Part Two
jack sequim wa wrote:
Once already I used scriptures to reveal your contradictions in scripture.
This is a lie, Jack. All you’ve done in your quoting of scriptures was subtracting from the word (ie you negate that Paul said Abraham’s children “do the works of Abraham” (John 8:39) and “walk in the steps” (Romans 4:12) of our father Abraham “before he was circumcised”) or adding to the word (ie you add the word “alone” making it “faith alone” where Paul never did add that word), thus artificially changing some of the important points that speak clearly and specifically against your false conclusions.
jack sequim wa wrote:
I'm less impressed with a printed dogma that a false teacher has cleverly written and then cut and pasted.
I certify to you Jack, that what I wrote, either I wrote it (for here or previously), or I quote my sources.
jack sequim wa wrote:
The false usage of two things, James and the usage of Greek.
Salvation by works can creep into denominations that claim to be Christian or say they believe in the Bible is that they misunderstand passages like James 2:24: “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” Taken in the context of the entire passage (James 2:14–26), it becomes evident that James is not saying our works make us righteous before God; instead, he is making it clear that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or “dead” faith and is not saved. James is making a contrast between two different types of faith—truth faith that saves and false faith that is dead.
The false usage of two things, James and the usage... (
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You can only make this claim, Jack, because you ignore the word “synergy” (sunergo in the Greek) that James uses. So your own words are testifying against you. You are the one who is ignoring the original languages of scripture. Paul himself also uses this word, though it is often hidden from English readers:
“We then, as workers together [synergy, Gr. Synergountes] with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.” 2 Corinthians 6:1
“For we are God's fellow workers (synergy, Gr. synergoi). You are God's farming, God's building.” 1 Corinthians 3:9
And Paul, along with others, explained in other ways that salvation was not by “faith alone”:
“So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Philippians 2:12
“Don't
work for the food which perishes, but for the food which remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has sealed him.” John 6:27
“You will be hated by all men for my name's sake, but
he who endures to the end will be saved.” Matthew 10:22
“...God doesn't show favoritism; 35but in every nation he who fears him
and works righteousness is acceptable to him.” Acts 10:34-35
jack sequim wa wrote:
There are simply too many verses that teach that one is not saved by works for any Christian to believe otherwise. Titus 3:4–5 is one of many such passages: “But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.” Good works do not contribute to salvation, but they will always be characteristic of one who has been born again. Good works are not the cause of salvation; they are the evidence of it.
While salvation by works might be the predominantly held viewpoint, it is not an accurate one biblically. The Bible contains abundant evidence of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).
Remember that if one verse contradicts another, then which verse is not being properly read? The bible in its entirety reveals the answer.
Jack
There are simply too many verses that teach that o... (
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Jack, once again your own words condemn you. It is written: “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:37
The two passages you quoted actually condemn your “faith alone” position. Here’s the first one:
“4But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, 5not by works of righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, [b]he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6which he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior;” Titus 3:4-5.
Do you not recall how Paul was commanded regarding his washing of regeneration?
“16Now why do you wait? Arise,
be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'” Acts 22:16
“And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:11
That didn’t happen at the moment of belief:
“12But when
they believed Philip preaching good news concerning the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself also believed. Being baptized, he continued with Philip. Seeing signs and great miracles occurring, he was amazed.
14Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15who, when they had come down,
prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit; 16for as yet he had fallen on none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of Christ Jesus. 17Then they laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:12-17
“Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 2:38
So, no, Titus 3:4–5, does not say we are saved by “faith alone”, it, like practically all other verses you have tried to use, refers to other elements of our salvation, which, if we live by every word of God, we see that it doesn’t really say what you are saying it says. Rather, we come to see the consistent message, which is definitely “NOT” the “faith alone” doctrine that you teach and believe, but which is never, ever once articulated as such in scripture.
Now let’s look at your next verse. Does it have the phrase “faith alone” in it? Of course not. So, you can’t find one verse in the Bible that simply says your favorite phrase.
“8for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, that no one would boast. 10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10
Not “faith alone”, Jack, faith and “works” that we are to walk in! God doesn’t walk them for us, nor has He made us robots, nor has He predestined some to righteousness and some to condemnation. There is no such respect of persons with God, although He is omniscient and knows what we will choose, He does not violate our free will, either before we come to Christ or after!
What you are doing, Jack, is called two things. First, it is a false dilemma. Again, that is how the devil interprets the Bible which you Evangelicals have down pat. The second is a straw man argument.
Let’s look at two scriptures:
“8for by grace
you have been saved through faith (Gr. #4102, , pisteōs) , and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, that no one would boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
“You believe that God is one. You do well. The
demons also believe (Gr. #4100 from #4102, pisteueis) , and shudder.” James 2:19
Devils have the faith alone that you say is all that is needed for salvation. The words belief and faith are from the same Greek word, “pistis”, which means “persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself.” (Strong’s). The word “pisteueis”, which is derived from “pistis”, means “to have faith (in respect to, a person or thing) i.e. credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ)” Strong’s.
Neither of these two scriptures are more authoritative than the other. Nobody made Paul the chief apostle whose words were to be held in higher esteem than any other scriptural writer. Neither do you or your type have the authority to add to or take away from these words by interpreting them to mean something other than the explicitly say like you’ve been doing. In fact, Paul himself said that if you claim to be only “of Paul” you are carnal (1 Cor. 3:3).
Thus the bible, not just James, states this, basing this fact on the truth that the devils have the “faith alone” that you are preaching:
“You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith.” James 2:24
Your problem, Jack, is that you have bought into a false dilemma. I’m not going to presume to know where you got your ideas, but you seem to think that if there are “works of righteousness” involved with salvation, then somehow they could only mean “prerequisites” to salvation. There is a term for that, it is called “monergism”, which is in contrast to the Biblical word of “synergy.”
Your false dilemma is that you are claiming, that if man’s works are involved it must be some type of monergy (lit. “one-energy”, in this case, “all man”), and you think that is what Paul is denouncing; therefore, from your perspective, only God can save through faith and that would be the “monergy of God alone” as opposed to man alone. This kind of thinking originated in the pagan doctrine of dualism; that man was all evil and only that which is spiritual is all good, therefore, man can play no part in his own salvation. This kind of thinking ignores two biblical facts. First that God created man and called him “very good.” Secondly, when we are in Christ we are a new creature.
If you were in a deep pit that you couldn’t climb out of, and someone lowered a ladder to you so you could climb out, I guess you’re the kind of person who would boast they got themselves out of the pit. Actually, that is what you are falsely accusing me of being by your straw man argument. It seems to me, on the other hand, you’re the kind of person who would say Jesus gave you a ladder so you are going to wait in the pit, on the basis that, since he sent you a ladder, he can also come down and carry me out; otherwise, if you climbed out using the ladder he gave you, Jesus wouldn’t get the honor from you of being your savior. And you really think that is “faith”? It isn’t really faith anymore than it is “faith only”, in reality it is just not responding with a good conscience to the good news.
In the real world, because you are choosing to stay in the pit, when you have the choice and have been freed to come out, but you choose not to come up by way of the prescribed ladder (i.e. Acts 2:38), all you’re doing is proving you like it better in the dark than the light of day:
“17For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him... 19
This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and
men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20For
everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.” John 3:17-21
Continued in Part Three