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Jul 21, 2019 18:44:37   #
son of witless
 
permafrost wrote:
wide debate on that.

Some societies believe when the baby takes its first breath on its own, then it is human as gifted by God.

Our Christian Bible has verses which support this idea..

I fall on the side that the baby must be able to live outside of Mom to be human..

But I have some conflict with just when on a time line that would be..


I commend you for answering. Not that I care for what you said, but at least you bothered to answer me. I always try to get an exact moment when an abortion advocate acknowledges human life, because I want that scientific answer that Liberals are so famous for. They always say science is on their side.

Okay then scientifically when does that mass of cells growing inside of the human womb go from the status of an appendix to the full rights of a human being ? Give me a time and I will ask, okay what about a day, a minute, a second before that moment ?

You guys always claim that we anti abortion folks just hate women. No we don't. What if it really really really is our concern for a life that is so young that it has no one but us sticking up for it ? What if it is just that we like babies and don't actually hate women ?

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Jul 21, 2019 19:04:56   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
son of witless wrote:
I commend you for answering. Not that I care for what you said, but at least you bothered to answer me. I always try to get an exact moment when an abortion advocate acknowledges human life, because I want that scientific answer that Liberals are so famous for. They always say science is on their side.

Okay then scientifically when does that mass of cells growing inside of the human womb go from the status of an appendix to the full rights of a human being ? Give me a time and I will ask, okay what about a day, a minute, a second before that moment ?

You guys always claim that we anti abortion folks just hate women. No we don't. What if it really really really is our concern for a life that is so young that it has no one but us sticking up for it ? What if it is just that we like babies and don't actually hate women ?
I commend you for answering. Not that I care for w... (show quote)




rough test..

i stand on what I posted..

hate abortions, but I insist on a womans right to make her own decision..

Pick a time.. near impossable.. but I do lean to the idea I posted..

Like babies.. well yes,, everyone does.

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Jul 21, 2019 19:31:01   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
permafrost wrote:
peweee,,

Yes I am a white nordic prince.. no one hates me, I am loved by all.

How could anyone not love one such as I??

Humans start with the breath of live given by God..

that is very far from the point of fertilization.. the fetus can not breath until born to the world..

It is the women who makes birth possable, who carriers the fetus to the point of birth.

as the doer rather then the watcher, it is the women who makes the decision.
If she wishs the share the decision, that is also her choice..

It is the rights of the living and denial of allowing others to force her to their wishes rather then the needs of her own..

I am very much for the true rights of others..
DNA?? what are you trying to say??

I actually knew of more than one man who when the DNA proved he was not the father.. he was sent on his way and never had to pay support for one that was not his.. any thing else is injustice and a violation of the mans rights..

Is the gravity set to high for you today??
peweee,, br br Yes I am a white nordic prince.. ... (show quote)


So your ego is healthy, but your brain is a little foggy. It's a baby, not a fetus. It's alive and growing until it's murdered. Sort of like any crop, the seed gets planted and if the conditions are right it grows until it becomes ripe and is born. The baby or plant gets nutrients from the soil but the farmer planted the seed. It takes both. Do you allow parasites to destroy your garden? PP is a parasite organization. They even fired the latest head of PP, a Ms. Wen, because she wanted to offer the services PP always say they support and offer and wouldn't agree to lie and say there are more than two genders. Plus they are selling body parts which are ILLEGAL. Biology wasn't your best subject, was it? Justice isn't or shouldn't be an ala carte thing depending on which side of the aisle one is on. You appear to believe in situational ethics instead of right and wrong or good and evil. What do you have against binary options? Computers even work on ones and zeros.

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Jul 21, 2019 19:45:47   #
son of witless
 
permafrost wrote:
rough test..

i stand on what I posted..

hate abortions, but I insist on a womans right to make her own decision..

Pick a time.. near impossable.. but I do lean to the idea I posted..

Like babies.. well yes,, everyone does.


I understand your concerns. I cannot say that I am unconflicted because you could do to me what I did to you and start splitting hairs. I still say that dehumanizing an unborn baby is similar to what has always happened in human history. The inconvenient person ceases being human. They could be Black, Jewish, Native American or other.

At some point science will bail out our moral dilemma. Artificial wombs will take those unwanted babies and there will be no need to kill them. They can't be that hard to invent compared to a moon landing, an artificial hip, or the perfect gin and tonic.

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Jul 21, 2019 20:56:28   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Huzza to Permi and Son

An excellent dialogue on an extremely difficult topic...

Cheers to you both

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Jul 21, 2019 22:02:05   #
Big Kahuna
 
son of witless wrote:
So , if I may ask, when exactly does life in a human begin ?


Perm thinks a life begins after the baby has been murdered at 9+ months that's how sick he is.

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Jul 21, 2019 23:44:44   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
flash wrote:
You're looking at it from the wrong angle.


Is that a form of Birth Control, looking at it from the wrong angle?

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Jul 21, 2019 23:47:43   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
permafrost wrote:
wide debate on that.

Some societies believe when the baby takes its first breath on its own, then it is human as gifted by God.

Our Christian Bible has verses which support this idea..

I fall on the side that the baby must be able to live outside of Mom to be human..

But I have some conflict with just when on a time line that would be..


So premies as early as 20+ weeks have survived. Before the third Trimester. Why should late term abortion be allowed?

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Jul 22, 2019 04:32:54   #
Ricktloml
 
Peewee wrote:
So your ego is healthy, but your brain is a little foggy. It's a baby, not a fetus. It's alive and growing until it's murdered. Sort of like any crop, the seed gets planted and if the conditions are right it grows until it becomes ripe and is born. The baby or plant gets nutrients from the soil but the farmer planted the seed. It takes both. Do you allow parasites to destroy your garden? PP is a parasite organization. They even fired the latest head of PP, a Ms. Wen, because she wanted to offer the services PP always say they support and offer and wouldn't agree to lie and say there are more than two genders. Plus they are selling body parts which are ILLEGAL. Biology wasn't your best subject, was it? Justice isn't or shouldn't be an ala carte thing depending on which side of the aisle one is on. You appear to believe in situational ethics instead of right and wrong or good and evil. What do you have against binary options? Computers even work on ones and zeros.
So your ego is healthy, but your brain is a little... (show quote)


As for the Bible's take: Jeremiah 1:4 The Word of the LORD came to me, saying Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born, I set you apart... Life has ALWAYS began at conception. The savage, barbaric butchering of the unborn is not only un-Christian, but uncivilized. And NO ONE should be able to choose to murder innocent baby. The abortionists need to dehumanize their victims.

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Jul 22, 2019 08:48:32   #
bahmer
 
Ricktloml wrote:
As for the Bible's take: Jeremiah 1:4 The Word of the LORD came to me, saying Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born, I set you apart... Life has ALWAYS began at conception. The savage, barbaric butchering of the unborn is not only un-Christian, but uncivilized. And NO ONE should be able to choose to murder innocent baby. The abortionists need to dehumanize their victims.


Sort of like the holocaust where the Jews were dehumanized to where they were less than human and thus justified there killing by the Germans. Or the black slave was dehumanized and thus it was legal to use them as slaves and even kill them at will. Or the American Indian that was dehumanized and forced to live on a reservation. That is what mankind has always done isn't it? So to dehumanize the baby and then call it a fetus makes it less than human and therefore justifies its murder. If you called it a baby human then it would be murder to kill it and sell the parts for money so just give it a different name and you are home free.

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Jul 22, 2019 10:00:00   #
son of witless
 
drlarrygino wrote:
Perm thinks a life begins after the baby has been murdered at 9+ months that's how sick he is.


You got to watch out for those post birth abortions.

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Jul 22, 2019 12:44:03   #
Ricktloml
 
bahmer wrote:
Sort of like the holocaust where the Jews were dehumanized to where they were less than human and thus justified there killing by the Germans. Or the black slave was dehumanized and thus it was legal to use them as slaves and even kill them at will. Or the American Indian that was dehumanized and forced to live on a reservation. That is what mankind has always done isn't it? So to dehumanize the baby and then call it a fetus makes it less than human and therefore justifies its murder. If you called it a baby human then it would be murder to kill it and sell the parts for money so just give it a different name and you are home free.
Sort of like the holocaust where the Jews were deh... (show quote)


And the left is great at twisting language. In socialist/communist countries they label their government agencies with names like the ministry of truth, which is used to railroad anyone who dissents to prison. The plain truth is the left can't afford to be honest about their agenda, they have to sugarcoat their goals because they know most people don't want to be serfs or slaves to the state, OR butcher a BABY

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Jul 22, 2019 15:39:33   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
bahmer wrote:
Amen and Amen now we should revisit Roe vs. Wade and reverse it and outlaw abortions.


Be a nice touch.

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Jul 22, 2019 18:17:08   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
https://catholiccitizens.org/news/88061/judge-upholds-david-daleidens-1st-amendment-right-to-expose-planned-parenthood-aborted-baby-part-sales/Judge Upholds David Daleiden’s 1st Amendment Right to Expose Planned Parenthood Aborted Baby Part Sales
07/18/2019 at 10:20 PM Posted by Kevin Edward White

Great News! It is about time. We knew this was a bogus lawsuit brought by Planned Parenthood against David Daleiden. Only a few more issues to resolve before complete vindication.


By: Steven Ertelt, LifeNews.com, July 18, 2019

Undercover investigator David Daleiden has been vindicated in court today against the bogus lawsuit Planned Parenthood filed after his videos exposed the abortion giant for selling aborted baby parts.

Daleiden has maintained from the beginning that he and the Center for Medical Progress followed all applicable laws in the course of its investigative journalism and that the lawsuit was politically-motivated retribution as opposed to a suit based on legitimate damages.

In a big victory for the First Amendment freedoms of citizen journalists on Wednesday evening, a federal judge in San Francisco indicated his intent to decisively cut back Planned Parenthood’s retaliatory lawsuit against The Center for Medical Progress for the undercover videos documenting Planned Parenthood’s sale of aborted baby parts.

In his tentative ruling, which he instructed the parties to treat as if it were substantially final, Judge William Orrick III rejected Planned Parenthood’s false and long-running smear that accused CMP citizen journalists, including David Daleiden, of attempting to incite “threats” and “violence” by publishing the undercover videos.

Judge Orrick wrote he was “inclined to exclude from the case all damages that stem from third parties’ reactions to the release of the video recordings as impermissible damages barred by the First Amendment absent a defamation claim.”Judge Orrick left in place only “damages for investigating intrusions” into Planned Parenthood’s space, and “improvements to access-security measures for conferences and facilities,” as well as nominal and statutory damages.

David Daleiden, CMP founder and project lead, told LifeNews: “Now that all the facts, evidence, and testimony are in, even Planned Parenthood’s favorite judge refuses to buy into the abortion giant’s fake news and lies about the honest motives and protected speech of pro-life citizen journalists. Planned Parenthood is a government-sponsored crime syndicate selling baby body parts like widgets on an assembly line and should only appear in federal court as a criminal defendant.”

“Planned Parenthood is a government-sponsored crime syndicate selling baby body parts like widgets on an assembly line and should only appear in federal court as a criminal defendant.”

Planned Parenthood sought more than $20 million in damages, but the Obama-appointed judge eviscerated that far-reaching request. The ruling significantly downsizes Planned Parenthood’s lawsuit, reducing potentially over $20 million at issue to less than $100,000.

According to a CMP statement to LifeNews, the “ruling affirms that citizen journalists exercising their First Amendment rights to speak and publish cannot be held liable for any bad actions taken by others in the free marketplace of ideas, absent a clear showing of defamation or intent to incite imminent lawless action. Planned Parenthood could provide no evidence or testimony in the case to back up either accusation, and so a lawsuit that was once an avalanche of charges has been reduced to essentially a trespassing dispute.”

Judge Orrick previously faced scrutiny presiding over the case because of his history founding, promoting, and donating to a Planned Parenthood clinic in San Francisco run by Plaintiff Planned Parenthood Northern California. That he would rule so strongly against Planned Parenthood speaks volumes.

Article first appeared at: HTTPS://WWW.LIFENEWS.COM/2019/07/18/JUDGE-UPHOLDS-DAVID-DALEIDENS-1ST-AMENDMENT-RIGHT-TO-EXPOSE-PLANNED-PARENTHOOD-ABORTED-BABY-PART-SALES/

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