Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I too was a member of Greenpeace until they went stupid. When I was a member, Moore was listed among its “founders and first members” on their website and handouts before quietly changing their advertisement around 2007. I think that was about the same time that he began to talk about 'sensible' energy that includes moving away from fossil fuel. Although I find his defense of atomic energy problematic, I distinctly recall the stop the whaling campaign and preserving many species (animal and vegetation) that was on the extinction lists. Now Greenpeace float around in million dollar yachts on champaign vacations. And they wrongly state that the world is getting warmer whereas core samples say just the opposite.... if anything, and if history repeats, we are heading into the start (every 170 years) when the world gets cooler and drier. Each of these 'stages' last for about 200 to 300 years. Amazing thing, all great civilizations formed while the earth warms and more unrest happens as the earth cools. It is all in the cycle of the sun (which itself is cooling) and the speed that magnetic north shifts... used to be 9 miles a year and the last move was 34 miles. It is moving quickly toward Siberia.... this affects all kinds of atmospheric changes.... from rain patterns to hurricanes and earthquake activity.

Rose42

I don't find it suspicious because both sides pick their experts and they only pick those who are favorable to their agenda. We can take none of them at their word and have to sift through what they say. Not only that but look hard at the integrity of those who appointed them.

Man-made climate change is still debatable even though democrats don't want it to be. There is no slam dunk consensus. What isn't debatable is we have to clean up our act with regards to the planet.

IMO

rumitoid

I agree, Rose. I can't sort it out. Both sides may have an agenda for politics and gain, but our future and that of our nation and family might be at stake. We must not make this a political football, follow party lines. We need to educate ourselves as best we can and remain open-minded on the topic.

Rose42

I totally agree.

Morgan

True enough, he once was involved with the group, his views have diverged substantially since he left in 1986. Although Mr. Moore played a significant role in Greenpeace Canada for several years, he did not found Greenpeace. Phil Cotes, Irving Stowe, and Jim Bohlen founded Greenpeace in 1970.

Morgan

Stating the earth is warming is not wrong. You have a contradiction here, first you say Green peace "wrongly" states we are getting warming, but then the ice core say the opposite, if they are stating the opposite, then the earth warming is correct. While there are small dips year to year the incline has been consistent year to year, especially in the last five years.

There are many variables to the "weather" which then tracks our yearly climate changes. There are also many variables to the location on earth. What core samples have shown the reverse?

Few areas at the poles have seen more ice, but in general, we've lost miles of glaciers, more importantly, the perennial deep ice, not the yearly annual ice.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Well, it is not a contradiction. Let me try to put this in real simple terms... We are not getting "warming" but rather the earth is cooling down as it has done for thousands of years right before mini ice ages. Ice core samples are taken from hundreds of yards into ice caps and due to deposits in those samples a determination of heating/cooling/seismographic changes and disturbances/melting and refreezing can be determined. And right now those samples point to the earth cooling rather than warming up. Of course one could rely on the work published by Murphy 2009 in which he says that the earth is warming based on surface temperatures of the oceans and seas.

Since 1998 there has been no appreciative variations in heat transfer. In fact, 1998 was the hottest year on record and temperatures have slowly declined. One explanation of the excessive heat transfer that year has to do with the very strong el El Nino. Consequently, we experienced above-average surface temperatures. Conversely, the last few years have seen moderate La Nina conditions which had a cooling effect on global temperatures. El Nino and La Nino are natural phenomenon experienced in the equatorial Pacific which causes temporary alterations in the world climate.

As for ice melting, NASA has this to say "According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.

“We’re essentially in agreement with other studies that show an increase in ice discharge in the Antarctic Peninsula and the Thwaites and Pine Island region of West Antarctica,” said Jay Zwally, a glaciologist with NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and lead author of the study, which was published on Oct. 30 in the Journal of Glaciology.

The trend of melting ice cap in the Arctic has been going on for over 20,000 years. It is a cycle the earth has gone through for millions of years. I do not think primitive man started the most recent events.... and I do not think it had anything to do with cow flatulence.

Having said this, I do not deny that the surface of the earth is going through some substantial changes and we need to do a better job of protecting our planet. I firmly believe that the world is over populated and we are due for a reduction whether caused by human or a natural phenomenon. I also believe that we are using an excess of carbon based fuel and that is harming our atmosphere. Alternative fuels must be found and incorporated into our life styles. I would be saying this regardless of the warming or cooling of the planet, it is only commonsense.

Morgan

Have a nice night...sigh

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

You as well.

Morgan

Let me first restate that no one is denying that the sun and moon do not impact our climate, it certainly does, as a matter of fact, these are the main causes in our yearly lows and highs on our climate graphs. We are also not suggesting we are "the cause" to global warming, but we have been accelerating it. There is also some on the right accusing us of stating we don't need C02, of course we do.

We can think of it this way, when a person takes in too much sugar, the system malfunctions, their metabolism doesn't work correctly and they become diabetic, which will slowly begin to deteriorate the body, leading to an earlier death. But the body needs sugar to survive, we can't eliminate completely, but the diet is changed to allow the body to manage it. Wow, I just thought of that...LOL

What is most important, is that these changes can't be pushed back year after year so they never happen, and that is what has happened for the past forty years or more.