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A prescient allegory written for today's OPP thousands of years ago
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May 20, 2019 11:52:04   #
redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX
 
debeda wrote:
There is definitely a lot of false reality going around. Certainly the preponderance is NOT on the right. I wonder why you would post such a thing and make it try to fit into politics. There was a young native American man who joined the service during Vietnam. He was captured and tortured, then rescued after 18 long months. He went back to his home, but couldnt fit in. He began to drink, do drugs, abuse his friends and girlfriend. People pitied him for what he had gone through, but began to avoid him. One morning the tribal shaman went to visit the young man. The young man was hung over and NOT in the mood for company. The shaman went in, pulled the curtains wide, and wouldn't go away. "What do you want from me?" The young man said. "I want you to come home" said the shaman. "What are you talking about, old man, I have been here for 3 years!" Shouted the young man. The shaman said, "Really? I have not seen you since before you went to war." The young man thought he knew where the shaman was going. He said, "You dont know what they did to me!! I was a helpless prisoner!" The shaman said, "Do you hate them? Do you think of that time?" The young man said, "Yes, I hate them! I think of that time every moment!" The shaman said, "Then you are still a prisoner."

Never be a prisoner to your hate and fear. It will destroy you.
There is definitely a lot of false reality going a... (show quote)


Well said but needs to go further. Include with hate and fear, ignorance, arrogance, laziness, petulance, meanness, greed, addiction, ...... the list is extensive. We can all succumb to any of these "vices" on occasion. The art of life is to be able to step back and see that we have become a prisoner to one of these and choose to escape. HARD to do at times. Especially with Hate. It is so much easier to just hate someone than to deal with the emotion in a constructive way.

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May 20, 2019 11:54:22   #
redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX
 
Abel wrote:
Maybe it would be a good thing, and even helpful, if Progressives learned how to discuss rather than just parrot their "leaders."


Yes, it would be refreshing.

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May 20, 2019 12:07:22   #
Ricktloml
 
redpill wrote:
Yes, it would be refreshing.


Unfortunately progressives, (the left,) have been in charge of our educational system for over 50 years. They have taught our young people what to think, instead of how to think. Students who do not have parents to undo the leftist damage done in the classroom will have no critical thinking skills and will become what the left wants...mind numbed followers who will not question their serfdom

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May 20, 2019 13:12:24   #
debeda
 
redpill wrote:
Bingo. There is plenty to modify, but hardly anything that has to be destroyed out right.



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May 20, 2019 13:13:34   #
debeda
 
redpill wrote:
Well said but needs to go further. Include with hate and fear, ignorance, arrogance, laziness, petulance, meanness, greed, addiction, ...... the list is extensive. We can all succumb to any of these "vices" on occasion. The art of life is to be able to step back and see that we have become a prisoner to one of these and choose to escape. HARD to do at times. Especially with Hate. It is so much easier to just hate someone than to deal with the emotion in a constructive way.



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May 20, 2019 15:46:06   #
redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX
 
Ricktloml wrote:
Unfortunately progressives, (the left,) have been in charge of our educational system for over 50 years. They have taught our young people what to think, instead of how to think. Students who do not have parents to undo the leftist damage done in the classroom will have no critical thinking skills and will become what the left wants...mind numbed followers who will not question their serfdom


Especially the elite universities and doubly the liberal arts departments. But even in those universities the science departments have to toe the line to keep their funding, for example, follow the claptrap hoax that causes climate change extremists to emerge. At the public school level, there seems to be some teachers who are not fully engaged into indoctrination. Many try hard to make a difference in a child's mind to actually think. But indoctrination is there. Example, the 14 yo great grandson will be graduated no matter what his abilities are. He is being pushed to flip burgers. The job of educating him is left to me, but he resists so much because it doesn't give him a good grade to know how to spell, etc. Not worth his time.... sad situation.

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May 22, 2019 01:19:42   #
rumitoid
 
JW wrote:
How do you know that you are not seeing the shadows? You seem pretty tightly bound to your perspective.


The sun rises in the East (sort of). I am tightly bound to that perspective.

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May 22, 2019 01:23:55   #
rumitoid
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Shameful, rumi, that you would allude to Plato's allegory to post an obviously prejudicial political argument. In case you didn't know this, there is a real world outside the bubble of politics. This real world is not driven by any political or ideological agenda. There is an unbridgeable gap between those who politicize EVERYTHING and those who don't.

Those who perceive the world only through the senses are pitiable creatures to say the least. These are the ones who do not think for themselves, they merely look at the world and its marvelous manifestations rather than seeing through things. There is an abundance of these types in this world. Atheists most likely top the list. Empirical evidence is all they have to inform them. Such a shame.

In Plato’s theory, the cave represents people who believe that knowledge comes from what we see and hear in the world – empirical evidence. The cave shows that believers of empirical knowledge are trapped in a ‘cave’ of misunderstanding.

The Shadows

The Shadows represent the perceptions of those who believe empirical evidence ensures knowledge. If you believe that what you see should be taken as truth, then you are merely seeing a shadow of the truth. In Plato’s opinion you are a ‘pleb’ if you believe this (their insult for those who are not Philosophers)!

The Game

The Game represents how people believe that one person can be a ‘master’ when they have knowledge of the empirical world. Plato is demonstrating that this master does not actually know any truth, and suggesting that it is ridiculous to admire someone like this.

The Escape

The escaped prisoner represents the Philosopher, who seeks knowledge outside of the cave and outside of the senses.
The Sun represents philosophical truth and knowledge
His intellectual journey represents a philosophers journey when finding truth and wisdom

The Return

The other prisoners reaction to the escapee returning represents that people are scared of knowing philosophical truths and do not trust philosophers.
Shameful, rumi, that you would allude to Plato's a... (show quote)


My point was not favoring any system or party but simply getting the eyes to see, as Jesus said.

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May 22, 2019 01:28:24   #
rumitoid
 
debeda wrote:
There is definitely a lot of false reality going around. Certainly the preponderance is NOT on the right. I wonder why you would post such a thing and make it try to fit into politics. There was a young native American man who joined the service during Vietnam. He was captured and tortured, then rescued after 18 long months. He went back to his home, but couldnt fit in. He began to drink, do drugs, abuse his friends and girlfriend. People pitied him for what he had gone through, but began to avoid him. One morning the tribal shaman went to visit the young man. The young man was hung over and NOT in the mood for company. The shaman went in, pulled the curtains wide, and wouldn't go away. "What do you want from me?" The young man said. "I want you to come home" said the shaman. "What are you talking about, old man, I have been here for 3 years!" Shouted the young man. The shaman said, "Really? I have not seen you since before you went to war." The young man thought he knew where the shaman was going. He said, "You dont know what they did to me!! I was a helpless prisoner!" The shaman said, "Do you hate them? Do you think of that time?" The young man said, "Yes, I hate them! I think of that time every moment!" The shaman said, "Then you are still a prisoner."

Never be a prisoner to your hate and fear. It will destroy you.
There is definitely a lot of false reality going a... (show quote)


Again, it was meant for all sides to see where their delusions, opinions, beliefs, fears, and interests constrict their thinking. They cannot see passed the Shadows on the Wall. But firmly believe they do! No self-reflection or self-examination.

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May 22, 2019 01:29:31   #
JW
 
rumitoid wrote:
The sun rises in the East (sort of). I am tightly bound to that perspective.


Of course, the sun doesn't rise at all. It merely comes into view. Recognizing the difference in those two ways of stating the same thing opens very different lines of consideration. Being tightly bound to any perspective is not a good thing.

Some wise person once said we should have strong opinions loosely held.

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May 22, 2019 01:38:17   #
rumitoid
 
debeda wrote:
In my opinion conservatives CONSERVE what is good, be that assets, more, morals, etc. The current iteration of liberals and progressives want to throw the baby out with the bath water (figuratively and, sadly, literally) and conserve nothing. They dont want to build upon a solid foundation but constantly reinvent the wheel, all the while shrieking like Chicken Little
In my opinion conservatives CONSERVE what is good,... (show quote)


deb, if you read what it means to be conservative or liberal, both offer vitally needed components and have their weaknesses as well. To be one or the other in my eyes is to be a buffoon. I do not get the labeling. It is like saying, "Hi, I have a limited perspective and I am often a one-side thinking person."

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May 22, 2019 01:41:09   #
rumitoid
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
Rumi, you and I have agreed on some things and disagreed on others. May I please share with you what I see coming from the liberal left, aka, the Democrat party? The following items seem to be their platform:
Unbridled sex legalized for any and everyone, despite age or perversion, mounting taxes and spending, often for nonsense, demonization of Christians and the Judeo-Christian ethics on nearly every issue, killing of babies, born and unborn, elevation of the environment and government to deity status, open borders with nearly unlimited immigration, confusion of genders, passage of legalizing pot and other drugs, stifling of free speech for conservatives (but not liberals). You can say this is untrue, but there are news reports and videos to substantiate what we see (some clips posted above), not mere shadows on a wall. This what the Democrat party is presenting to the American public and most of us don't like it.
Rumi, you and I have agreed on some things and dis... (show quote)


No. Sounds good. Great 2020 platform.

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May 22, 2019 08:59:45   #
debeda
 
rumitoid wrote:
Again, it was meant for all sides to see where their delusions, opinions, beliefs, fears, and interests constrict their thinking. They cannot see passed the Shadows on the Wall. But firmly believe they do! No self-reflection or self-examination.


Interesting. In your post you specifically said "The right on OPP". No mention of others. So, I love you, Rumi, but I'm calling b.s.

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May 22, 2019 09:05:33   #
debeda
 
rumitoid wrote:
deb, if you read what it means to be conservative or liberal, both offer vitally needed components and have their weaknesses as well. To be one or the other in my eyes is to be a buffoon. I do not get the labeling. It is like saying, "Hi, I have a limited perspective and I am often a one-side thinking person."


Never said we dont. However, as I stated in my post, the current iteration of liberal leadership are lunatics that keep trying to push things on ALL people that are whacked and hearily not wanted. Even many liberals and most moderates are seeing that.

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May 22, 2019 10:42:56   #
Ricktloml
 
debeda wrote:
Interesting. In your post you specifically said "The right on OPP". No mention of others. So, I love you, Rumi, but I'm calling b.s.


It was a political post and it was meant as an insult to conservatives. To imply something differently is disingenuous at the very least. And arrogant to say it was only to open eyes. Conservatives certainly don't need a leftist to twist philosophy or scripture to have THEIR eyes opened. So far there doesn't seem to be ANYTHING that will open a leftist's eyes.

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