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Why are Jews hated and discriminated against all through history?
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Jun 13, 2019 16:01:04   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
I am not sure what you are driving at, Penny.
I take it you believe Jesus/Yahshua was not God or God's son in the flesh, or the Messiah.
If Jesus was not the messiah, when will the Messiah ever show up?

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 16:42:29   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
eagleye13 wrote:
I am not sure what you are driving at, Penny.
I take it you believe Jesus/Yahshua was not God or God's son in the flesh, or the Messiah.
If Jesus was not the messiah, when will the Messiah ever show up?


I am not "driving at" anything. I am offering you a different point of view from whatever website you copied your information. My Poppa and I spent many days discussing different religions, we spent almost 2 years discussing two subsets of world Christianity that consists of 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural blocs, divided into 300 major ecclesiastical traditions, composed of over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries. So, we only began to map the similarities/conflicts.

This aside, I see that you have not prepared a response or discussion of the comments I submitted. And you did not respond to request for you expound on the "migrations of 10 Tribed Israel, and the Israelites of today." I am not sure what a "tribed" might be, but I assume that you intended "tribes."

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 17:46:41   #
truthiness
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Criticism is a useful tool, I never take offense when someone corrects, criticize, or expands my comments.... providing they are not hostile and demanding in their method. You were not offensive, so I took it as a useful tool to make my comments better.. G*d always listens, although some say he does not listen to a sinner...I find the notion illogical, if He does not listen to everyone, then we could never be forgiven for our mistakes when we ask? Moses.... you have to love this guy, he did not have the virtues that one would call desirable.... he was impatient, arrogant, and stubborn.

I have never had a desire to visit a feminist website, but then I have lived a blessed life.
Criticism is a useful tool, I never take offense w... (show quote)

...
I do love Moses because he saved Israel from utter destruction of God himself; Ex 32: 11-14.

Not wanting to wear out my welcome or and at the risk of tiring you from continually having to make your informative long and detailed responses, I would like to venture one more issue that has bothered me for some time: Jeremiah 31:31-37. Israel has always considered itself to be a covenant people based, I think, on the promises to the fathers, especially Abraham, and the events on Sinai.
I will pose different questions, but I think they are pretty much the same.
1) Does rabbinical Jewry accept the book of Jeremiah as prophetic?
2) v 31: Is there any reason for using 'house of Judah' and 'house of Israel' separately--or is he just making sure we know that all of Israel is being included?
3) v32: Indicates that an original covenant was broken. Is israel, particularly the Jews, consider itself to still living under a covenant--the original covenant?
4) v33: Seems to indicate that Israel (but not the Jews?) is not a covenant people--at least at the time of the writing of the text.
5) v34: What sin? Does this refer back to v32?
6) v36: Do you know what the antecedent of 'ordinances" is? Does it refer back to the new covenant of vv33,34?

I have always had trouble understanding the meaning of these verses premised on my assumption that Judah still thinks of itself living under the original covenant.

Reply
 
 
Jun 13, 2019 18:23:26   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
Pennylynn wrote:
So, let us first understand how inheritance works (as it still does in Jewish families), the sum of all wealth to include titles are divided between the male children. The first born son gets the titles and authority along with the grand share of wealth. So, for instance, if a man had 4 sons, he would divide all he had into 5 parts, and give his firstborn son 2 of those five parts, and then the remaining 3 sons each got 1 part. Now do you understand why Hagar had to be sent away.

Let us talk about which sons got what.... First, Ham (recall that he was cursed for his behavior when he found his father naked)…..we need to pay close attention to these names, for they will play a prominent role in the Bible. Cush is Ethiopia. Mizraim is Egypt. Put is Libya, and Canaan is the founder of the Land of Canaan, conquered by Joshua, which became Israel; those descendants of Canaan form many of the people of the Middle East and the Orient, some of which are often, mistakenly, called Arabs. Arabs are of the line of Shem, not Ham. Kush was the father of the infamous Ashur or known better by his Babylonian name of Nimrod, a black man. This is not at all conjecture; many figurines and etchings of Nimrod have been found, going back thousands of years, and they all confirm his Negro features. Ancient Assyrian tablets, found in large quantities, not only mention Nimrod, they confirm the title for him that we see in 10:9….. “mighty hunter”. But, as the Assyrian tablets explain, this is not because he was good at killing deer, fowl, rabbits, or wild boars. This expression means “a hunter of men”….. a warrior. Nimrod is important as he was the founder of Bavel (Bav-el meant the city of G*d), which we now call Babylon associated with the "Tower." Technically, the tower was a Ziggurat, a kind of a step pyramid. Quite a few Ziggurats have been discovered in Iraq and Iran. There is more to this, especially when one considers the meaning of unity and how G*d has a particular disliking for unity.

Now verse 13 tells us that the Philistines came from the line of Ham, we need to remember that the modern word for Philistine, is Palestine. The Palestinians of today claim to be descendants of the Philistines who are descended from Ham. In fact, that is not true. The bulk of the Palestinians are Arabs (Muslims) from various areas of the Middle East, who came as immigrants to the Holy Land area over the last 75 -100 years seeking work on Jewish farms and in Jewish factories; and Arabs are not from the line of Ham, they are from the line of Shem. This will become clear if you keep reading the bible through Exodus. We see a list of tribes spawned by Canaan in verses 15-18. Later, during the Exodus from Egypt, you’ll see many of these names reappear as enemies of the Israelites who will try to keep them out of the Promised Land.

Moving onward to verse 21 we get the inheritance of Shem. Shem means name; the word “name” is not referring to Bob, or Elizabeth, or Fred; this Hebrew word shem would be better translated as “reputation” as it carries with it the sense of power and authority. In a nutshell, you’ll notice that Shem is referred to as the “father” or “ancestor” of the children or descendants of Ever, or Eber. This is key to Hebrew history because from the line of Eber would come another of G*d’s divisions: Peleg and Yoktan. Peleg and Yoktan were brothers, sons of Ever. Interestingly, Peleg means “division”. For, from the line of Peleg came Abraham, from whom G*d’s plan to rescue all of mankind, to restore fallen man to Himself, would come. We also get a few other insights about Abraham and his family. For instance, his father was Terach, and Abraham had two brothers….. at least two……. and their names were Nachor and Haran. Haran had a son named Lot. We see that Abraham married a woman named Sarai (we later find out that she was the daughter of another of his father’s wives…… so Sarai would have been Abraham’s half-sister). Of interest is verse 31. It seems that it was initially Terach, not Abraham, who FIRST got the call to take his family and move to the land of Canaan. When Terach got that call he and his family were living in the city of Ur of the Chaldees. The Chaldees was an ancient culture of that area; Sumer was the region’s name, and Ur was in essence the capital city. It was also a very wicked place; in fact it was the cultural center for the worship of the moon-god Hurki. (this is interesting due to the name change of Hurki... but, that is for another time). Terach did leave Ur, but instead of heading southwest to Canaan, he went northwest to Mesopotamia. When they arrived at a certain city, they decided to stay instead of going on to Canaan. Why, we’re not told. But, it was there that Abraham’s brother, Haran, died. And, the city was named after him sometime later. Of special note, at this time, Abraham was not yet called Abraham…… he was called Abram, or in Hebrew, Avram, which meant “exalted father”. It would be several years before G*d changed his name from Avram to Avraham, which meant “father of many.” From this comes the Covenant, which is a subject unto itself.

No, I did not forget about the youngest of the brothers. The immediate descendants of Japheth were seven in number, and are represented by the nations designated Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Mesech, and Tiras; or, roughly, the Armenians, Lydians, Medes, Greeks, Tibarenians, and Moschians, the last, Tiras, remaining still obscure. The sons of Gomer (Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah) were all settled in the West Asian tract; while the sons of Javan (Elisah, Tarshish, Kittim and Dodanim or Rodanim) occupied the Mediterranean coast and the adjacent islands. Ergo, this is the line which Saul aka Paul came from and explains why his letters encompass the vast majority of the New Testament.

At another time we can discuss the book of Ezekiel because it is that book which answers the majority of your original question.... who are the Jews that the bible focuses on.

I hope this explains why the Middle East will not see peace until the end days.
So, let us first understand how inheritance works ... (show quote)


Saul/Paul identified himself as a Benjamite.

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 18:51:56   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
Pennylynn wrote:
There is so much copied and pasted information in this comment that a single response is almost impossible. So, let us start where you started. Revelations.

Have you read Revelations? I am sure you have, if you are a Christian or have an interest in history. How do you understand this book? What I am asking are you reading it with modern understanding of events or are you reading this book with an understanding of the writer and events of the time it was written? A hundred years ago most people thought that people with epilepsy were possessed by the devil. We now know that the person has misfiring in the brain that causes seizures. Keeping this in mind, let us look at this book and try to determine what was being said and why.

This is my take on the book and I invite you to give your opinions and thoughts. The book was written by an expatriate follower of Jesus, some 70 years after Jesus died, who wanted the movement to remain within an entirely Jewish context, as opposed to the “Christianity” just then being invented by Saul. Saul broke away from the teaching of Jesus and welcomed uncircumcised and trayf-eating Gentiles into the sect. At a time when no one quite called themselves “Christian,” in the modern sense, John is prophesying what would happen if people followed this new religion. In retrospect, we can see that John stood on the cusp of an enormous change—one that eventually would transform the entire movement from a Jewish messianic sect into ‘Christianity,’ a new religion flooded with Gentiles. At the time the book was penned, this had not yet happened—not, at least, among the groups John addressed in Asia Minor—he took his stand as a Jewish prophet charged to keep G*d’s people holy, unpolluted by Roman culture. So, John says, Jesus twice warns his followers in Asia Minor to beware of ‘blasphemers’ among them, ‘who say they are Jews, and are not.’ They are, he says, a ‘synagogue of Satan'. Balaam and Jezebel, named as satanic prophets in Revelation are, in this view, caricatures of “Pauline” Christians, who blithely violated Jewish food and sexual laws while still claiming to be followers of the good rabbi Yeshua. Jezebel, in particular, the name that John assigns her, is that of an infamous Canaanite queen, but she’s seen preaching in the nearby town of Thyatira—suggests the women evangelists who were central to Saul’s version of the movement and anathema to a pious Jew like John. She is the original shiksa goddess. (When John accuses ‘Balaam’ and ‘Jezebel’ of inducing people to ‘eat food sacrificed to idols and practice fornication', he might have in mind anything from tolerating people who engage in incest to Jews who become sexually involved with Gentiles or, worse, who marry them.) The scarlet whores and mad beasts in Revelation are the Gentile followers of Saul—and so, in a neat irony, the spiritual ancestors of today’s Protestant evangelicals. You may recall that Saul was the "deacon" or charged by himself "overseer" of the Church of Asia Minor.

So, I invite your opinions and thoughts. Please keep in mind, I intend no disrespect to Christians, I only offer an alternative from a historical prospective.
There is so much copied and pasted information in ... (show quote)


Revelation is singular, not plural.

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 19:00:20   #
Radiance3
 
Oldsailor65 wrote:
Why are Jews hated and discriminated against all through history?

I have a theory that Jews may have paid more attention to educating their children through the years and better educated people become more successful in business and thus in general become more successful and wealthier than other people. When poor people need to borrow money they don’t borrow it from poor people who have nothing to loan, they borrow it from more successful people who do have the money to loan. But many hate paying it back and resent the person (bank) they borrowed the money from in the first place. This is why Jews are always portrayed an wealthy money grubbing SOBs.
Why are Jews hated and discriminated against all t... (show quote)


===================
More than 50% of the richest multi-billionaires at Forbes are the Jews.
# 1 is Zuckerberg. 95% of them are LIBERALS AND DEMOCRATS. Soros is the most controversial among them. It was reported that Soros has been funding the illegal aliens come to the US.

I think they should help the suffering Jews left from the holocaust in Ukraine.
But they ignored them. Does God like that? I wonder, if they are Jews, where did they come from? Are they the descendants of Abraham?

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 19:34:45   #
Richard Rowland
 
eagleye13 wrote:
I am not sure what you are driving at, Penny.
I take it you believe Jesus/Yahshua was not God or God's son in the flesh, or the Messiah.
If Jesus was not the messiah, when will the Messiah ever show up?


Great point, eagle. If it isn't Jesus Christ returning, who is?

Reply
 
 
Jun 13, 2019 20:09:05   #
Radiance3
 
Richard Rowland wrote:
Great point, eagle. If it isn't Jesus Christ returning, who is?


================
The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah. But nobody has come. Because the Messiah has already come. That is Jesus Christ. The Sanhedrin did not accept Him.

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 20:15:27   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
truthiness wrote:
...
I do love Moses because he saved Israel from utter destruction of God himself; Ex 32: 11-14.

Not wanting to wear out my welcome or and at the risk of tiring you from continually having to make your informative long and detailed responses, I would like to venture one more issue that has bothered me for some time: Jeremiah 31:31-37. Israel has always considered itself to be a covenant people based, I think, on the promises to the fathers, especially Abraham, and the events on Sinai.
I will pose different questions, but I think they are pretty much the same.
1) Does rabbinical Jewry accept the book of Jeremiah as prophetic?
2) v 31: Is there any reason for using 'house of Judah' and 'house of Israel' separately--or is he just making sure we know that all of Israel is being included?
3) v32: Indicates that an original covenant was broken. Is israel, particularly the Jews, consider itself to still living under a covenant--the original covenant?
4) v33: Seems to indicate that Israel (but not the Jews?) is not a covenant people--at least at the time of the writing of the text.
5) v34: What sin? Does this refer back to v32?
6) v36: Do you know what the antecedent of 'ordinances" is? Does it refer back to the new covenant of vv33,34?

I have always had trouble understanding the meaning of these verses premised on my assumption that Judah still thinks of itself living under the original covenant.
... br I do love Moses because he saved Israel fro... (show quote)


Excellent questions, and you could never wear out your welcome.

So, let us start by telling you how the Hebrew Bible in broken down. First we have the Torah, or Five Books of Moses. This portion includes both the narrative of the formation of the people of Israel and the laws defining the covenant that binds the people to G*d. This is followed by the The Prophets. This portion is divided into two parts; former prophets — including the books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings — are narratives that explain the history of Israel from the perspective of Israel’s fulfillment of G*d’s covenant. The latter prophets — including Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, along with 12 minor prophets — report the exhortations of these fiery leaders to return to G*d and Torah. And finally there are the The Writings, this part is wisdom, poetry, and short stories; Psalms and Lamentations and wisdom literature (Proverbs and Ecclesiastes), short stories (Esther), and histories (Ezra-Nehemiah and 1-2 Chronicles).

There are different kinds of "contracts" or covenants in the Hebrew Bible and to simplfy them I will use modern terms. Suzerian-Vassal and Royal Grants. The first covenant made between G*d and human was the Noahic and that was a Royal Grant. Noah did not have to do anything for this grant and it was made in perpetuity. I suppose one could view this as an apology promise, G*d promised to never destroy the world again with water. The second was the Abrahamic Covenant, part Suzerian-Vassal and a Royal Grant. It was conditional, G*d said that 1). He will be made into a great nation, 2). This nation will be led into the Promised Land and 3). Through Abraham all people of the earth will be blessed. And Abraham's portion was to Suzerain-Vassal covenant, G*d required first that Abraham get up, leave his home and his family, and follow G*d to the land He would show him. The unconditional portion or Royal Grant, Abraham’s descendants would become a great nation and bless all of the nations through his lineage is an unconditional promise from G*d. No expiration date, in other words for all time just like the promise not to drown us. Moving forward, another contract was entered into and this one is pure Suzerian-Vassal, Mosaic. Again no expiration date, but there was an exchange... the Mosaic Covenant is dependent on the peoples’ response to the law G*d gave through His servant Moses. This covenant builds on Abrahamic, G*d tells Moses that if Israel obeys, they will be His chosen people, His treasured possession. As you know, the contract was broken by Israel, so that leads to the Davidic covenant. A Royal Grant... Here G*d makes a Royal Grant covenant to David and his descendants that his house will rule over Israel forever. Again, no expiration date. Although this is an unconditional covenant, there is a part of it which has a contingency: if the ruler of Israel is obedient, he will be blessed. If not, he will be cursed. As the books of 1 & 2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chronicles show us, Israel had many examples of both disobedient and obedient kings, which eventually lead to the nation’s exile. Note that this is a King's behavior, not the nation of Israel although they suffered greatly when the king misbehaved. And this leads us to the New Covenant. This does not erase the Royal Grants already given, but G*d says He will make it easier. This too is a Royal Grant. G*d promises: 1). He would give them the ability and the desire to follow Him. 2). He would change their hearts and give them a zeal for obedience. 3). He will be their G*d, and they will be His people, and 4). He will forgive the sins of His people. The "sins" are those outlined to Moses.... to include 530 rules that G*d said "write down" most contained in Leviticus.

Of special note.... although the contracts were made with the decedents of Noah, Moses through David as Israelites, keep in mind that the contracts extends to household members and to converts. Most biblical writers take it for granted that “outsiders” or Goy (nations) can be incorporated into Israelite populace (including its worship and common lines of descent) through marriage, bondage, alliance, residency, adoption, and the like. In addition, prophets such as Isaiah and Zechariah envisioned a desirable future in which many peoples come to embrace G*d of Israel, and worship at the temple in Jerusalem. So, these contracts are as binding to a gentile, providing they accept G*d and follow His laws.

To our understanding all the Royal Grants are still valid. As for the Suzerian-Vassals, G*d completed his portion of the contracts and the Israelites kept their end all the way to the Mosaic Covenant and then both kings and people did not always fulfilled their portion. However, there is no scripture where our Father was angered by this to the point of canceling the agreements.

By "antecedent of ordinances" are you referencing χειρογραφων τοις δογμασι (Greek legal term) as defined by Saul/Paul? If so, then please notice that the phrase "handwriting of requirements" restates the phrase immediately before it. "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us" parallels "having forgiven you all trespasses." Thus, Saul/Paul could not be referring to the law itself but rather to the record of our transgression of that law—sin.

Now for Israel and Judea. During the kingship of Solomon and David, Israel was one nation. When Solomon died, the land was split into two independent kingdoms. The southern region came to be called Judah which consisted of the tribes of Benjamin and Judah. Jerusalem was their capital. The northern region was called Israel which comprised the remaining ten tribes with Samaria as the capital.

Sorry this was so long, but although I edited it..... it still is a long read (it was 20 pages before I edited).

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 20:22:54   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
amadjuster wrote:
Revelation is singular, not plural.


Sorry, my error.

Reply
Jun 13, 2019 22:02:30   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
amadjuster wrote:
Saul/Paul identified himself as a Benjamite.


And he also said: "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews." In other words, he did not always tell the truth. 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/9-21.htm

If you go by destinations of Ham, Shem, and Japheth and the birthplace of Saul/Paul, that would put him from the line of Japheth as he was born in what is modern day Turkey. Incidentally, he ministered to Greeks and died in Rome. However, I have not guarantee that he was from Japheth line and I should have added a qualifier to my statement, Saul "most probably descended from Japheth." https://www.bible-history.com/old-testament/desc-shem-ham-japheth.html



Reply
 
 
Jun 14, 2019 01:51:31   #
truthiness
 
Pennylynn wrote:
And he also said: "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews." In other words, he did not always tell the truth. 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/9-21.htm

If you go by destinations of Ham, Shem, and Japheth and the birthplace of Saul/Paul, that would put him from the line of Japheth as he was born in what is modern day Turkey. Incidentally, he ministered to Greeks and died in Rome. However, I have not guarantee that he was from Japheth line and I should have added a qualifier to my statement, Saul "most probably descended from Japheth." https://www.bible-history.com/old-testament/desc-shem-ham-japheth.html
And he also said: "To the Jews I became like ... (show quote)


;;;
Great map--very helpful. Thanks.

Reply
Jun 14, 2019 02:41:13   #
truthiness
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Excellent questions, and you could never wear out your welcome.

So, let us start by telling you how the Hebrew Bible in broken down. First we have the Torah, or Five Books of Moses. This portion includes both the narrative of the formation of the people of Israel and the laws defining the covenant that binds the people to G*d. This is followed by the The Prophets. This portion is divided into two parts; former prophets — including the books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings — are narratives that explain the history of Israel from the perspective of Israel’s fulfillment of G*d’s covenant. The latter prophets — including Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, along with 12 minor prophets — report the exhortations of these fiery leaders to return to G*d and Torah. And finally there are the The Writings, this part is wisdom, poetry, and short stories; Psalms and Lamentations and wisdom literature (Proverbs and Ecclesiastes), short stories (Esther), and histories (Ezra-Nehemiah and 1-2 Chronicles).

There are different kinds of "contracts" or covenants in the Hebrew Bible and to simplfy them I will use modern terms. Suzerian-Vassal and Royal Grants. The first covenant made between G*d and human was the Noahic and that was a Royal Grant. Noah did not have to do anything for this grant and it was made in perpetuity. I suppose one could view this as an apology promise, G*d promised to never destroy the world again with water. The second was the Abrahamic Covenant, part Suzerian-Vassal and a Royal Grant. It was conditional, G*d said that 1). He will be made into a great nation, 2). This nation will be led into the Promised Land and 3). Through Abraham all people of the earth will be blessed. And Abraham's portion was to Suzerain-Vassal covenant, G*d required first that Abraham get up, leave his home and his family, and follow G*d to the land He would show him. The unconditional portion or Royal Grant, Abraham’s descendants would become a great nation and bless all of the nations through his lineage is an unconditional promise from G*d. No expiration date, in other words for all time just like the promise not to drown us. Moving forward, another contract was entered into and this one is pure Suzerian-Vassal, Mosaic. Again no expiration date, but there was an exchange... the Mosaic Covenant is dependent on the peoples’ response to the law G*d gave through His servant Moses. This covenant builds on Abrahamic, G*d tells Moses that if Israel obeys, they will be His chosen people, His treasured possession. As you know, the contract was broken by Israel, so that leads to the Davidic covenant. A Royal Grant... Here G*d makes a Royal Grant covenant to David and his descendants that his house will rule over Israel forever. Again, no expiration date. Although this is an unconditional covenant, there is a part of it which has a contingency: if the ruler of Israel is obedient, he will be blessed. If not, he will be cursed. As the books of 1 & 2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chronicles show us, Israel had many examples of both disobedient and obedient kings, which eventually lead to the nation’s exile. Note that this is a King's behavior, not the nation of Israel although they suffered greatly when the king misbehaved. And this leads us to the New Covenant. This does not erase the Royal Grants already given, but G*d says He will make it easier. This too is a Royal Grant. G*d promises: 1). He would give them the ability and the desire to follow Him. 2). He would change their hearts and give them a zeal for obedience. 3). He will be their G*d, and they will be His people, and 4). He will forgive the sins of His people. The "sins" are those outlined to Moses.... to include 530 rules that G*d said "write down" most contained in Leviticus.

Of special note.... although the contracts were made with the decedents of Noah, Moses through David as Israelites, keep in mind that the contracts extends to household members and to converts. Most biblical writers take it for granted that “outsiders” or Goy (nations) can be incorporated into Israelite populace (including its worship and common lines of descent) through marriage, bondage, alliance, residency, adoption, and the like. In addition, prophets such as Isaiah and Zechariah envisioned a desirable future in which many peoples come to embrace G*d of Israel, and worship at the temple in Jerusalem. So, these contracts are as binding to a gentile, providing they accept G*d and follow His laws.

To our understanding all the Royal Grants are still valid. As for the Suzerian-Vassals, G*d completed his portion of the contracts and the Israelites kept their end all the way to the Mosaic Covenant and then both kings and people did not always fulfilled their portion. However, there is no scripture where our Father was angered by this to the point of canceling the agreements.

By "antecedent of ordinances" are you referencing χειρογραφων τοις δογμασι (Greek legal term) as defined by Saul/Paul? If so, then please notice that the phrase "handwriting of requirements" restates the phrase immediately before it. "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us" parallels "having forgiven you all trespasses." Thus, Saul/Paul could not be referring to the law itself but rather to the record of our transgression of that law—sin.

Now for Israel and Judea. During the kingship of Solomon and David, Israel was one nation. When Solomon died, the land was split into two independent kingdoms. The southern region came to be called Judah which consisted of the tribes of Benjamin and Judah. Jerusalem was their capital. The northern region was called Israel which comprised the remaining ten tribes with Samaria as the capital.

Sorry this was so long, but although I edited it..... it still is a long read (it was 20 pages before I edited).
Excellent questions, and you could never wear out ... (show quote)

...
Long, but not too long to give great insight to these issues.
"One last question," he keeps saying, but...
So, poor Moses is prohibited from going into Canaan. But he leaves with prophetic promises for each of the tribes in Deut 33. Even Reuben, who was not blessed with much by his father, as a tribe is given new life.
Judah is obviously treated well and the language seems to indicate the leadership role that you mentioned above (the Davidic covenant).
I am always surprised at the dual blessing given to Joseph through his sons Ephraim and Manasseh. Joseph saved the family from starvation. But the richness and the double portion to Joseph's sons seems out of proportion to even Judah's blessings.
Maybe we should consider these prophecies of future events rather than blessings per se?
Are these blessings considered end-times events?
Is there a meaning in the Hebrew given to "...push the people together to the ends of the earth." I.e., is the KJV translation on solid ground here, and what does the imagery try to convey?

Reply
Jun 14, 2019 11:20:11   #
Kazudy
 
Radiance3 wrote:
===============
Here we go again.

Kasudy, I am saying this again, in the name of Christ, my Lord and Savior. Catholics don't worship the Virgin Mary as God. Jesus is God, the central focus of our worship. We spend every Sundays and Holidays honoring and worshiping Christ. I invite you to our Mass to prove it. We also have the Nicene Creed.

Mary is the mother of Jesus, and we love and honor her NOT as God, but the mother of Christ. I hope you get that right.
When Jesus on the Cross, then saw His mother, and the disciples whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son! John 19:26

Don't believe on so many gossips because it is a sin. Know the facts. God is the only ONE who knows and judges the right thing. Anybody who judges without knowing the truth is a hypocrite.

I honor and respect yours and others, how you worship Christ. I won't judge them. Catholic is the Church created by Christ thru Peter 2000 years ago. It is about love. That is why I love all those who worship Christ.

Jesus said to His Disciples," love one another as I love you." John 13:34
And He also said, "Love God above all things. And finally, love thy neighbor as thyself."
Mark 12:30-31.

'
God bless and thank you for listening.
=============== br Here we go again. br br Kasudy... (show quote)


Radiance, I’m sorry to ruffle your feathers, BUT in Mexico and Hispanic Catholic Churches is Deep South Texas you hear a lot more about Mary then Jesus. My father born in 1905 told us this about my Grand Parents, his mom and dad. He was Catholic she was Methodist. He told my grandmother”on Sundays you go to your Church and I’ll go to mine”she responded”No, one Sunday I’ll go with you to your Church and the next Sunday you go with me to mine, I’ll tell you what I learned in your Church, then you can tell me what, you learned in mine, ok” he agreed. That first Sunday the Catholic service was not in English or Spanish it was in Latin. My grandmother said that she didn’t understand or learn anything, he responded”but we were there thats what counts” the following Sunday they went to the Methodist Church, the preacher said in Spanish”Please take out your Bibles and go to John 3:16 and began reading”for God so loved...my grandfather asks”they LET you read the Bible here???” He became a Methodist. Radiance check out the early Catholism you’ll find this to be true. Question if the first Pope was Peter and he WAS married, why doesn’t the Church allow the priest to marry?

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Jun 14, 2019 11:21:35   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
truthiness wrote:
...
Long, but not too long to give great insight to these issues.
"One last question," he keeps saying, but...
So, poor Moses is prohibited from going into Canaan. But he leaves with prophetic promises for each of the tribes in Deut 33. Even Reuben, who was not blessed with much by his father, as a tribe is given new life.
Judah is obviously treated well and the language seems to indicate the leadership role that you mentioned above (the Davidic covenant).
I am always surprised at the dual blessing given to Joseph through his sons Ephraim and Manasseh. Joseph saved the family from starvation. But the richness and the double portion to Joseph's sons seems out of proportion to even Judah's blessings.
Maybe we should consider these prophecies of future events rather than blessings per se?
Are these blessings considered end-times events?
Is there a meaning in the Hebrew given to "...push the people together to the ends of the earth." I.e., is the KJV translation on solid ground here, and what does the imagery try to convey?
... br Long, but not too long to give great insigh... (show quote)


I am not sure I understand your question. Are you asking why Moses could not enter the Promised Land? Simply, there were times when he put himself equal to G*d. I also think there was a second reason, he was by now very old and his health was failing. Imagine the stress of 40 years of being the hammer... G*d made the laws and Moses was the enforcer, the 3 million people seemed to have spent every waking moment thinking of things to complain about or ways to break G*d's laws and not get caught. If you read the bible you can not help but notice that he was tired of doing a thankless job and he probably was relieved at the end, although saddened that he would not see the promised land.

When you read Deuteronomy 33, you have to know that Moses did not author it or even dictate it to a scribe... Moses is referred to in the 3d person. There are issues in translations of this Chapter, many odd words appear and many misspellings. To me it is as if one editor took all the verbal stories and what was written, copied everything down and kept what the editor liked and tossed the rest aside without much regard to syntax errors. Regardless, we can make sense of it.... and it is important to understand why the blessings were given in the way they were. So... shall we dig in?

It would be helpful to you to have an old map of the region... for the sequence of the blessings do not follow tradition... first born and so on. So, you can use the map I provided or download one for your use. Beginning with Reuben the next tribe mentioned is Judah, where the Israelites would first cross into the Promised Land. Then after Levi, the order of tribal blessings follow a path that heads northward through Benjamin, and then into the contiguous regions of Ephraim and Manasseh (the Joseph tribes), next Zebulun and its neighbor to the east, Issachar. Continuing east we watch the blessing order in Deuteronomy 33 cross back over the Jordan (into the Transjordan region) and into the territory of Gad, then north to Dan, south from Dan to Naphtali, and finally westward to Asher. Levi, which was given no territory, is dealt with in between the blessings given to Judah and Benjamin, undoubtedly because this was the area where Jerusalem would one day exist and where the priests of Levi would serve at the great Temple.

You ask about Rueben, he and Gad along with approximately ½ of the clans formed tribe of Manasseh and settled on the east side of the Jordan River (the so-called Trans-Jordan). Their placement is logical, Ruben was Jacob’s firstborn son. Although earlier Jacob removed the firstborn rights of inheritance traditionally due to Reuben because he had sexual relations with Jacob’s concubine Bilah. So the firstborn inheritance was split into two part, and one part of it went to Judah and the other part to Joseph (technically it went to Joseph’s son Ephraim). Judah was given the right to rule over Israel while Ephraim was given the double-portion part of the firstborn blessing, meaning wealth and abounding fruitfulness ABOVE all of his other brothers.

The blessing is in the form of a plea to the Lord that the tribe of Reuben would “live and not die." He was not asking that Ruben become immortal, he was asking for G*d to watch over the tribe and not allow it to become extinct through absorption of it by another tribe of Israel OR by Reuben being conquered and assimilated by a foreign culture. And it would seem that G*d heard this request, for we see it survived as a separate tribe well into the time of the Judges and it is also mentioned in the earliest era of the Kings.

The next tribe is the Levites, G*d set them apart early on as Priest and the blessing is focused around their role in society as teachers of G*d’s Law and officiators of the all-important rituals. Specifically the use of the Urim and the Thummim. Moses prays that these stones would remain in the hands of the Levites (“faithful ones”), and that G*d would continue to reflect his will through the use of those two stones. After the subject of the Urim and Thummim, Moses refers to the Levites as those who were tested at Massah and Meribah. This is important, all Israel went through this ordeal but it was a test. Would the Levites who were being measured by the Lord, qualify or be the right choice to be His personal Priests.

Benjamin would occupy a small territory as a sort of buffer region between the two most powerful tribes: Ephraim and Judah. It is in this territory that the Temple would be built. Then we have the Joseph Tribes and the placement is important, for in my opinion (being a farmer myself) got the best placement.... the blessing from the deep (artisan wells), abundance of rain and sun, fertile lands that could produce almost year round, the hills with wood and metals.... a perfect area for an agrarian society to prosper. Although others seemed to be more blessed with their inheritance.... Joseph got the cherry on top!

At this point I think it prudent to bring up one of the issues I mentioned earlier, and oddity one would think. Verse 17, says that he is like a firstling bull in majesty and that he has horns like a Wild Ox. A firstling Bull is one of the highest sacrifices that can be offered at the Tabernacle, 2nd only to the mature 3-year old bull and it denotes great strength. A Wild Ox goring its enemies is symbolic of a strong warrior that is mighty in battle. Ephraim eventually dominated the northern regions of Israel with 9 other northern tribes (including his brother tribe Manesseh) coming under its dominance. They eventually extended their reach to the ends of the earth but it came in an ironic way; they were conquered by the Assyrians and forcibly scattered throughout the vast Asian continent. They became the "lost" as they interbred with gentiles and lost their Hebrew identity.... this was prophesied by Hosea and Isaiah, and in the Book of Hosea G*d said that those 10 tribes would become a lo-ammi, a non-people. But, it did not say that they would remain lost...
`
As for the rest of the blessings.... there is only two worth much attention. Gad was one of the 3 tribes that, all or in part, decided to accept territory OUTSIDE of the Promised Land as their portion. And then there is Simeon. Simeon was cursed along with Levi because together the two conspired to attack the helpless residents of Shechem in ages past, for family revenge. History proves that Simeon wound up as a very small, non-influential tribe and found itself completely surrounded by Judah’s territory so it was pretty well doomed from the get-go. Not terribly long after the tribes of Israel settled in Canaan the tribe of Simeon was absorbed by Judah and they vanished as a separate territory and generally speaking as a separate self-governing tribe. Interesting....this reduced the 12 tribes to only 11.

Does this help.... or confuse?

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