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Hey Democrats, or people on the Left Take a look at this, caution this is very scary:
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Jun 17, 2019 00:54:06   #
Seth
 
[quote=Ricktloml][quote=Seth]Reread my post. Reread your post.

You're the one who referred to Social Security as socialism. I said it isn't, because the money one receives after retiring is money one has paid in himself, not "free" money off the back of other taxpayers.

I also mentioned that this specifically refers to retirement Social Security. If anything, it is giving the recipient the short end of the stick because a personal retirement account with the same denominations over the same four decades and change, bearing interest, would pay more than double to the retiree.

However, you're wrong on certain issues. Why should, say, a wage earner with no children or one whose children are tradesmen or military pay other people's children's college tuition, or a healthy young person pay taxes for the healthcare of someone who could afford their own insurance, or pay for the abortion of a stranger, particularly if he/she doesn't support abortion? Why should anyone's taxes have to finance the ever-expanding bureaucracies that accompany every single Democrat agenda?

And what you still don't get is that the smothersome taxation entailed in socialism would cost jobs in the private sector, which pay the salaries, benefits and retirements of those overblown bureaucracies, putting still more people on government doles.

This would continue to snowball until we have a full blown Venezuela on our hands, and this is not conjecture, it is a reality that has proven out every single time a country has gone socialist. How many times does something need to fail before you dumbjohns realize that the outcome doesn't change? [/quote

But, but the "right tyrant" hasn't been in charge yet. The new tyrant will MAKE it work THIS time. They aren't called useful idiots for nothing. They fall for the same garbage EVERY time, the words don't even change, the outcomes don't change, the ONLY thing that changes is the new tyrant, which the useful idiots assure us is the answer, over and over again.[/quote]

I suppose those dupes are the ones Charles M. Schultz was depicting with the repeated debacle of Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football.

https://youtu.be/XWGuzwj4DSs

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Jun 17, 2019 01:38:45   #
PeterS
 
Ricktloml wrote:
And of course in order to accept this false utopia you have to ignore history. This great societal ideal has resulted in unmitigated failure EVERY single time it's been tried. And part of that failure is imprisonment, torture and death for any who dare to dissent. From the USSR to Communist China, to Cuba, and more recently Venezuela the exact same promises were made, and the same results occurred. Equality? Yes abject misery for 99% of the population, (those that survive the purges,) and ultimate power and control for the liars that promised everything, and delivered worse than nothing.
And of course in order to accept this false utopia... (show quote)

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Jun 17, 2019 12:14:14   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
Seth wrote:
Reread my post. Reread your post.

You're the one who referred to Social Security as socialism. I said it isn't, because the money one receives after retiring is money one has paid in himself, not "free" money off the back of other taxpayers.

I also mentioned that this specifically refers to retirement Social Security. If anything, it is giving the recipient the short end of the stick because a personal retirement account with the same denominations over the same four decades and change, bearing interest, would pay more than double to the retiree.

However, you're wrong on certain issues. Why should, say, a wage earner with no children or one whose children are tradesmen or military pay other people's children's college tuition, or a healthy young person pay taxes for the healthcare of someone who could afford their own insurance, or pay for the abortion of a stranger, particularly if he/she doesn't support abortion? Why should anyone's taxes have to finance the ever-expanding bureaucracies that accompany every single Democrat agenda?

And what you still don't get is that the smothersome taxation entailed in socialism would cost jobs in the private sector, which pay the salaries, benefits and retirements of those overblown bureaucracies, putting still more people on government doles.

This would continue to snowball until we have a full blown Venezuela on our hands, and this is not conjecture, it is a reality that has proven out every single time a country has gone socialist. How many times does something need to fail before you dumbjohns realize that the outcome doesn't change?
Reread my post. Reread your post. br br You're th... (show quote)


I have to add one comment. If the socialists win the election and have their way there will be more government departments with many more employees to run those departments. Which would cost the taxpayer much more money.

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Jun 17, 2019 12:29:04   #
Seth
 
Louie27 wrote:
I have to add one comment. If the socialists win the election and have their way there will be more government departments with many more employees to run those departments. Which would cost the taxpayer much more money.


Including all the retirement pensions down the road, which are higher than the Social Security benefits received by the rank and file citizens who will be forced to finance those pensions.

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Jun 18, 2019 08:22:10   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
PeterS wrote:
Do you think the "average American" rejected social security and then Medicare when they were offered? Did they scream NO, SOCIALISM to education for their children? These are all elements of our economy that weren't addressed by Capitalism. There were no private schools for the average or below American. The average American wasn't paid enough to save for his retirement. And health care? You could forget it. Capitalism didn't address health care and it still doesn't address health care. And if we can provide K-12 then we can provide 4 more years or 2 years of technical training.

None of that is outlandish or something the "Average American" object's too. No, the only ones who will object are the radical right and no one else. There is nothing average about you at all. You are 20% to 30% of the population and nothing more. You are a minority and one that isn't worth listening to.

Right now, the only reason for our "booming" economy is because we are borrowing a trillion dollars a year and pumping it into the economy and Billionaires bank account. That isn't Capitalism. Capitalism doesn't revolve around an endless number of handouts disguised as tax cuts to the wealthy.
Do you think the "average American" reje... (show quote)


The most troubling part of Socialism, Communism, and Capitalism is summed up right here:
In the case of health care: Who decides who lives and who dies.

In Socialism and Communism the decision is left to whomsoever is in charge. Pete do you want to be that person? At first it may seem appealing, but in the end it would be a dreadful job, that I would rather dig a ditch in the desert under conditions of 120 degrees in the shade.

In Capitalism, we as the human race can leave the decision up to God and Nature. In socialism and communism a man(or a woman) has to make that decision.

If the country does not have enough food, who gets the food that remains? In a country that has only a certain number of medicine, who gets the medicine?

If you can honestly answer these questions without conscience and determine who logically deserves to live or die, then you have just become a dictator. Not a person seeking life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness but yet a person seeking the demise of others. That is socialism.

What makes America Great in the first place? It is the fact that the equal people will stand up for themselves and fight for themselves independent of any government. If we push upon the people, a philosophy of dependency upon the government of this great republic, it shall fail. Not today or tomorrow but sometime in the future the country will fall. The reason is because you are so willing to sell your freedom down the river, than try to survive by your reason and wits.

Free Healthcare and free education for all, will doom the country. Obamacare would not work, not because of the merits of the system, nor how it was implemented, Obamacare failed because of human greed. The same reason Communism failed. And the same reason Socialism fails. Human Greed!

Capitalism succeeds because human greed could not take it over. In the free enterprise system, we know its a game of monopoly. Where in the market place people buy and sell products/services or companies. But just like the Parker Brother's game teaches us, one company will end up winning in the end. But that is where most people stop listening or even quit playing the game but life does not end here, and in capitalism, it doesn't end there. The Big Company that took over all the ground in the market, and becomes a monopoly then must be split up and the game begins a new. This is when new ideas, come forth and the quality of life increases in everyone.

Look at AT&T in the past. AT&T was a monopoly. When the company split, then new technology was utilized bringing forth the advent of Sprint, Verizon and Cricket. The medium changed with technological advancement building upon AT&T. Thus, the consumer and the worker all benefited with the new cycle of the marketplace, which would have never come to be, if AT&T not been forced to break up. This is the evolution of capitalism. In socialism, technology would be starved by the one who controls it.

Where as we in capitalism went from horse and buggy, to landing on the moon in less than 100 years. A monarchy, socialism, and communism took much longer.

The down side of capitalism is just this: The poor become rich, and the rich feel sorry for the poor. Therefore the rich push their agenda upon the poor, because the rich feel the poor could become rich. But the agenda of the rich may not be what the poor needs, therefore in a desperate situation, the majority vote away capitalism.

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Jun 18, 2019 08:39:46   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
PeterS wrote:
If that were true there would be no discussion of change. If you can't afford either education or health care then you can't say that capitalism is meeting the needs of the majority...


Why?? Is it not the majority that are sustaining our economy??

What did we learn in the last recession?? No work, no economy.. Dependence we were all becoming. In that environment the majority was also unemployed, tax revenue went by the wayside, and dependency to government was staggering...

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