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Why are Jews hated and discriminated against all through history?
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Jun 14, 2019 11:29:34   #
Kazudy
 
Richard Rowland wrote:
The book, "Final Judgement" by Michael Collins Piper, connects Myer Lansky to Israel's creation. It's been reported, you can probably Google that Harry Truman, needing money to run his campaign, signed off on the idea. And, again consulting Google, history outlining the treatment of Palestinians can be found.

Also, while I don't recall names, people in a position to know were aware of the trouble that would be caused by the creation of a Jewish State. There's a wealth of information, depending on how long it's allowed to be available before being removed, that can be found if one cares to look.

Also, if I recall the names correctly, you can check out the activities of the Haganah and Irgun organizations.
The book, "Final Judgement" by Michael C... (show quote)


So are the 12 tribes of Israel are made up fiction, or what?

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Jun 14, 2019 11:49:44   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
Pennylynn wrote:
And he also said: "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews." In other words, he did not always tell the truth. 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/9-21.htm

If you go by destinations of Ham, Shem, and Japheth and the birthplace of Saul/Paul, that would put him from the line of Japheth as he was born in what is modern day Turkey. Incidentally, he ministered to Greeks and died in Rome. However, I have not guarantee that he was from Japheth line and I should have added a qualifier to my statement, Saul "most probably descended from Japheth." https://www.bible-history.com/old-testament/desc-shem-ham-japheth.html
And he also said: "To the Jews I became like ... (show quote)


Or his father lived in Tarshish. Many Jews were displaced over the years. He was a religious Jew and a Pharisee who learned under Gamaliel. He identified himself as a Benjamite (I wonder if he was left handed). The passage you quote shows he adapted to the people he was trying to reach. It has nothing to do with his truthfulness, unless you are trying to read something in to it because of prejudice. I have never heard the Japheth theory you are proposing and I assume it was a latter day defense agains Saul/Paul.

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Jun 14, 2019 12:46:28   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
truthiness wrote:
...
Long, but not too long to give great insight to these issues.
"One last question," he keeps saying, but...
So, poor Moses is prohibited from going into Canaan. But he leaves with prophetic promises for each of the tribes in Deut 33. Even Reuben, who was not blessed with much by his father, as a tribe is given new life.
Judah is obviously treated well and the language seems to indicate the leadership role that you mentioned above (the Davidic covenant).
I am always surprised at the dual blessing given to Joseph through his sons Ephraim and Manasseh. Joseph saved the family from starvation. But the richness and the double portion to Joseph's sons seems out of proportion to even Judah's blessings.
Maybe we should consider these prophecies of future events rather than blessings per se?
Are these blessings considered end-times events?
Is there a meaning in the Hebrew given to "...push the people together to the ends of the earth." I.e., is the KJV translation on solid ground here, and what does the imagery try to convey?
... br Long, but not too long to give great insigh... (show quote)




I read that the first Pope was Julius Caesar...the first "Pontifex maximus"

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Jun 14, 2019 14:08:24   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
amadjuster wrote:
Or his father lived in Tarshish. Many Jews were displaced over the years. He was a religious Jew and a Pharisee who learned under Gamaliel. He identified himself as a Benjamite (I wonder if he was left handed). The passage you quote shows he adapted to the people he was trying to reach. It has nothing to do with his truthfulness, unless you are trying to read something in to it because of prejudice. I have never heard the Japheth theory you are proposing and I assume it was a latter day defense agains Saul/Paul.
Or his father lived in Tarshish. Many Jews were d... (show quote)


Who here are aware the the Throne of England it the Throne of David?

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Jun 14, 2019 14:23:02   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Who here are aware the the Throne of England it the Throne of David?


Ephraim!

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Jun 14, 2019 14:29:42   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
amadjuster wrote:
Or his father lived in Tarshish. Many Jews were displaced over the years. He was a religious Jew and a Pharisee who learned under Gamaliel. He identified himself as a Benjamite (I wonder if he was left handed). The passage you quote shows he adapted to the people he was trying to reach. It has nothing to do with his truthfulness, unless you are trying to read something in to it because of prejudice. I have never heard the Japheth theory you are proposing and I assume it was a latter day defense agains Saul/Paul.
Or his father lived in Tarshish. Many Jews were d... (show quote)


Actually in the book of Acts, Saul gives his birthplace as "Tarsus, a city in Cilicia" Cilicia became a Roman province in 64 B.C. after it was conquered by Pompey. Tarsus was a Hellenized city. See the map. I do not know where his father lived, and frankly do not care. In regards to the quote, it is his quote. If this quote has nothing to do with truthfulness, then what is it? So, are you saying that you are allowed to "adapt" the truth if it gets the end results you want? As for Japheth, start with Genesis 10:2, then see Ezekiel 27 and 38, and Daniel 5, 6 and 8. Finally, what you believe is what you believe.... who am I to question your faith? I deal in facts, things that can be researched and some amount of continuity can be found from separate sources.... faith is personal and is above argument.



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Jun 14, 2019 16:40:34   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Who here are aware the the Throne of England it the Throne of David?


You must have listened to Garner Ted Armstrong.

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Jun 14, 2019 16:47:06   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Actually in the book of Acts, Saul gives his birthplace as "Tarsus, a city in Cilicia" Cilicia became a Roman province in 64 B.C. after it was conquered by Pompey. Tarsus was a Hellenized city. See the map. I do not know where his father lived, and frankly do not care. In regards to the quote, it is his quote. If this quote has nothing to do with truthfulness, then what is it? So, are you saying that you are allowed to "adapt" the truth if it gets the end results you want? As for Japheth, start with Genesis 10:2, then see Ezekiel 27 and 38, and Daniel 5, 6 and 8. Finally, what you believe is what you believe.... who am I to question your faith? I deal in facts, things that can be researched and some amount of continuity can be found from separate sources.... faith is personal and is above argument.
Actually in the book of Acts, Saul gives his birth... (show quote)


I am not sure why you have become combative. I was quoting what Paul wrote and have no reason to doubt it. I have a completely different view on what the scripture said. I see it as showing Paul to able to blend in, not as a liar. I can see a lot of long held animosity toward Paul, especially in your unique interpretation of Revelation. I do not see it as showing John attacking Christians. I see it as a book of prophesy showing the ultimate overcoming of evil by Jesus Christ coming to save the remnant of Israel in the land of Israel. If this causes offense, it was not intended. I am attaching a photo of Qumron I took in 2000. I have been to Israel.



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Jun 14, 2019 16:50:10   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
amadjuster wrote:
You must have listened to Garner Ted Armstrong.


No, I never had the pleasure. I looked him up, after your suggestion, and found that he is dead, but there are sources for his books.... if you recommend him then I will do some research into his theories. Did you enjoy his presentations?

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Jun 14, 2019 17:42:05   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
amadjuster wrote:
I am not sure why you have become combative. I was quoting what Paul wrote and have no reason to doubt it. I have a completely different view on what the scripture said. I see it as showing Paul to able to blend in, not as a liar. I can see a lot of long held animosity toward Paul, especially in your unique interpretation of Revelation. I do not see it as showing John attacking Christians. I see it as a book of prophesy showing the ultimate overcoming of evil by Jesus Christ coming to save the remnant of Israel in the land of Israel. If this causes offense, it was not intended. I am attaching a photo of Qumron I took in 2000. I have been to Israel.
I am not sure why you have become combative. I wa... (show quote)


I am not "combative" or even argumentative. Saul said what he said and that seems to be alright with you.... okay. The first 3 chapters of Revelation was clearly written to several churches. Apparently after John's letters were received by the churches they reassessed their churches. In Saul/Paul's second letter to Timothy, Saul/Paul declared that "all those in Asia have turned away from me" (2 Timothy 1:15). In Acts 19, Luke tells us the Ephesian synagogue where Saul/Paul taught for three months and where there were substantial converts to Christ finally expelled Paul.

Note that he does not say that the believers in Asia abandoned the Christian faith. Paul does not say that they abandoned the original Apostles of Jesus. Paul says only that the believers in Asia abandoned himself.

The entire first 3 chapters of Revelation was written to Saul's churches. It is worthwhile to read these chapters and pay close attention to what was being said, the wrongs.... to learn from them so as not to repeat their mistakes.

And, at no place have I claimed that John attacked Christians. He was an instrument who was the scribe, the book was dictated verbally and by vision what he was to write. Words of warning are not attacks but are ordinarily intended to provide heads up so an individual/institution/country or a church can change before it is too late.

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Jun 14, 2019 20:48:21   #
truthiness
 
Pennylynn wrote:
I am not sure I understand your question. Are you asking why Moses could not enter the Promised Land? Simply, there were times when he put himself equal to G*d. I also think there was a second reason, he was by now very old and his health was failing. Imagine the stress of 40 years of being the hammer... G*d made the laws and Moses was the enforcer, the 3 million people seemed to have spent every waking moment thinking of things to complain about or ways to break G*d's laws and not get caught. If you read the bible you can not help but notice that he was tired of doing a thankless job and he probably was relieved at the end, although saddened that he would not see the promised land.

When you read Deuteronomy 33, you have to know that Moses did not author it or even dictate it to a scribe... Moses is referred to in the 3d person. There are issues in translations of this Chapter, many odd words appear and many misspellings. To me it is as if one editor took all the verbal stories and what was written, copied everything down and kept what the editor liked and tossed the rest aside without much regard to syntax errors. Regardless, we can make sense of it.... and it is important to understand why the blessings were given in the way they were. So... shall we dig in?

It would be helpful to you to have an old map of the region... for the sequence of the blessings do not follow tradition... first born and so on. So, you can use the map I provided or download one for your use. Beginning with Reuben the next tribe mentioned is Judah, where the Israelites would first cross into the Promised Land. Then after Levi, the order of tribal blessings follow a path that heads northward through Benjamin, and then into the contiguous regions of Ephraim and Manasseh (the Joseph tribes), next Zebulun and its neighbor to the east, Issachar. Continuing east we watch the blessing order in Deuteronomy 33 cross back over the Jordan (into the Transjordan region) and into the territory of Gad, then north to Dan, south from Dan to Naphtali, and finally westward to Asher. Levi, which was given no territory, is dealt with in between the blessings given to Judah and Benjamin, undoubtedly because this was the area where Jerusalem would one day exist and where the priests of Levi would serve at the great Temple.

You ask about Rueben, he and Gad along with approximately ½ of the clans formed tribe of Manasseh and settled on the east side of the Jordan River (the so-called Trans-Jordan). Their placement is logical, Ruben was Jacob’s firstborn son. Although earlier Jacob removed the firstborn rights of inheritance traditionally due to Reuben because he had sexual relations with Jacob’s concubine Bilah. So the firstborn inheritance was split into two part, and one part of it went to Judah and the other part to Joseph (technically it went to Joseph’s son Ephraim). Judah was given the right to rule over Israel while Ephraim was given the double-portion part of the firstborn blessing, meaning wealth and abounding fruitfulness ABOVE all of his other brothers.

The blessing is in the form of a plea to the Lord that the tribe of Reuben would “live and not die." He was not asking that Ruben become immortal, he was asking for G*d to watch over the tribe and not allow it to become extinct through absorption of it by another tribe of Israel OR by Reuben being conquered and assimilated by a foreign culture. And it would seem that G*d heard this request, for we see it survived as a separate tribe well into the time of the Judges and it is also mentioned in the earliest era of the Kings.

The next tribe is the Levites, G*d set them apart early on as Priest and the blessing is focused around their role in society as teachers of G*d’s Law and officiators of the all-important rituals. Specifically the use of the Urim and the Thummim. Moses prays that these stones would remain in the hands of the Levites (“faithful ones”), and that G*d would continue to reflect his will through the use of those two stones. After the subject of the Urim and Thummim, Moses refers to the Levites as those who were tested at Massah and Meribah. This is important, all Israel went through this ordeal but it was a test. Would the Levites who were being measured by the Lord, qualify or be the right choice to be His personal Priests.

Benjamin would occupy a small territory as a sort of buffer region between the two most powerful tribes: Ephraim and Judah. It is in this territory that the Temple would be built. Then we have the Joseph Tribes and the placement is important, for in my opinion (being a farmer myself) got the best placement.... the blessing from the deep (artisan wells), abundance of rain and sun, fertile lands that could produce almost year round, the hills with wood and metals.... a perfect area for an agrarian society to prosper. Although others seemed to be more blessed with their inheritance.... Joseph got the cherry on top!

At this point I think it prudent to bring up one of the issues I mentioned earlier, and oddity one would think. Verse 17, says that he is like a firstling bull in majesty and that he has horns like a Wild Ox. A firstling Bull is one of the highest sacrifices that can be offered at the Tabernacle, 2nd only to the mature 3-year old bull and it denotes great strength. A Wild Ox goring its enemies is symbolic of a strong warrior that is mighty in battle. Ephraim eventually dominated the northern regions of Israel with 9 other northern tribes (including his brother tribe Manesseh) coming under its dominance. They eventually extended their reach to the ends of the earth but it came in an ironic way; they were conquered by the Assyrians and forcibly scattered throughout the vast Asian continent. They became the "lost" as they interbred with gentiles and lost their Hebrew identity.... this was prophesied by Hosea and Isaiah, and in the Book of Hosea G*d said that those 10 tribes would become a lo-ammi, a non-people. But, it did not say that they would remain lost...
`
As for the rest of the blessings.... there is only two worth much attention. Gad was one of the 3 tribes that, all or in part, decided to accept territory OUTSIDE of the Promised Land as their portion. And then there is Simeon. Simeon was cursed along with Levi because together the two conspired to attack the helpless residents of Shechem in ages past, for family revenge. History proves that Simeon wound up as a very small, non-influential tribe and found itself completely surrounded by Judah’s territory so it was pretty well doomed from the get-go. Not terribly long after the tribes of Israel settled in Canaan the tribe of Simeon was absorbed by Judah and they vanished as a separate territory and generally speaking as a separate self-governing tribe. Interesting....this reduced the 12 tribes to only 11.

Does this help.... or confuse?
I am not sure I understand your question. Are you... (show quote)

...
So much to learn, so little time. Thank you yet again for your monumental efforts. Have a wonderful weekend.

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Jun 14, 2019 21:04:24   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
Pennylynn wrote:
No, I never had the pleasure. I looked him up, after your suggestion, and found that he is dead, but there are sources for his books.... if you recommend him then I will do some research into his theories. Did you enjoy his presentations?


Garner Ted was a slick minister of British Israel. He believed the Anglo-Saxons were actually the “10 lost tribes”. Garner Ted had a roving eye and his daddy booted him out of the church.

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Jun 14, 2019 21:20:16   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
amadjuster wrote:
Garner Ted was a slick minister of British Israel. He believed the Anglo-Saxons were actually the “10 lost tribes”. Garner Ted had a roving eye and his daddy booted him out of the church.


Did you ever attend the Worldwide church?

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Jun 14, 2019 21:45:46   #
Richard Rowland
 
[quote=amadjuster]Garner Ted was a slick minister of British Israel. He believed the Anglo-Saxons were actually the “10 lost tribes”. Garner Ted had a roving eye and his daddy booted him out of the church.[/quote}


I'll google Garder Ted, to learn more about his roving eye. However, having a roving eye doesn't make one bad. And, it takes two to tango. I always chuckle when hearing of a guy being accused of what having a roving eye implies. I say more power to 'em.

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Jun 14, 2019 22:02:33   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
truthiness wrote:
...
So much to learn, so little time. Thank you yet again for your monumental efforts. Have a wonderful weekend.


You are very welcome. Do have a wonderful weekend!

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