PeterS wrote:
What always gives me a grin about conservatives is that they are so ashamed of their own history that they will adopt liberal ideals and actions as their own all while denouncing what would be typical conservative behavior of the time. In today's conservatives mind, they are the abolitionists all while not understanding that as conservatives--by definition--they are tasked to maintaining status quo thus would be the Southern plantation owner--or siding with such--who were in a fight for their way of life.
JW and I got in this very debate several weeks ago where he took the position that historically conservatives were the ones who were progressive and were responsible for pushing for change throughout the history of this country. According to JW, conservatives thumbed your noses as status quo--at tradition--and instead stood up for change whether in the creation of this country, the civil war and freeing of the slaves, standing against Jim Crow laws, standing FOR workers rights and child labor laws. Standing for women's rights etc, etc, etc.
Now I understand why JW is taking the position that he is taking--if he didn't then he would have to admit that historically conservatives were the racists and the bigots...and the ones who were trying to maintain racism and bigotry as a tradition in this country then...and today.
And as our countries number one bigot likes to say...that's just sad...
What always gives me a grin about conservatives is... (
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In recent times, the Republicans were always the arch conservatives and the Democrats were always more identified with the lower middle class following an English tradition of Lords and Commons translated as Liberal / Labour in Australia and Republican / Democrat in the States.
In practice however the representation will often vacillate, for example in Britain the Blair government was more Aristocratic than the Aristocrats, this is also true in the US the pendulum swings according to personalities at the top of each party, if a Conservative government is in the highest office it makes sense to plug up the interests of the bottom this was Trump's best bet, which he didn't take.
Likewise if a Socialist is holding Court like the Tony Blair for Global Change did it for successfully the Upper Class.
This is our time, so if you give Trump a second term it won't be the same as the last 27 months.
Trump started with the alt-right ascendency in France,Germany, Czechoslovakia and Italy as these Countries embraced extreme right and left alternatives despite the fact that these Nations were relatively stable, except for the immigration issue, Greece was adversely affected but had more pressing problums to worry about which is interesting.
Maybe it was because the tradition of anti fascism in Greece since the war prevented the altright gaining momentum in Greece exploiting the situation but I'm not sure about that.
Compare that to the deadly violence of Charlottesville, VA in August 2017.
Beware of Greeks Bearing Gifts: How Neo-Nazies and Ancient Greeks Met in Charlottesville.
origins.osu.edu
From Ohio State University and Miami University. Article by Denise Eileen McCoskey.
Donald Trump refused to condemn the violance caused by the white supremacist hate groups.
I don't think that situation would be tolerated again.
Alt-righ are employing the symbols of the Ancient World to give themselves legitimacy not necessarily specifically Nazi symbols, Charlottesville was the best example of this.
This alt-right movement does use fascist emblums in Eastern
Europe but it's illegal in Germany although the ancient symbols of Greece mean the same thing.
I think Trump was riding this wave that began with the snipers of the Maidan 2014 which was the Colour Revolution that Paul Manafort was a principal actor in, whose side he was on is unclear, I think he was getting paid by both.
The revolution failed and split the the Ukraine, also the Yellow Vest protests in France will be the pattern for street action in the future, if there is any in the States, and Yellow Vests are bipartisan no symbols allowed.
A lot of the Comments on this topic have expressed views with either the Republicans or the Democrats being the party representing future popular political sentiment, the strongest current driving the political plankton will best feed the smartest Whale.
Going by International trends it's definitely the Democrats unloading their hippie bagage that plugged up Obama and rejected Hillary that is driving the International agendas, Trumps appeal really came from the hippy alternative that ended up as alt-righ being pushed off the streets, now 4 years in its just ended and Trump can't seem to recognise his situation.