourself: in your own experience, have you personally known anyone who was denied healthcare? (Yep, me neither.)

So Bernie, exactly why do you REALLY want a “revolutionary change” of government in order to provide “free” healthcare?

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Feb 21, 2020 13:13:43   #
steve66613
 
vernon wrote:
The neighbor has the responsibility of getting his life restored. Ever person should be responsible for restoring their life at some point.


Ninety-nine percent of the time, neighbors, the church, Red Cross, local businesses, etc., etc., help people “get back on their feet”, right?

That’s in spite of insurance coverage.

Would socialism improve the present system?

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Feb 21, 2020 13:17:04   #
steve66613
 
JFlorio wrote:
They like to point to England. They have two systems. Private and Public. From people I know their public sucks and privates great, if you can afford it.


Yep!

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Feb 21, 2020 14:27:30   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
steve66613 wrote:
Yepper! Bernie wants us to believe that “every civilized industrial nation on earth has free healthcare for their people”.

Well, “free” doesn’t mean “without cost”!

And, OUR COUNTRY IS NOT LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY! Ask yourself: in your own experience, have you personally known anyone who was denied healthcare? (Yep, me neither.)

So Bernie, exactly why do you REALLY want a “revolutionary change” of government in order to provide “free” healthcare?



denied healthcare... now you have the difficulty of defining just what you mean by that.

ON the verge of dying? right at that point some thing would be done.. at the early stage of a deadly disease?? No, not if the orange cult gets its way.. let em rot..

More to the point of our real life, the question should be; who has been denied health coverage, even when well able to afford it..

For a simply answer, it is me me me... for near 5 years after I began my own business I was without insurance for myself although I payed for my wife, 3 kids and 2 grand kids..

as luck would have it, I never needed it although in one instance I would have gone to the Doc for a flu like bug..

So if you do not want health care for all because you see it taking money from your pocket, why do you not object to refusal of insurance to others which in the end you would then have to pay more to ease the end days of the unwashed unwanted who do not get to pay for their needed insurance?

In our society, no matter how distorted the figures become, the truth is that health care for all is the cheapest answer for you and the population of our nation..



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