JohnCorrespondent

Earlier:


Now: (numbers in square brackets are added by JC):


The education system is described by J. T. Gatto is "Some Lessons From The Underground History Of American Education" which is an article found in the book _Everything You Know Is Wrong: the disinformation guide to secrets and lies_ (c)2002, which book is editted by Russ Kick.

J.T. Gatto (NY state teacher of year 1991, NY city teacher of year 3 times), begins with:

"From the beginning, there was purpose behind forced schooling, purpose which had nothing to do with what parents, kids, or communities wanted. Instead, it was forged out of what a highly centralized corporate economy and system of finance bent on internationalizing itself was thought to need; that, and what a strong, centralized political State needed, too. School was looked upon from the first decade of the twentieth century as a branch of industry and a tool of governance."

I feel sure that you'll interpret all that in an opposite direction from how I do. But anyway I found it an informative article (more shocking that I would have expected) and I'll quote further from it if the opportunity arises.

As I look at the education system now, I see about 3 things:

(1) up through high school we are taught (in a way which is too one-sided and simplistic) that our nation is _the_ good one and not to be questioned.

(2) Some of college education now is "liberal"; but there are different kinds of "liberal"; and one of the kinds is described by author Warren Farrell as a one-sided gender perspective (he's criticizing it).

(3) I began questioning when I found out some ways in which society wasn't working right. In some ways it was not how we had been taught. It took me about 30 years to find my own collection of ways that society doesn't work right (a big enough topic in itself, without even starting to look at any other countries), and, meanwhile, also, to realize that our nation is not the only well-educated nation (there are lots of them). Old habits of thinking die hard, and typically don't start to "die" (or be balanced) until one encounters a crisis that forces one to start seeing things differently.





The Democratic Party has its more-conservative part (e.g., N. Pelosi) and its more-progressive part (e.g., Tlaib, Omar, AOC, ...).




Your description matches better the threats to other countries which come from the U.S. (and a few other imperialist countries).




What about the Project For A New American Century? Isn't that the global capitalist agenda for complete control of the world? Isn't that coming from the right wing politically Conservative Republican think tanks?




I believe you're mistaken. I'm about as Left as most people (or more Left), and I don't want to "abolish our constitution". The constitution itself, as formulated by the Founding Fathers, was Left. The concept of rights to the people was and is Left (or, both Left and Right at the same time, perhaps in different ways). The concept of corporations being people is politically on the Right and it damages our rights. (The concept of corporations being people is a recent bad development and it did not come from the Left.)











Sounds like what the CIA does in some countries when it wants to erode support for some elected government that won't obey the U.S.





There are militant groups claiming to be Islamic, which are a threat to everyone (not just to the U.S.); while there are other militant groups (and national military) claiming to be American (literally American though perhaps not in the right spirit), which are also a threat to everyone (though less immediately to the U.S. and some of its allies).





That's okay. Some of my friends, over the years, have been Muslim. They've been at least as good as my Christian friends, and would probably work at least as well as elected representatives of me and everyone.



Good.



So, what about our relationship with Israel? Do you mean to say Israel (or our relationship with it) shouldn't be criticized? Is there something special about Israel, and if so, what is it?



(?) CONUS = contiguous continential U.S.?

I don't know about those camps & r. people, but I'm sure the U.S. has a lot of its own versions of them queued up to go do (and already doing) things in other countries. Would they be bad too?




Which parts of history are you looking at? The parts of history that have made the biggest impressions on me don't seem to match your ideas.




Thank you for explaining the acronym.




The frog in boiling water is a metaphor often invoked by the Left to describe both what happened in 1930s Germany and what's happening in the U.S. now.




That concept of "indoctrinated" goes both ways. The biggest indoctrination on U.S. soil is the glowing picture of the U.S. as the eternal good entity. This mostly one-sided picture is taught in the public schools. And it's not Left.




The most tragedy and tragedies _to_ this country have their roots in what this "country" has done to others.

Imagine some other country ostentatiously parking its war machine near the coast of New York and conducting military exercises. What kind of righteous results would you expect from that? Are they righteous only because "we" do them, or because of the actual situation as viewed in an unbiased way?




You exaggerate. Nobody is wholly benevolent and harmless. You also misuse the word enemy; it should be used with more care, more sparingly.




I would agree that greed of a few of the "coyotes" and wrongful ambitions of drug cartels prefer confusion along the border. That's only a small part of what's happening there, though.




You present it as a fake "humanitarian" crisis. The real fake is the "invasion" crisis. But there is a good tool for sorting out which thing is fake and which isn't. That's the legal process of evaluating asylum requests.




(another exaggeration)




I suppose you have a different idea of what "excellent" means. If I were only going to live another five years, and didn't care about anyone else in the world, and wanted more money for myself during those five (or, say, 2 or 3) years, and didn't have a conscience, then Trump would be the president for me. But if I expected to live longer than five years, or if I cared about anyone else (such as if I have children) then I'd regard Trump as most unexcellent (that is, not excellent).

Seth

CONUS = Continental United States

Our perceptions really are quite different.

From my perspective, America was working right (no pun intended) as recently as the 1970s.

Both sides of the aisle in the House and Senate were able to work together, there were no legal prosecutions of businesses or individuals because they were staying with the tenets of their religious beliefs, people, including relatives, friends and acquaintances, could hold opposing political views without any effect on their relationships and patriotism wasn't labelled "white supremacy," "racism" or "white nationalism."

People didn't tear down national historic monuments, schools taught American History without abbreviating it to mostly identity politics and white oppression and they taught Civics. They also taught students to reason, to think things out for themselves and form their own opinions.

Over the last 30 years, give or take, the Democratic Party, academia, the mainstream media and Hollywood were gradually devoured by the far left, who, with Obama's presidency, bolted extremely to port.

Obama defined it perfectly when he vowed to "fundamentally change America."

As a conservative, I have observed that it was the Democrats who took the civility out of politics, made the final moves in prepping to fragment American society, then in true Marx and Goebbels fashion, employed the strategy of accusing the GOP and today President Trump of doing what they themselves did -- dividing the people.

They also insist that Trump is a racist, a white supremacist...hammering it in until it's "understood," part of his persona, "fact" as in everybody "knows" it -- when he is no such thing, and they know it, but have no problem lying to the American people, slandering the president in one of the worst ways possible, to accomplish a political objective.

From a top echelon N.Y. Democrat who has known Donald Trump for about 40 years:

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/08/prominent_dem_stands_up_to_the_mob_donald_trump_is_no_racist.html

I don't know what else to tell you, except that unless you're a fan of totalitarianism, already know and approve of the true state of affairs, you need to open your eyes a bit wider and see how thoroughly you and others have been propagandized by organized professionals with a century of ultimately successful experience -- successful until it's too late, that is, and then reality has invariably stepped in and brought down the house, as in the Soviet Union or worse, Venezuela.

How you discern reality is up to you. If you can look, for example, at the soaring Trump economy and deny that the tax cuts and deletion of numerous Obama regulations were a primary reason for it, deny that the economy is booming and believe that the dire "forecasts" that it's merely a bubble and about to burst is accurate and not simply more wishful thinking by Democrats, you're probably one of those "believers" who are in for a tragic shock if the side you support ever actually achieves their goals for America.

Mikeyavelli

It's white people clamoring for their own demise and a prosperous country convinced that equality is better than prosperity. The left's partnership with Islam to topple the United States once achieved will see the lefties pointy little heads roll first.
All this is feigned as goodness for mankind, but it's the only way to topple America and reverse the outcome of any war America has fought and won.

JohnCorrespondent

I suppose your school taught American History about the same as mine did.

In the National Hispanic University (here in the U.S.), about 15 years ago, there was a history class for which the textbook was Howard Zinn's _A People's History Of The United States_. A friend told me that. I read part of it, then read all of the children's version of it (easy reading). It's much different from any traditional history of the U.S. that I had ever seen, and I think it's a good one.


I followed that link and read the article. It describes Trump helping some people (including some black people and Puerto Rico). Then it says Obama talked with, or praised or had as guests, some people including Farakhan and Wright (each of whom are (apparently) outspoken critics of our conventional society).

I think Farakhan is questionable. I seem to recall that Malcolm X had a falling out with him and had to go another way. I don't know what Obama actually said about him.

The article (the full statement obtained by clicking another link) then says that the things Obama did (relative to race) were much worse than what Trump has done (relative to race). (I don't think so.)

Trump said that illegal immigrants coming up through our southern border are our worst violent criminals. Do you believe they are? (I don't. Oh sure a relatively _few_ of them may be _among_ our worst violent criminals. Trump did not include any such nuance though.) Some people call that (unfounded) statement, of Trump's, racist.

Trump is a baiter. Race is just one of the convenient tools in baiting. Trump likes to stir up a crowd, carelessly saying what will stir them up, without much thoughtfulness as to whether what he says is true, false, or misleading. Whether Trump is racist or not, a lot of the people he stirs up act like they're stirred up as racists. Trump is careless, and dangerous like a loose cannon. Mass shootings and pipe bomb mailings have increased since about the time Trump was elected President. It's at least partly because of the irresponsible way he stirs up people.

Some of the typical comments on OPP about Ilhan Omar (a Trump political opponent) do look racist to me; do they look racist to you also?


In our kind of economy, bubbles can easily form and burst no matter who is president. One can use logic to try to say what causes it to happen. (I know one good theory and fact, about it, but it is not specific to Trump.)

I don't know just which facts best define the state of the economy. Which fact(s) tell you that it is "soaring"?

The biggest, most substantial Trump tax cuts have been for the wealthiest people and their corporations, and the justification given for that is the trickle down theory. Right?

Seth

Serious teachers I know, including a home schooler who gets excellent results, curse the name of Howard Zinn.

As for the economy, I'm not a theory or believe everything I read guy, I prefer to see things for myself. Since I have friends who own small and medium size businesses and former corporate clients whose security directors I chat with, I get my information from the proverbial "horse's mouth." I don't need graphs, charts and politically motivated "data" to learn the truth.

Our economy is in the best shape it's been in since the mid 1990s, when Clinton was smart enough to continue riding the Reagan/Bush wave.

Jobs began disappearing in the late 1990s, nevertheless.

The B.S. from the left about Trump's economy is just that, B.S., and even so they can't seem to make up their minds on which lie to tell.

One story is that the economy's no better now than under Obama.

The other story is that this great economy was Obama's doing.

I suppose that, being a lefty, one can "believe" both at once, but luckily I'm not a portsider: I know the economy is booming because of the corporate tax cuts and President Trump's elimination of Obama's many job killing regulations.

Mikeyavelli

It's hard to get a tax cut if you don't pay taxes.
Most of you lefties don't pay taxes, so why complain about other people's tax cuts? As a gauge, my portfolio is soaring, and my economy is doing well. That's the most important gauge, how you are doing. And if you aren't doing well in this economy, you will never do well.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

I feel the same. I was so pissed last year in the amount I had to pay for the ACA here in Florida and then fined $6,000 more by the IRS for going over my income limit. In January I walked in and told my health care lady and tax person I'm making $40,000 this year and that's it. I want the same subsidy the parasites get. She informed me I passed that limit in March. Oh well up goes the premium and deductible again. Of course my family (just the wife and I) have $16,700.00 out of pocket.

Mikeyavelli

Why you rich white bigot, you are supposed to enjoy supporting the Obama health care reform. 16 thousand is nothing to you rich white people. Obama knows best what to do with your money. Think of all the help you are giving to the people who don't work!

amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle

Well, I guess there are live ones and dead ones, like from the Holocaust (unless you don't believe it happened).

Seth

Speaking of Malcolm X, the leftist history revisionists have "left" out that even Mr.X warned blacks about a "certain" political party keeping them down while exploiting their fear of "another Jim Crow" to get their vote.

Hmmm, I know he wasn't talking about the Republicans...

Mikeyavelli

OAN plays that clip from Malcolm X. Malcolm X tells a very large group of black people that they are chumps for voting for the same political party over and over and still remain mired in poverty. It's devastating to the kommiecrats. More people should hear the speech, and OAN plays it often.

Seth

Mikeyavelli

And some say, that Malcolm X is the father of Barack Obama.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Wouldn’t that make him Obrand X?

Seth

That sounds like something I'd come up with.