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The Basic Division That's Dividing Americans In This Country Is In Front Of Our Faces
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Feb 14, 2019 17:14:35   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
waltmoreno wrote:
Hey permie, Can you think out your position on the environment logically for a moment?
Assume the US is all in on the environment. We get back into the Paris climate accords. So we're spending billions of dollars to keep the planet within a couple of degrees or so for the next decade. But the real problem polluters like China, Russia, Mexico aren't willing to spend that kind of money. So what is the end result? We go broke chasing unicorns and rainbows. (FYI, that's the real objective of those who worship at that alter.)
Consider also that capitalist societies already police themselves far more insofar as environmental policies than communist or totalitarian societies. After all, who wants to spend their money on companies which excessively pollute the environment? And you can be sure that that information will be made public in a free capitalist society.
Most importantly, consider for a moment that a single solar flare or volcano on earth can undo decades of leading an austere, strictly environmentally-conscious life. It's so presumptive for humans to think they can control climate change on earth. They can't.
Hey permie, Can you think out your position on the... (show quote)




You must know better the that volcano stuff.. they do not amount even `1% of human output.. all of them together..



Reply
Feb 14, 2019 17:23:31   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Hadenough wrote:
Perm,

So you don’t have a problem with your boy giving billions of dollars to Iran a known sponsor of terrorism, because it was their money.
My question to you is, are you okay with giving a known murderer (not convicted) his gun back because it’s his? Yes or no.
Or give a drunk driver a car that is under the influence because it’s his? Yes or no
Now don’t go into dem 5D mode: Deflect
Give an honest answer if you’re capable.

Tick Tock Tick Tock TDS boom
MAGA




What the Iran situation is about.

the money was Irans.. not ours, we had no right to it..

But the issue is... will the United States honor international agreements?

With your orange chief, the answer is no.. even our NATO allies are concerned..

the Iran agreement was working and is still in effect except for our part..

When our nation sinks so low that we can not be trusted to keep our word, it is very close to the end of our leadership of the free world..

On all fronts we have declined in our role.. China is clearly set to supplant us as the leading economy.

we have had international meeting which we were not invited to attend..

Our trading partners are finding alternative to trading with us.. the future will be modest because of this..

Your gun and car comparisons are not even close to real..

what is 5D?? some secret right wing slang??



Reply
Feb 14, 2019 17:23:57   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
permafrost wrote:
Gosh walt,,, where should I begin???

Well, I am not about to try and inform you for all the incorrect information (lies) you have posted, I am pretty sure you know most of that..

But I will point out that the Paris accord on the climate change problem is nothing like the gutting of the EPA which in time could affect my lake and directly affect the life of whoever live here.

while the most important threat of that is the Poly-met mine operation that may well be allowed to go into this area and could well destroy the wilderness canoe area and even the lake Superior water shed..

But, as for the accord.. the truth is that China, India and every major industrial nation in the world is joining in the CC battle and they are putting out the share of cost that is required.

they are not sitting waiting on the US to do anything.. money or effort..

In the real world the need is well accepted and apart from the fossil fueled financing of the american right wingers no deniers are in play..

So, while the paper companies are mostly under control the fossil fuel industries in our nation are throwing money in piles to slow the incoming changes to the way business is conducted in our nation..

And as I read you comments... are you for one minute saying you think bottom line concerned business would be for one minute concerned with our health, well being and living standards??

They have proved time after time that is the last thing they are going to address..

Regulations are needed for very good reason and that fact is the most dominant..
Gosh walt,,, where should I begin??? br br Well, ... (show quote)


http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/coal/despite-paris-agreement-china-india-continue-build-coal-plants/

Reply
 
 
Feb 14, 2019 17:31:09   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
padremike wrote:
Nice try but we don't agree with your perverted view . Do I believe you Marxist amoral Pogressives need to be stopped? Unquestionably! By violence if necessary? Yes, as prescribed under the provisions given to Constitutional, freedom loving Americans under the second amendment of the Constitution. Do you have any clear understanding of what I'm talking about?




You are a strange padre,, mike for sure..

Do you think for on second that the right wingers could pickup the guns.. run down the street and kill all the bad guys at the local mall or something?


I need to back up and ask you... just how do you envision your shooting war to be conducted?

who are you going to shoot? you next door neighbor?

Your congressman, storm washing buildings and shoot those in office..

attack the nearest military base?

tell me how...



Reply
Feb 14, 2019 17:45:29   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/coal/despite-paris-agreement-china-india-continue-build-coal-plants/


It is not a quick process to shed the use of fossil fuels.. just as we need to curtail building of new pipelines, china and India must both work for the end of coal.. is is a time consuming effort, they are doing well but still have far to go..

they are recognizing the need and developing the replacements, but they also have had to resort to some use of coal and has gone up 1% last year.. thay have cut back both on project and actual use..

the world is working to replace coal.. it is happening.. even as we are being obstructed the rest of the world has dictated that US coal production is dropping even while trump promote its use..

https://qz.com/1235125/the-number-of-coal-plants-worldwide-is-shrinking-but-nowhere-near-enough/

The world is walking away from coal. But to meet the targets for limiting global warming set out by the 2015 Paris Agreement, it must pick up the pace.

According to a report published yesterday (pdf) by Greenpeace, CoalSwarm, and the Sierra Club, the number of new coal plants being developed around the world continued to decline between 2015 and 2017. As of January, the world had seen a 29% year-on-year drop in construction starts, and a 73% drop in them in the past two years, according to the report (p. 4). Meanwhile, the number of newly completed coal plants fell 28% year-on-year in 2017.

“With declining deployment and high levels of retirement, coal power capacity is now caught in a squeeze: if current trends continue, by 2022 yearly retirements will exceed new capacity and the global coal fleet will begin to shrink,” notes the report (pdf, p. 3).

What happens in China and India is of vital importance. China continues to be the leading country in coal production and consumption. It added 34 gigawatts of capacity from coal plants in 2017. But, in a promising sign, that was around half its capacity increase in 2015, according to the report (p. 8). India added 9 GW to its total capacity last year, a sharp decline from 2016.

In recent years China, the world’s largest carbon emitter, has been particularly aggressive in addressing its coal overcapacity and related air pollution problems. Last year the central government stopped or delayed work on about 150 planned coal-fired power plants, and since last autumn it’s been directing northern cities to use natural gas rather than coal for heating homes. India, also faced with acute environmental challenges, is marching toward clean energy as well. In the financial year 2016-2017, it added more renewable energy capacity than thermal power capacity—a first, notes the report (p. 9)


Yet the world needs to do more to meet the target set out in the 2015 Paris agreement, which calls for limiting global warming this century to an increase of between 1.5°C and 2°C. The report suggests canceling all current development of coal plants, and retiring many of the existing plants before they reach the end of their lifespan, about 40 years on average.

Meanwhile there are troubling signs. Global coal demand increased 1% in 2017 (pdf, p. 7), following two years of declines, according to a report by the International Energy Agency published this month. China saw a 0.3% increase in coal demand after three years of declines, driven mostly by the desire for air-conditioning during a particularly hot summer.

Meanwhile, the report notes, global carbon emissions grew by 1.4% last year, due mainly to output by Asian countries.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 18:13:03   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
permafrost wrote:
You are a strange padre,, mike for sure..

Do you think for on second that the right wingers could pickup the guns.. run down the street and kill all the bad guys at the local mall or something?


I need to back up and ask you... just how do you envision your shooting war to be conducted?

who are you going to shoot? you next door neighbor?

Your congressman, storm washing buildings and shoot those in office..

attack the nearest military base?

tell me how...
You are a strange padre,, mike for sure.. br br ... (show quote)


I don't know. How did the last civil war begin? I suspect there were minor skirmishes before the full impact. You progressives are actually more evil in your philosophy and agenda than slavery ever was or ever could be. The South wanted to preserve a way of life. You people want to completely destroy the way of traditional American life including morals, values and spirituality and reconstruct a new government.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 18:17:08   #
Hadenough
 
permafrost wrote:
What the Iran situation is about.

the money was Irans.. not ours, we had no right to it..

But the issue is... will the United States honor international agreements?

With your orange chief, the answer is no.. even our NATO allies are concerned..

the Iran agreement was working and is still in effect except for our part..

When our nation sinks so low that we can not be trusted to keep our word, it is very close to the end of our leadership of the free world..

On all fronts we have declined in our role.. China is clearly set to supplant us as the leading economy.

we have had international meeting which we were not invited to attend..

Our trading partners are finding alternative to trading with us.. the future will be modest because of this..

Your gun and car comparisons are not even close to real..

what is 5D?? some secret right wing slang??
What the Iran situation is about. br br the mone... (show quote)


Spoken like a true libtard, simple yes or no and you go into a BS storm instead of responding. You have no problem with a country shouting “death to America and Israel”. The questions of a murderer and drunk are no different than giving funds to a terror sponsor.
You have shown your true colors and allegiance to the undermining of this country.
“We have had international meeting we were not invited to”? Duh, why didn’t we invite ourselves?
Not any kind of secret, anyone with a brain knows it. Key word “Brain”
I will try to simplify 5D mode for you, although I have posted it on this thread several times. You are already proficient at it, evident by your posts.
Are you ready?
5D dem mode:

#1 Disrupt
#2. Deny
#3 Deceive
#4 Deflect
#5. Delusional
I hope I didn’t confuse you by putting numbers. Actually you’re very proficient at all five.
I do believe you’re related to comrade nikki. He does the same as you, lol

Tick Tock Tick Tock TDS boom
MAGA

Reply
 
 
Feb 14, 2019 18:20:22   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
permafrost wrote:
It is not a quick process to shed the use of fossil fuels.. just as we need to curtail building of new pipelines, china and India must both work for the end of coal.. is is a time consuming effort, they are doing well but still have far to go..

they are recognizing the need and developing the replacements, but they also have had to resort to some use of coal and has gone up 1% last year.. thay have cut back both on project and actual use..

the world is working to replace coal.. it is happening.. even as we are being obstructed the rest of the world has dictated that US coal production is dropping even while trump promote its use..

https://qz.com/1235125/the-number-of-coal-plants-worldwide-is-shrinking-but-nowhere-near-enough/

The world is walking away from coal. But to meet the targets for limiting global warming set out by the 2015 Paris Agreement, it must pick up the pace.

According to a report published yesterday (pdf) by Greenpeace, CoalSwarm, and the Sierra Club, the number of new coal plants being developed around the world continued to decline between 2015 and 2017. As of January, the world had seen a 29% year-on-year drop in construction starts, and a 73% drop in them in the past two years, according to the report (p. 4). Meanwhile, the number of newly completed coal plants fell 28% year-on-year in 2017.

“With declining deployment and high levels of retirement, coal power capacity is now caught in a squeeze: if current trends continue, by 2022 yearly retirements will exceed new capacity and the global coal fleet will begin to shrink,” notes the report (pdf, p. 3).

What happens in China and India is of vital importance. China continues to be the leading country in coal production and consumption. It added 34 gigawatts of capacity from coal plants in 2017. But, in a promising sign, that was around half its capacity increase in 2015, according to the report (p. 8). India added 9 GW to its total capacity last year, a sharp decline from 2016.

In recent years China, the world’s largest carbon emitter, has been particularly aggressive in addressing its coal overcapacity and related air pollution problems. Last year the central government stopped or delayed work on about 150 planned coal-fired power plants, and since last autumn it’s been directing northern cities to use natural gas rather than coal for heating homes. India, also faced with acute environmental challenges, is marching toward clean energy as well. In the financial year 2016-2017, it added more renewable energy capacity than thermal power capacity—a first, notes the report (p. 9)


Yet the world needs to do more to meet the target set out in the 2015 Paris agreement, which calls for limiting global warming this century to an increase of between 1.5°C and 2°C. The report suggests canceling all current development of coal plants, and retiring many of the existing plants before they reach the end of their lifespan, about 40 years on average.

Meanwhile there are troubling signs. Global coal demand increased 1% in 2017 (pdf, p. 7), following two years of declines, according to a report by the International Energy Agency published this month. China saw a 0.3% increase in coal demand after three years of declines, driven mostly by the desire for air-conditioning during a particularly hot summer.

Meanwhile, the report notes, global carbon emissions grew by 1.4% last year, due mainly to output by Asian countries.
It is not a quick process to shed the use of fossi... (show quote)




""With the United States on its way to official withdrawal, China and Germany are expected to take the lead promoting the Paris Agreement.[i] This is despite China’s role in constructing over 700 new coal-fired power plants around the world. According to Urgewald, an environmental group based in Berlin, some of these new coal plants will be built in countries that burn little or no coal today. While many of the coal plants will be located in China, about one-fifth of the capacity of these new coal power plants is going to be located in other countries.[ii]

China is not alone in constructing coal-fired power plants. According to Urgewald, about 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries; this data comes from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal. If constructed, these new plants would increase global coal-fired capacity by 43 percent. According to Urgewald, 11 of the world’s 20 biggest coal plant developers are Chinese.""


I think some one is missing the big picture!!

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 19:16:47   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
padremike wrote:
I don't know. How did the last civil war begin? I suspect there were minor skirmishes before the full impact. You progressives are actually more evil in your philosophy and agenda than slavery ever was or ever could be. The South wanted to preserve a way of life. You people want to completely destroy the way of traditional American life including morals, values and spirituality and reconstruct a new government.



You dare question the morals of others while you support a satanic demon like trump?

The evil you fear is in the orange mouth of the scum which defiles our white house..



Reply
Feb 14, 2019 19:21:09   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Hadenough wrote:
Spoken like a true libtard, simple yes or no and you go into a BS storm instead of responding. You have no problem with a country shouting “death to America and Israel”. The questions of a murderer and drunk are no different than giving funds to a terror sponsor.
You have shown your true colors and allegiance to the undermining of this country.
“We have had international meeting we were not invited to”? Duh, why didn’t we invite ourselves?
Not any kind of secret, anyone with a brain knows it. Key word “Brain”
I will try to simplify 5D mode for you, although I have posted it on this thread several times. You are already proficient at it, evident by your posts.
Are you ready?
5D dem mode:

#1 Disrupt
#2. Deny
#3 Deceive
#4 Deflect
#5. Delusional
I hope I didn’t confuse you by putting numbers. Actually you’re very proficient at all five.
I do believe you’re related to comrade nikki. He does the same as you, lol

Tick Tock Tick Tock TDS boom
MAGA
Spoken like a true libtard, simple yes or no and y... (show quote)




You seem to be another of those who think every problem has only 2 solutions and if someone does not agree with your POV 100% they are wrong..

life is not that simply we do not have yes or no problems, nothing i zero or one, white of black.

if you do not have the gonads to consider all the points, do not try and debate..



Reply
Feb 14, 2019 19:30:29   #
Mikeyavelli
 
permafrost wrote:
You dare question the morals of others while you support a satanic demon like trump?

The evil you fear is in the orange mouth of the scum which defiles our white house..


But we have an American in the Whitehouse now. Quite a switch.
Now the First Lady is the foreigner and the President is the American.

Reply
 
 
Feb 14, 2019 19:30:42   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
[quote=nwtk2007]""With the United States on its way to official withdrawal, China and Germany are expected to take the lead promoting the Paris Agreement.[i] This is despite China’s role in constructing over 700 new coal-fired power plants around the world. According to Urgewald, an environmental group based in Berlin, some of these new coal plants will be built in countries that burn little or no coal today. While many of the coal plants will be located in China, about one-fifth of the capacity of these new coal power plants is going to be located in other countries.[ii]

China is not alone in constructing coal-fired power plants. According to Urgewald, about 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries; this data comes from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal. If constructed, these new plants would increase global coal-fired capacity by 43 percent. According to Urgewald, 11 of the world’s 20 biggest coal plant developers are Chinese.""


I think some one is missing the big picture!![/quote]



It seems strange that while the Chinese are clearly on a program away from coal and have canceled coal plant construction in their own nation and the overall direction is reduction of coal use world wide that you post news about new construction..

Is your information outdated? do you have a link?

China has been one of the leaders in renewable and redirection of power generation for a decade or so..

More to the point, we while in a leader position for the world set the standard for new technology and development.. now we are fighting simply to keep our own air and water usable.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 19:33:27   #
Hadenough
 
permafrost wrote:
You seem to be another of those who think every problem has only 2 solutions and if someone does not agree with your POV 100% they are wrong..

life is not that simply we do not have yes or no problems, nothing i zero or one, white of black.

if you do not have the gonads to consider all the points, do not try and debate..


Lol, now you question my manhood. I never said life was simple, some questions are and some people are, you have proven that. If you only knew how to debate, we could. You take your liberal sources as gospel. You can’t respond or won’t when you know you’re cornered. That’s okay, just curl up and go into dem 5D mode, I hope I don’t have to explain it again.
Now about my gonads, mine are where they are supposed to be, the two you have resting on your chin belong to obummer, keep them he never needed them anyway.

Tick Tock Tick Tock TDS boom
MAGA
Don’t forget your mantra!

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 19:35:15   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Mikeyavelli wrote:
But we have an American in the Whitehouse now. Quite a switch.
Now the First Lady is the foreigner and the President is the American.




I think that orange guy wishes he was still a German and could have been a Hitler youth member..

That illegal immigrant who was purchased and citizenship because she was not the pages of skin mags is hardly a symbol of American values.

Your implicit hate for the fine President we had before the orange man is revealed by your lies about his citizenship..



Reply
Feb 14, 2019 19:39:49   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Hadenough wrote:
Lol, now you question my manhood. I never said life was simple, some questions are and some people are, you have proven that. If you only knew how to debate, we could. You take your liberal sources as gospel. You can’t respond or won’t when you know you’re cornered. That’s okay, just curl up and go into dem 5D mode, I hope I don’t have to explain it again.
Now about my gonads, mine are where they are supposed to be, the two you have resting on your chin belong to obummer, keep them he never needed them anyway.

Tick Tock Tick Tock TDS boom
MAGA
Don’t forget your mantra!
Lol, now you question my manhood. I never said li... (show quote)





sorry, I did not know you were insecure about your manhood, I will try not to cause you any concern on that issue. it must be difficult for you..

I very seldom use a single source, rather I pick from a number of articles..

you ask, I give you an answer that is all i can do, I have no control or ability to make you understand..

think as you will..



Reply
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