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May 24, 2019 13:23:11   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
dtucker300 wrote:
That is the beauty of English because it is a rich literary language and there is a word for almost everything that can be thought or expressed. On the other hand, I wonder; if I knew Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, etc., would I feel the same way?

(Between you and me, and not to offend anyone, Muslims say the only way to understand the Koran is in Arabic. I believe there is some truth to that.)

Just understanding Arabic is only part of the deal ... you also have to understand the cultural norms that surround it and the nomadic tradition on which it is based.

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May 24, 2019 13:25:29   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I was wondering the same thing as I texted my last response...
I know my Arab friends claim that the Koran is far more beautiful in Arabic... And many of the Buddhist teachings are better expressed in Chinese...

I wonder how much is truly lost in translation?


A lot. The disparity between similar Buddhist sutras is immense. It depended on which ruler was sponsoring the faith at what point as to how the texts were slanted to make them happy.

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May 24, 2019 18:45:31   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Just understanding Arabic is only part of the deal ... you also have to understand the cultural norms that surround it and the nomadic tradition on which it is based.


Very true...

Many of my non-Arab friends get into arguments with the Arabs over what constitutes religion and what is simply culture...

Faith is one thing... Culture quite another...

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May 24, 2019 18:52:44   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
whitnebrat wrote:
A lot. The disparity between similar Buddhist sutras is immense. It depended on which ruler was sponsoring the faith at what point as to how the texts were slanted to make them happy.


Agreed...

I was referencing the fact that a single word (character) in Chinese can have multiple, interconnected meanings, or simply express a thought that we don't define in English...

Example: 孝 (xiao) is the word used for filial piety... The concept of which is heavily based on Confucian thought... When translated to English it becomes simply "filial piety"...Yet in Chinese it carries the weight of thousands of years of tradition and thought that can greatly alter the understanding depending on the context it is being used in...

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May 24, 2019 19:18:37   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Thanks, dtucker, for your sentiment,

I didn't see your comment last night.

No tornadoes materialized here last night, but they created considerable damage in Missouri, and at least three deaths there.

Missouri is due west of southern Indiana, across the state of Illinois.

Missouri's weather sometimes arrives here within a few hours (precipitation, ice storms, snow, thunderstorms, and yes, occasional tornadoes), depending on the speed it is traveling, although usually not until the following day.


dtucker300 wrote:
Are you having tornados? Hope you are safe,

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May 24, 2019 19:20:47   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Agreed...

I was referencing the fact that a single word (character) in Chinese can have multiple, interconnected meanings, or simply express a thought that we don't define in English...

Example: 孝 (xiao) is the word used for filial piety... The concept of which is heavily based on Confucian thought... When translated to English it becomes simply "filial piety"...Yet in Chinese it carries the weight of thousands of years of tradition and thought that can greatly alter the understanding depending on the context it is being used in...
Agreed... br br I was referencing the fact that ... (show quote)


I remember looking at a book about 20 years ago or more called, "They Have a Word for It". The book had many words from many different languages that did not easily translate into English. It would often take an entire page to explain a world. One that most speakers of English are familiar with is "weltanschauung" which is German. The simplest translation is that it represents a persons comprehensive conceptual and philosophical viewpoint or image of mankind's relation to the cosmos and the world. i.e., world-view.

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May 24, 2019 19:24:52   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
dtucker300 wrote:
I remember looking at a book about 20 years ago or more called, "They Have a Word for It". The book had many words from many different languages that did not easily translate into English. It would often take an entire page to explain a world. One that most speakers of English are familiar with is "weltanschauung" which is German. The simplest translation is that it represents a persons comprehensive conceptual and philosophical viewpoint of mankind's relation to the cosmo and the world.
I remember looking at a book about 20 years ago or... (show quote)


English has words/concepts that are difficult
to translate as well... Just a few weeks back a student asked me what "bromance" meant... The concept does not exist in Chinese culture... Though Indians have no trouble understanding it...

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May 24, 2019 19:26:10   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Zemirah wrote:
Thanks, dtucker, for your sentiment,

I didn't see your comment last night.

No tornadoes materialized here last night, but they created considerable damage in Missouri, and at least three deaths there.

Missouri is due west of southern Indiana, across the state of Illinois.

Missouri's weather sometimes arrives here within a few hours (precipitation, ice storms, snow, thunderstorms, and yes, occasional tornadoes), depending on the speed it is traveling, although usually not until the following day.
Thanks, dtucker, for your sentiment, br br I didn... (show quote)


I'm glad, as I think we are getting into the peak of tornado season? Be safe! I can put up with earthquakes, but I do not like hurricanes, tornados, and fires.

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May 24, 2019 19:29:38   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
English has words/concepts that are difficult
to translate as well... Just a few weeks back a student asked me what "bromance" meant... The concept does not exist in Chinese culture... Though Indians have no trouble understanding it...


There are so many new words and I can't keep up with them. It took me a while before I understood "woke." And don't get me started on acronyms and abbreviations. Speaking of which, why is "Abbreviation" such a long word?

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May 24, 2019 19:35:39   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
dtucker300 wrote:
There are so many new words and I can't keep up with them. It took me a while before I understood "woke." And don't get me started on acronyms and abbreviations. Speaking of which, why is "Abbreviation" such a long word?


"Woke" still annoys me... I'm never sure if I am or not...

I do find all of the acronyms used on the forum annoying... When I joined I only knew LOL... And it turns out that it doesn't mean "Lots of love"

Abbreviation is a great word... It's "lisp" that is cruel

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May 24, 2019 20:06:22   #
rumitoid
 
dtucker300 wrote:
I remember looking at a book about 20 years ago or more called, "They Have a Word for It". The book had many words from many different languages that did not easily translate into English. It would often take an entire page to explain a world. One that most speakers of English are familiar with is "weltanschauung" which is German. The simplest translation is that it represents a persons comprehensive conceptual and philosophical viewpoint or image of mankind's relation to the cosmos and the world. i.e., world-view.
I remember looking at a book about 20 years ago or... (show quote)


Try Sanskrit. Some words are also just for their sounds and what that invokes or manifests, such as Om and Shakti. They are defined yet like gestalt, go beyond the literal, being greater than their verbal assignment. Om is a vibration and Shakti a cosmic energy. No words can possibly capture their meaning.

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May 24, 2019 20:21:00   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
rumitoid wrote:
Try Sanskrit. Some words are also just for their sounds and what that invokes or manifests, such as Om and Shakti. They are defined yet like gestalt, go beyond the literal, being greater than their verbal assignment. Om is a vibration and Shakti a cosmic energy. No words can possibly capture their meaning.
Some words derived from Sanskrit

Shampoo
Pajama
Avatar
Bandana
Cheetah
Cot
Deva
Dinghy
Ginger
Jackal
Jungle
Orange
Panther
Pundit
Sandal
Sugar
Swastika
Thug

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May 24, 2019 22:53:53   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
"Woke" still annoys me... I'm never sure if I am or not...

I do find all of the acronyms used on the forum annoying... When I joined I only knew LOL... And it turns out that it doesn't mean "Lots of love"

Abbreviation is a great word... It's "lisp" that is cruel
"Woke" still annoys me... I'm never sure... (show quote)


Yes it is cruel
LOL=Laughing out loud? Lov'em or leav'em?

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May 24, 2019 22:59:25   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Some words derived from Sanskrit

Shampoo
Pajama
Avatar
Bandana
Cheetah
Cot
Deva
Dinghy
Ginger
Jackal
Jungle
Orange
Panther
Pundit
Sandal
Sugar
Swastika
Thug


Weird. Now, where did I learn about Swastika? Anthropology? I can't remember. I didn't know Orange.

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May 26, 2019 15:44:25   #
TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA
 
Zemirah wrote:
Tom Raddatz, This entire elaborate, multi-worded hoax you are trying to foist upon others is based upon your blind acceptance of the English wording, as if it were the language of the original text, which it was not, having not even been in existence at the time the Bible was written down.


...So says the person who rejects Jesus’ qualifications of the very first commandment in order to negate its original, Jewish meaning and understanding in order to impose what was originally an antichristian view.

As I’ve quoted for you many times:

Jesus said.... “You worship what you do not know; We know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).

“This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” John 17:3

“I am ascending to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God” John 20:17

“yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.” 1 Cor. 8:6

I am merely reiterating what Jesus said and the Bible actually states and explains throughout. You, on the other hand, are putting your own private interpretations, and those whom agree like you, over Jesus and more authoritative than Jesus’ own qualifications of the first commandment.

Furthermore, many times in this thread I have pointed to the parsing of the original languages as study aids. For example:


quote: “..."Which commandment is the greatest of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one: 30you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment... 32The scribe said to him, "Truly, teacher, you have said well that he [first person singular present indicative] is one {“a cardinal numeral, one. Used: 1. universally, a. in opposed to many” –Thayer’s Greek Lexicon}, and there is none other but he {Genitive Masculine 3rd Person Singular}, 33and to love him {Accusative Masculine 3rd Person Singular} with all the heart, and with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more important than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God." No one dared ask him any question after that.” Mark 12:28-34” TommyRadd May 19, 2019 19:37:43





Quote= “You heard how I told you, 'I go away, and I come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said 'I am going to my Father;' for the Father is greater than I {“Strong's Greek 1473: I, the first-person pronoun. A primary pronoun of the first person I.”}.” John 14:28 TommyRadd May 21, 2019 04:40:34



quote= “In passages like this in Deut, we see that God was spoken of in terms of personality. In that it uses undeniable third person masculine singular pronouns when clearly and obviously speaking of God.” TommyRadd May 13, 2019 09:36:49


Once again, you have resorted to false accusations in order to defend your extrabiblical and contrabiblical doctrine.


Zemirah wrote:
You have been shown repeatedly that the nouns which refer to God in the original Hebrew are plural, accompanied by a verb of singularity.



It is written again:

Jesus said.... “You worship what you do not know; We know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).

“This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” John 17:3

“I am ascending to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God” John 20:17

“yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.” 1 Cor. 8:6

While you hang on the words of your Trinitarian scholars in your echo chamber, I listen to the words of Jesus who explains what the first commandment means by hearing what he said about what he and the Jews understood.

No Jew ever, at or before Jesus’ time, believed that the nouns which imply plurality were meant to be understood as a Trinity of persons in one essence. Your bottom-line contention is the false notion that scholars who believe as you do understand the first commandment better than Jesus and the Jews who received that commandment from God.

It is written again:

“For we are not bold to number or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves. But they themselves, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves with themselves, are without understanding.” 2 Corinthians 10:12



Zemirah wrote:
You, Tom Raddatz, are being intentionally deceitful, as you attempt to destroy the meaning of God's Word. You deny the power that God, the Holy Spirit has exercised for the two thousand years of Christianity, as He has been the indwelling teacher, counselor, comforter and guide of every Christian.


Another false and groundless accusation void of anything but the private interpretations of you and theologians who believe like you. It is also projecting exactly what you are doing. If it is okay for you to claim, without providing any concrete evidence whatsoever than that I don’t believe like you do, then it is also okay for me to claim and provide evidence both biblically and historically for where you Trinitarians got off the train of salvation.

I have already laid out the origins of the Trinity being in antichristian gnosticism and adopted by Platonistic philosophers in the third and fourth century.

You cannot quote one place where God, Jesus, the apostles or the prophets preached or taught that “God is three persons in one essence.”

Therefore, since you are cornered like a trapped animal, all you have in defense is to strike out with your ad hominem attacks.

How is that showing love, wisdom and compassion?


Zemirah wrote:
In your many words, you have shown no wisdom, no love, no compassion for a suffering world or a spiritually lost mankind.


Teaching people, as you and all Trinitarians do, to negate the first commandment, just like the serpent did in the garden when he taught people to negate the one commandment, is what is unloving, shows no wisdom, is full of your own words, thereby lacking compassion for a suffering world.


Now let’s move on to your one and only scripture that you can quote that you think (falsely) condemns me, and we will see the reverse is true.

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