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Only an fool would choose to live in a democracy...
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Mar 23, 2019 01:09:26   #
JW
 
Not only are historical democracies the most unstable forms of government, they invariably and without a single exception, devolve into dictatorships.

The Founders rejected the idea of a democracy because they were aware of the history of that benighted form of government. A republic tempers the power of the majority and lends stability to the sociopolitical millieu.

<<At the close of the Constitutional Convention on September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”>>https://utahlinks.org/learn/docs/Bradley_Republic.pdf

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Mar 23, 2019 01:14:54   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
What examples of 'historical democracies' are we looking at for comparison?

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Mar 23, 2019 01:16:15   #
JW
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
What examples of 'historical democracies' are we looking at for comparison?


Take your pick. They ALL ended up the same. Start in ancient Greece and work your way to the Soviet Union or North Korea or any other so-called democratic republic. Communism is the ultimate model democracy.

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Mar 23, 2019 01:29:40   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
JW wrote:
Take your pick. They ALL ended up the same. Start in ancient Greece and work your way to the Soviet Union or North Korea or any other so-called democratic republic. Communism is the ultimate model democracy.


Neither the soviets Nor the North koreans practice/d full democracy...

Neither did the Greeks...

I am actually having trouble coming up with a single example of a society that practices full democracy....

Perhaps it would help if we defined what a complete democracy is...


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Mar 23, 2019 01:46:06   #
currahee506
 
A "complete democracy" is in no historical record that I can find. My understanding of the way in which the word has been bandied about in the Twentieth Century by the teachers in the public schools is to replace the word "republic" in the mind of the student. When the phrase "make the world safe for democracy" is uttered, the automatic thought is that only the Democratic Party can do this because of they are the only ones sympathetic to the "lower classes of people" unlike the "rich middle-class Republicans. Yet our Pledge of Allegiance "Is to the flag and to the Republic." The "education regulators" are responsible for these revisionist tricks.

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Mar 23, 2019 01:59:03   #
JW
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Neither the soviets Nor the North koreans practice/d full democracy...

Neither did the Greeks...

I am actually having trouble coming up with a single example of a society that practices full democracy....

Perhaps it would help if we defined what a complete democracy is...



Athens dabbled in democracy for a short time as did many other Greek city states.. https://www.bing.com/search?q=athens+democracy&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=bb1aa399a79f4435c377da392cd8c600&PC=ASTS&sp=-1&pq=athens+democracy&sc=8-16&qs=n&sk=&cvid=bb1aa399a79f4435c377da392cd8c600

Both, the USSR and NK claim/ed to be democracies. All that is required to qualify as a democracy is to claim the power of government is directly in the hands of the people. A democracy is a majority rule establishment but you have to look quickly because they never last long.

Benjamin Franklin > Quotes > Quotable Quote

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

― Benjamin Franklin

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Mar 23, 2019 02:21:00   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
JW wrote:
Athens dabbled in democracy for a short time as did many other Greek city states.. https://www.bing.com/search?q=athens+democracy&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=bb1aa399a79f4435c377da392cd8c600&PC=ASTS&sp=-1&pq=athens+democracy&sc=8-16&qs=n&sk=&cvid=bb1aa399a79f4435c377da392cd8c600

Both, the USSR and NK claim/ed to be democracies. All that is required to qualify as a democracy is to claim the power of government is directly in the hands of the people. A democracy is a majority rule establishment but you have to look quickly because they never last long.

Benjamin Franklin > Quotes > Quotable Quote

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

― Benjamin Franklin
Athens dabbled in democracy for a short time as di... (show quote)


Athens claimed to be.... Yet granted the right to vote only to male property owners....

The Soviet Union made the same claim... But allowed only limited voting and no opposition to the dominant party...

North Korea is not worth mentioning...

America, in that it gives a vote to all adult members of society and allows for multiple parties and even individual candidates to run for office is closer to a complete democracy than any of the above mentioned nations...

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Mar 23, 2019 02:21:42   #
PeterS
 
JW wrote:
Not only are historical democracies the most unstable forms of government, they invariably and without a single exception, devolve into dictatorships.

The Founders rejected the idea of a democracy because they were aware of the history of that benighted form of government. A republic tempers the power of the majority and lends stability to the sociopolitical millieu.

<<At the close of the Constitutional Convention on September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”>>https://utahlinks.org/learn/docs/Bradley_Republic.pdf
Not only are historical democracies the most unsta... (show quote)

A Republic is a form of Democracy. If you don't believe me then don't vote in the next election and prove to the world your distaste for Democracies. BTW, it was developed by the Greeks and one of the oldest forms of government we have going...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_republic

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Mar 23, 2019 05:45:29   #
rebob14
 
currahee506 wrote:
A "complete democracy" is in no historical record that I can find. My understanding of the way in which the word has been bandied about in the Twentieth Century by the teachers in the public schools is to replace the word "republic" in the mind of the student. When the phrase "make the world safe for democracy" is uttered, the automatic thought is that only the Democratic Party can do this because of they are the only ones sympathetic to the "lower classes of people" unlike the "rich middle-class Republicans. Yet our Pledge of Allegiance "Is to the flag and to the Republic." The "education regulators" are responsible for these revisionist tricks.
A "complete democracy" is in no historic... (show quote)


Absolutely correct. The re-education centers also like the one nation theme.

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Mar 23, 2019 05:46:14   #
rebob14
 
JW wrote:
Athens dabbled in democracy for a short time as did many other Greek city states.. https://www.bing.com/search?q=athens+democracy&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=bb1aa399a79f4435c377da392cd8c600&PC=ASTS&sp=-1&pq=athens+democracy&sc=8-16&qs=n&sk=&cvid=bb1aa399a79f4435c377da392cd8c600

Both, the USSR and NK claim/ed to be democracies. All that is required to qualify as a democracy is to claim the power of government is directly in the hands of the people. A democracy is a majority rule establishment but you have to look quickly because they never last long.

Benjamin Franklin > Quotes > Quotable Quote

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

― Benjamin Franklin
Athens dabbled in democracy for a short time as di... (show quote)


Right on!

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Mar 23, 2019 08:06:52   #
Morgan
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Neither the soviets Nor the North koreans practice/d full democracy...

Neither did the Greeks...

I am actually having trouble coming up with a single example of a society that practices full democracy....

Perhaps it would help if we defined what a complete democracy is...



Not sure what you mean by a complete Democracy but a Democracy is a government governed by the people, hence 'We the People" it's sovereignty (through voting) is in the people. Where it gets tricky for many is that there are two forms of Democracy, direct and indirect, which is through representation. This is also achieved in the same way as what is called a Republic.

What is a republican form of government generally understood to mean?
The Constitution requires the National Government to guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican form of government. The Constitution does not define a Republican form of government and the supreme court has refused to do so but it is generally understood to mean a representative government.

I'm glad you joined in on this conversation, your unbiased and critical thinking will be an asset here.

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Mar 23, 2019 09:21:57   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Morgan wrote:
Not sure what you mean by a complete Democracy but a Democracy is a government governed by the people, hence 'We the People" it's sovereignty (through voting) is in the people. Where it gets tricky for many is that there are two forms of Democracy, direct and indirect, which is through representation. This is also achieved in the same way as what is called a Republic.

What is a republican form of government generally understood to mean?
The Constitution requires the National Government to guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican form of government. The Constitution does not define a Republican form of government and the supreme court has refused to do so but it is generally understood to mean a representative government.

I'm glad you joined in on this conversation, your unbiased and critical thinking will be an asset here.
Not sure what you mean by a complete Democracy but... (show quote)


It is a difficult term to debate as so many of us are working with different understandings of what is meant by 'democracy'...

While I agree that ancient Greece, the Soviet Union, and North Korea all employ/ed forms of democracy, none of them are examples of placing power conpletely within the hands of the people (or even close to tgat if we want to be honest)...

Republics are forms of government that employ democratic procedures... And from what I can make out the US does that...

Perhaps it would be helpful if we could all work from the same definition of democracy...

Edit: I am as biased as the next man... But I do try to employ critical thinking... Not the easiest of goals at times

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Mar 23, 2019 09:44:07   #
badbob85037
 
PeterS wrote:
A Republic is a form of Democracy. If you don't believe me then don't vote in the next election and prove to the world your distaste for Democracies. BTW, it was developed by the Greeks and one of the oldest forms of government we have going...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_republic


A republic no man or group of men can take the rights of another man. A democracy is mob rule where 2 can take the freedoms of one. They are nothing alike.

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Mar 23, 2019 09:57:31   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
A constitutional democratic republic is a type of government based on the principles of a constitution in which officials elected by the people represent the people in the legislative and governing processes. A constitutional republic is not a direct democracy in that a mere plurality of the voters does not get to control the processes of the government directly.

The United States is an example of a constitutional democratic republic. The government is run according to the principles of an established Constitution, and the people do not pass laws based on a direct majority. Rather, they elect representatives to a legislative body who can then represent their interests but who can only pass laws that adhere to the principles of the Constitution.

One of the main principles of the U.S. Constitution is the division of powers among the three parts of the government, the executive, legislative, and judicial branches, through a system of checks and balances. The executive branch has the power to veto laws passed by the legislative branch that it deems unconstitutional. If challenged by the people, the judicial branch has the power to strike down laws it considers unconstitutional. The legislative branch, however, retains the powers to revise such laws so that it meets the constitutional benchmarks as expressed by other branches, and it also retains the important power of passing new laws.

https://www.reference.com/government-politics/constitutional-democratic-republic-94535bfb08c336da

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Mar 23, 2019 10:01:12   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
What examples of 'historical democracies' are we looking at for comparison?


A lynch mob is a democracy in action.

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