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Exposing the idolatry of Mary worship - what the Bible says
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Dec 8, 2018 16:26:07   #
Rose42
 
-snip

It is idolatry in the clearest form. And to deal with this we need only really to do two things, biblically. One is to see what the Bible says about idolatry, and the other is to see what the Bible actually says about Mary. And then, we will clearly understand that they have invented a goddess to worship who has no relationship to the true Mary, the mother of Jesus revealed in Scripture, the historical Mary.

Psalm 115: “Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to Thy name give glory because of Thy loving-kindness, because of Thy truth. Why should the nations say, ‘Where, now, is their God?’ But our God is in the heavens. He does whatever He pleases. The idols are silver and gold, the work of man’s hands. They have mouths, but they cannot speak; they have eyes, but they cannot see; they have ears, but they cannot hear; they have noses, but they cannot smell; they have hands, but they cannot feel; they have feet, but they cannot walk; they cannot make a sound with their throat. Those who make them will become like them, everyone who trusts in them. O Israel, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield. O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord; He is their help and their shield. You, who fear the Lord, trust in the Lord; He is their help and their shield. The Lord has been mindful of us. He will bless us. He will bless the house of Israel. He will bless the house of Aaron. He will bless those who fear the Lord, the small together with the great. May the Lord give you increase, you and your children. May you be blessed of the Lord, maker of heaven and earth. The heavens are the heavens of the Lord; but the earth He has given to the sons of men. The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence. But as for us, we will bless the Lord from this time forth and forever. Praise the Lord.”

The Lord alone is to be glorified. The Lord is the source of loving-kindness. The Lord is the source of truth. The Lord is to be trusted. He is our help and our shield. The Lord alone is to be feared. He again is our help and our shield. The Lord does not need to be reminded about us, He is mindful of us, He will bless us. He is to receive all our praise. In Psalm 116: “I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live.” I don’t need another God. I don’t need a mediator. I don’t need an intermediary. I don’t need someone to plead my case before God. Even in the direst circumstance, verse 3, “The cords of death encompassed me, the terrors of Sheol came me. I found distress and sorrow. Then I called upon the name of the Lord: ‘O Lord, I beseech Thee, save my life.’“ You will remember that Pope John Paul II when he was shot kept crying, “Mary, save me. Mary, save me. Mary, save me.”

Psalm 117, “Praise the Lord, all nations; laud Him, all peoples, for His loving-kindness is great toward us, and the truth of the Lord is everlasting. Praise the Lord.” Psalm 118, “Give thanks to the Lord for He is good. For His loving-kindness is everlasting. O let Israel say, ‘His loving-kindness is everlasting.’ O let the house of Aaron say, ‘His loving-kindness is everlasting.’ O let those who fear the Lord say, ‘His loving-kindness is everlasting.’“

The Roman Catholic view of Mary calls into question the compassion, the sympathy, the loving-kindness of God. It places in the people’s minds doubt about God’s care, concern, sympathy, compassion, and interest in their plight. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Bible ends in the 22nd chapter of Revelation with John having heard the amazing revelations, and in this particular case from an angel, when he heard, verse 8 of Revelation 22, it says, “I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. And he said to me, ‘Do not do that/ I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren, the prophets, and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.’“ In another scene in the book of Revelation there is an angel, an everlasting, flying through heaven with an everlasting message, “Worship God. Worship God,” who is to be worshiped as our Redeemer, our Benefactor, our Comforter, our Sympathizer, our Deliverer.

-snip

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/90-317/exposing-the-idolatry-of-mary-worship-what-the-bible-says

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Dec 8, 2018 16:40:37   #
Rose42
 
From the same article -

the worship of Mary is an attack on God Himself. Mary becomes the mother of the Son of God. Mary becomes the mother of God, in their language. She is called the Queen of heaven, and therefore she is the rival of the King of heaven, the sovereign God Himself. As we have learned, she is granted sovereignty. She is worthy of worship, worthy of praise. She demands if you want salvation, that you adore her, that you love her, that you enthrone her because she is loving, gracious, merciful. She is all-knowing, all seeing, and all powerful. De Liguori in “The Glories of Mary,” page 566, quote: “At the command of Mary all obey, even God.” Blasphemy against God.

This goddess worship is also blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Mary is the comforter. Mary is the sympathizer. Mary is the helper. Mary is the empowerer. Mary is the advocate. Mary is the encourager. Mary is even the sanctifier who works to make her children pure.

This goddess worship is also an attack against the Son. She becomes a counterfeit savior: born sinless, without the stain of original sin, living a sinless life. She is called the all-holy child. She becomes redeemer, provider of salvation, dispenser of forgiveness, source of all blessing, from salvation to glorification. She is called the all-holy one, clearly a title belonging only to God. And if you’ve been with us for the last three weeks, you have felt the heat of the blasphemy. So, the blaspheming is the first thing to understand in conclusion. Secondly, let’s call it the comparing. We need to do a little comparing here. What does Scripture say about Mary? What is the real story of Mary?

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Dec 8, 2018 16:51:51   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
From the same article -

the worship of Mary is an attack on God Himself. Mary becomes the mother of the Son of God. Mary becomes the mother of God, in their language. She is called the Queen of heaven, and therefore she is the rival of the King of heaven, the sovereign God Himself. As we have learned, she is granted sovereignty. She is worthy of worship, worthy of praise. She demands if you want salvation, that you adore her, that you love her, that you enthrone her because she is loving, gracious, merciful. She is all-knowing, all seeing, and all powerful. De Liguori in “The Glories of Mary,” page 566, quote: “At the command of Mary all obey, even God.” Blasphemy against God.

This goddess worship is also blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Mary is the comforter. Mary is the sympathizer. Mary is the helper. Mary is the empowerer. Mary is the advocate. Mary is the encourager. Mary is even the sanctifier who works to make her children pure.

This goddess worship is also an attack against the Son. She becomes a counterfeit savior: born sinless, without the stain of original sin, living a sinless life. She is called the all-holy child. She becomes redeemer, provider of salvation, dispenser of forgiveness, source of all blessing, from salvation to glorification. She is called the all-holy one, clearly a title belonging only to God. And if you’ve been with us for the last three weeks, you have felt the heat of the blasphemy. So, the blaspheming is the first thing to understand in conclusion. Secondly, let’s call it the comparing. We need to do a little comparing here. What does Scripture say about Mary? What is the real story of Mary?
From the same article - br br b the worship of M... (show quote)


Itis a far cry different than what the Roman Catholic Church has put out there that is for sure. They are leading all of their church down the garden path to perdition and they seem not to care that they are sentencing children to hell and the others that are believing in them along with them. It must take really callous men to with hold the truth from those that are truly looking to find God. It is like that passage where if your child asks you for some food would you give him a bone well it appears that that is exactly what the Roman Catholic Church is doing hear. The children are asking for some food and the Roman Catholic Church is tossing them a bone to chew on.

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Dec 8, 2018 16:59:35   #
Rose42
 
Doc is manically trying to justify the idol worship of the Catholics. This ark of the new covenant thing is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen with regards to Mary. She'd be horrified if she knew what was going on.

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Dec 8, 2018 17:37:13   #
Doc110 Loc: York PA
 
BLESSED VIRGIN WAS FILLED WITH GOD'S GRACE
Pope John Paul II
General Audience given 8 May 1996.
1. In the account of the Annunciation, the first word of the Angel's greeting, "Rejoice", is an invitation to joy which recalls the oracles of the Old Testament addressed to the "daughter of Zion". We pointed this out in our previous catecheses and also explained the reasons for this invitation: God's presence among his people, the coming of the messianic king and maternal fruitfulness. These reasons are fulfilled in Mary.

The Angel Gabriel, addressing the Virgin of Nazareth after the greeting, chaire, "Rejoice", calls her Kecharitomene, "full of grace". The words of the Greek text, chaire and Kecharitomene, are deeply interconnected: Mary is invited to rejoice primarily because God loves her and has filled her with grace in view of her divine motherhood!

The Church's faith and the experience of the saints teach us that grace is a source of joy, and that true joy comes from God. In Mary, as in Christians, the divine gift produces deep joy.

2. Kecharitomene: this term addressed to Mary seems to be the proper way to describe the woman destined to become the mother of Jesus. Lumen gentium appropriately recalls this when it affirms: "The Virgin of Nazareth is hailed by the heralding angel, by divine command, as 'full of grace'" (Lumen gentium, n. 56).

The fact that the heavenly messenger addresses her in this way enhances the value of the angelic greeting: it is a manifestation of God's mysterious saving plan in Mary's regard. As I wrote in the Encyclical Redemptoris Mater: "'The fullness of grace' indicates all the supernatural munificence from which Mary benefits by being chosen and destined to be the Mother of Christ" (n 9).

God granted Mary the fullness of grace

"Full of grace" is the name Mary possesses in the eyes of God. Indeed, the angel, according to the Evangelist Luke's account, uses this expression even before he speaks the name "Mary", and thus emphasizes the predominant aspect which the Lord perceived in the Virgin of Nazareth's personality.

The expression "Full of grace" is the translation of the Greek word Kecharitomene, which is a passive participle. Therefore to render more exactly the nuance of the Greek word one should not say merely "full of grace", but "made full of grace", or even "filled with grace", which would clearly indicate that this was a gift given by God to the Blessed Virgin. This term, in the form of a perfect participle, enhances the image of a perfect and lasting grace which implies fullness. The same verb, in the sense of "to bestow grace", is used in the Letter to the Ephesians to indicate the abundance of grace granted to us by the Father in his beloved Son (Eph 1:6), and which Mary receives as the first fruits of Redemption (cf. Redemptoris Mater, n. 10).

3. In the Virgin's case, God's action certainly seems surprising. Mary has no human claim to receiving the announcement of the Messiah's coming. She is not the high priest, official representative of the Hebrew religion, nor even a man, but a young woman without any influence in the society of her time. In addition, she is a native of Nazareth, a village which is never mentioned in the Old Testament. It must not have enjoyed a good reputation, as Nathanael's question, recorded in John's Gospel makes clear: "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" (Jn 1:46).

The extraordinary and gratuitous nature of God's intervention becomes even clearer in comparison with Luke's text which recounts what happened to Zechariah. The latter's priestly status is highlighted as well as his exemplary life which make him and his wife Elizabeth models of Old Testament righteousness: they walked "blameless in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord" (Lk 1:6)

But we are not informed of Mary's origins either: the expression "of the house of David" (Lk 1:27) in fact refers only to Joseph. No mention is made then of Mary's behaviour. With this literary choice, Luke stresses that everything in Mary derives from a sovereign grace. All that is granted to her is not due to any claim of merit, but only to God's free and gratuitous choice.

God's mercy reaches the highest degree in Mary

4. In so doing, the Evangelist does not of course intend to downplay the outstanding personal value of the Blessed Virgin. Rather, he wishes to present Mary as the pure fruit of God's goodwill: he has so taken possession of her as to make her, according to the title used by the Angel, "full of grace". The abundance of grace itself is the basis of Mary's hidden spiritual richness.

In the Old Testament, Yahweh expresses the superabundance of his love in many ways and on many occasions. At the dawn of the New Testament, the gratuitousness of God's mercy reaches the highest degree in Mary. In her, God's predilection, shown to the chosen people and in particular to the humble and the poor, reaches its culmination.

Nourished by the Word of the Lord and the experience of the saints, the Church urges believers to keep their gaze fixed on the Mother of the Redeemer and to consider themselves, like her, loved by God. She invites them to share Our Lady's humility and poverty, so that, after her example and through her intercession, they may persevere in the grace of God who sanctifies and transforms hearts.

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Dec 8, 2018 18:26:44   #
Rose42
 
Pope John Paul II cried out to Mary NOT God when he was shot. That alone shows he puts an idol above God. Blasphemy.

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Dec 12, 2018 14:34:54   #
Rose42
 
“False gods, attempts to represent the true God, and indeed, all material things which are worshipped, are so much filth upon the face of the earth, whether they be crosses, crucifixes, virgins, wafers, relics, or even the Pope himself. We are by far too mealy mouthed about these infamous abominations: God abhors them, and so should we. To renounce the glory of spiritual worship for outward pomp and show is the height of folly, and deserves to be treated as such.” (C.H. Spurgeon, The Treasury of David, Psalm 106:20)

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Dec 12, 2018 15:49:26   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
“False gods, attempts to represent the true God, and indeed, all material things which are worshipped, are so much filth upon the face of the earth, whether they be crosses, crucifixes, virgins, wafers, relics, or even the Pope himself. We are by far too mealy mouthed about these infamous abominations: God abhors them, and so should we. To renounce the glory of spiritual worship for outward pomp and show is the height of folly, and deserves to be treated as such.” (C.H. Spurgeon, The Treasury of David, Psalm 106:20)
b “False gods, attempts to represent the true God... (show quote)


Amen and Amen

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Dec 12, 2018 17:42:55   #
Rose42
 
IMO Doc is helping to prove that Mary worship undoubtedly goes against Gods word and is idol worship. I read some of it and its all wordsmithing. It shows the pagan elements of Catholicism.

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Dec 12, 2018 17:48:49   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
IMO Doc is helping to prove that Mary worship undoubtedly goes against Gods word and is idol worship. I read some of it and its all wordsmithing. It shows the pagan elements of Catholicism.


For the amount of posting that Doc110 posts I could see where it would be almost impossible to keep up with the Roman Catholic Churches traditions and beliefs let alone to try and read the scriptures would be almost a full time job. No wonder Radiance3 and Doc110 don't know what is in the bible. You have all of those saints to memorize as to which saint goes with what problem am I driving the car which saint is that am I going fishing which saint is that and on and on it goes I wonder do any of them actually pray to Jesus anymore or is he obsolete in the Roman Catholic Church.

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Dec 12, 2018 17:59:52   #
Rose42
 
bahmer wrote:
For the amount of posting that Doc110 posts I could see where it would be almost impossible to keep up with the Roman Catholic Churches traditions and beliefs let alone to try and read the scriptures would be almost a full time job. No wonder Radiance3 and Doc110 don't know what is in the bible. You have all of those saints to memorize as to which saint goes with what problem am I driving the car which saint is that am I going fishing which saint is that and on and on it goes I wonder do any of them actually pray to Jesus anymore or is he obsolete in the Roman Catholic Church.
For the amount of posting that Doc110 posts I coul... (show quote)


When pope John Paul II was shot he kept crying out to Mary. That reveals his heart. He put her above God. People put pictures of her where he normally sat. The loudspeakers were playing the rosary. The pope gave Mary all the glory for saving his life. The idol worship starts right at the top.

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Dec 12, 2018 21:49:46   #
Doc110 Loc: York PA
 
07/01/2018 The Bible Supports Praying to the Saints and to Mary the First Saint. (Part 1)

Fr. Mitch Pacwa
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-bible-supports-praying-to-the-saints
https://www.catholic.com/profile/fr-mitch-pacwa


Most "Bible-believing" Christians object to the Catholic practice of praying to the saints.

These critics worry that Catholics will go to hell for offending God with a neo-pagan system of worship.

They have four main criticisms of the custom, all of which they push forward vigorously.



Protestant Criticisms and Objections:

1. First, they accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary and the other saints.

This violates the first commandment: "You shall not have any other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3).

Additional proof that Catholics worship the saints is that they make statues of them, in violation of the next commandment:

"You shall not make for yourself an idol or any image which is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters which are under the earth; you shall not bow down and serve them because I am the Lord your God"
(Ex. 20:4-5).

Catholics make statues of the saints whom they worship, thereby committing the double sin of polytheism and idolatry.



2. The second objection to praying to the saints is that, even if Catholics do not worship the saints, they are at least calling upon the spirits of the dead. Scripture explicitly forbids conjuring the dead in many passages:

"Do not turn to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek defilement among them.”
(Lev. 19:31).

"The soul who turns to mediums and to familiar spirits to go whoring after them, I will set my face against that soul and cut him off from the midst of his people"
(Lev. 20:6).

"The man or the woman who becomes a medium or a familiar spirit will surely die; they will cast stones at them; their blood will be on themselves.”
(Lev. 20:27).

"Let there not be found among you one who makes his son or his daughter pass through fire, a diviner of divinations, an occultist, a charmer, an enchanter, one who casts spells, or one who questions mediums or familiar spirits, or one who seeks the dead.”
(Deut. 18:10-11).

Since the saints are all dead, no one is allowed to consult them without breaking these biblical laws.



3. A third objection is that there is only one mediator with the Father, Jesus Christ.

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, a man, Jesus Christ, who has given himself as a ransom for all, the testimony in its own time.”
(1 Tim. 2:5-6).

Jesus Christ is fully satisfactory as the mediator between sinners and God. No one should ever ask the saints for intercession.



4. A fourth objection is that the Bible does not instruct Christians to honor the saints, seek their intercession, or keep their relics.

Without any biblical injunction to perform these things, a Christian risks displeasing God.

The Catholic Church always has taught that a Christian can worship only God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

No creature, no matter how good or beautiful--no angel, no saint, not even the Virgin Mary — deserves adoration.



Catholic Teaching Of generation of the Saints and to Mary:

This is the teaching of the two Catholic creeds .

1. The Apostles’ Creed: "I believe in one God";
2. Nicene Creed: "We believe in one God") and
3. The catechisms (Baltimore Catechism, question 199:
"By the first commandment we are commanded to offer to God alone the
supreme worship that is due him”).
4. And the Church councils;
(Nicaea, in 325; Rome in 382; Toledo in 675; Lateran IV in 1215; Lyons
in 1274; Florence in 1442; Trent from 1545-1563; Vatican I from
1869-1870).



The Catholic Church condemns polytheism and idolatry alike.

Pope Dionysius condemned the division of the one God into three gods, for there can be only one God, not three (Letter to Dionysius of Alexandria, A.D. 260).

Pope Damasus I condemned the worship of other gods, angels, or archangels, even when God gave them the name of "god" in the Bible (Tome of Damasus, approved at the Council of Rome, 382).

John Damascene's Apologetic Sermons Against Those Who Reject Sacred Images 

Gives an authentic presentation of the Catholic attitude towards statues and pictures of Mary and the saints:

"If we were making images of men and thought them gods and adored them as gods, certainly we would be impious.

But we do not do any of these things."



The Baltimore Catechism, question 223,

Confirms this by teaching:

"We do not pray to the crucifix or to the images and relics of the saints, but to the persons they represent."



Catholic doctrine absolutely rejects the worship of anyone but God and rejects all worship of statues, whether of Christ or the saints.

a. What the Church does allow is praying to the saints in order to ask for their intercession with the one true God.

b. The Church also allows one to make statues to remind a person of Christ or the saint:

c. ”Further, the images of Christ, of the Virgin Mother of God, and of the other saints are to be kept with honor in places of worship especially;

And to them due honor and veneration is to be paid —

Not because it is believed that there is any divinity or power intrinsic to them for which they are reverenced, nor because it is from them that something is sought, nor that a blind trust is to be attached to images as it once was by the Gentiles who placed their hope in idols.
(Ps. 135:15ff);

But because the honor which is shown to them is referred to the prototypes which they represent.

"Thus it follows that through these images, which we kiss and before which we kneel and uncover our heads, we are adoring Christ and venerating the saints whose likenesses these images bear.”
(Council of Trent, Session XXV, Decree 2).



This Mirrors the Old Testament Attitude:

Soon after they received the commandment prohibiting the making of images for worship.

The Israelites were told by the Lord to "make two cherubim of beaten gold;

You will make them for the two ends of the covering [of the Ark of the Covenant].”
(Ex. 25:18)

After many Israelites suffered punishment in the form of snakebite, at the Lord's instruction.

"Moses made the bronze serpent and he set it upon a pole, and it happened that if a serpent bit a man, and he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.”
(Num. 21:9).



The gold cherubim and the bronze serpent were not objects of worship.

The cherubim symbolized the presence of God's angels at the Ark of the Covenant, and the bronze serpent was God's means of healing the people of poisonous snakebite.

So too do Catholics make statues to represent the presence of the saints and angels in churches, homes, and elsewhere.



The Bible teaches that the attempt to contact the dead through seances and mediums is a serious sin.

The Catholic Church, being a Bible-believing Church (actually, of course, it's more than that--the Catholic Church is the one and only Bible-writing Church).

Condemns all forms of superstition and conjuring the dead.

The Baltimore Catechism; 

Explains the seriousness of the sin of superstition:

"Superstition is by its nature a mortal sin, but it may be venial either when the matter is slight or when there is a lack of full consent to the act.”
(question 212).

When the Catholic Church encourages devotion and prayer to the saints, in no way does it intend for its members to practice some form of superstition.

Never does the Church instruct the faithful to conjure the spirits of the saints to carry on some two-way communication.

There are no seances that try to make them appear, speak messages, tap tables, or anything of the sort.

The faith of the Church is that the saints are not really dead, but are fully alive in Jesus Christ, who is life itself .
(John 11:25; 14:6)

And the bread of life who bestows life on all who eat his flesh and drink his blood.
(John 6:35, 48, 51, 53-56).

The saints are alive in heaven because of the life they have received through their faith in Christ Jesus and through their eating of his body and blood.


(End Part 1)

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Dec 12, 2018 21:55:37   #
Doc110 Loc: York PA
 
07/01/2018 The Bible Supports Praying to the Saints and to Mary the First Saint. (Part 2)

Fr. Mitch Pacwa
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-bible-supports-praying-to-the-saints
https://www.catholic.com/profile/fr-mitch-pacwa


Most "Bible-believing" Christians object to the Catholic practice of praying to the saints.

These critics worry that Catholics will go to hell for offending God with a neo-pagan system of worship.

They have four main criticisms of the custom, all of which they push forward vigorously.

The book of Revelation shows the saints worshipping God, singing hymns, playing instruments, making requests to Christ to avenge their martyrdom, and offering prayers for the saints on earth.
(Rev. 4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11)

Because they are alive, we believe that we can go to them to intercede for us with God.

We do not need to see apparitions or hear their voices in order to believe they will pray for us in heaven.

We trust that the saints will accept our requests for help and will present them to Christ for us.



The Catholic Church has always believed that Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man.

It is the death and resurrection of Jesus alone by which people are saved.

In 449 Pope Leo the Great wrote his Tome against Eutyches.

Who taught that Jesus Christ had only one nature, not two. (
This was the heresy of monophysitism.)

In the Tome, which the Council of Chalcedon accepted as the authentic Catholic teaching on Christ, he quotes.
1 Timothy 2:5

As the authentic Catholic doctrine:

"Hence, as was suitable for the alleviation of our distress, one and the same mediator between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, was both mortal and immortal under different.aspects."



The fifth session of the Council of Trent (1546)

Laid out the belief in Jesus the one true mediator as the norm of Catholic faith:

"[Original sin cannot be] taken away through the powers of human nature or through a remedy other than the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, (through Baptism removes original Sin.)

Jesus who reconciled us to God in his blood, having become our justice, and sanctification, and redemption."



The schema of the Dogmatic Constitution on the Principal Mysteries of the Faith,

Drafted for the First Vatican Council (1869-1870)

Includes the unique mediation of Jesus Christ as one of these principal mysteries:

"Truly, therefore, Christ Jesus is mediator between God and man, one man dying for all;

He made satisfaction to the divine justice for us, and he erased the handwriting that was against us.

Despoiling principalities and powers, he brought us from our longstanding slavery into the freedom of sons."

These quotations from official Catholic documents give unambiguous proof that the Church believes Jesus Christ and no other is the one mediator between sinful humanity and the righteous God.



How does the Church integrate this essential doctrine of the faith with the belief that we can pray to the saints?

1. First, God expects us to pray for one another.

We see this in both the Old and New Testaments.

In a dream, God commanded King Abimelech to ask Abraham to intercede for him:

"For [Abraham] is a prophet and he will pray for you, so you shall live.”
(Gen. 20:7).

When the Lord is angry with Job's friends because they did not speak rightly about God, he tells them

"Let my servant Job pray for you because I will accept his [prayer], lest I make a terror on you.”
(Job 42:8).



Paul wrote to the Romans:

"I exhort you, brothers, through our Lord Jesus Christ and through the love of the Spirit, to strive with me in prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the disobedient in Judaea and that my ministry may be acceptable to the saints in Jerusalem, so that in the joy coming to you through the will of God I may rest with you.”
(Rom. 15:30-32)

James says:
"Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.

The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.”
(James 5:16-17).

Thus, according to Scripture, God wants us to pray for one another.

This must mean that prayer for one another cannot detract from the role of Jesus Christ as our one mediator with God.



2. Second, The reason that Christians have the power to pray for one another is that each person who is baptized is made a member of the Body of Christ by virtue of the Holy Spirit's action in baptism.
(1 Cor. 12:11-13)

It is because the Christian belongs to Jesus Christ and is a member of his Body, the Church, that we can make effective prayer.

The reason we pray to the saints is that they are still members of the Body of Christ.

Remember, the life which Christ gives is eternal life;


Therefore, every Christian who has died in Christ is forever a member of the Body of Christ.

This is the doctrine which we call the Communion of the Saints.

Everyone in Christ, whether living or dead, belongs to the Body of Christ.

From this it follows that a saint in heaven may intercede for other people because he still is a member of the Body of Christ.

Because of this membership in Christ, under his headship, the intercession of the saints cannot be a rival to Christ's mediation;

It is one with the mediation of Christ, to whom and in whom the saints form one body.




Some Christians — most Protestants.

In fact — deny that the Bible gives support for devotion to the saints, but they are incorrect.

The Bible encourages Christians to approach the saints in heaven, just as they approach God the Father and Jesus Christ the Lord:

"But you have approached Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, and the assembly and church of the firstborn who have been enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all,

And spirits of righteous ones who have been made perfect, and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood which speaks better than that of Abel.”
(Heb. 12:22-24).



It is clear the Christian has approached a number of heavenly beings:

The heavenly Jerusalem, the angels, God the judge, and Jesus the mediator.

"The assembly and church of the firstborn who have been enrolled in heaven.”

And the phrase "spirits of righteous ones who have been made perfect" can refer only to the saints in heaven.



1. First, They are spirits, not flesh and blood.

2. Second, They are righteous people, presumably made righteous by Jesus Christ, "who is our righteousness."

3. Third, They have been made perfect. The only place where spirits of perfected righteous people can dwell is heaven.

4. Fourth, Furthermore, "spirits of righteous ones who have been made perfect"

Is a perfect definition of the saints in heaven.

This passage is saying that, just as Christians approach the angels,

God the judge, Jesus Christ, and his saving blood, so also must we approach the saints in heaven.



Does the Bible say we should approach the saints with our prayers?

Yes, in two places.

1. First, In Revelation 5:8,
John saw the Lamb, Christ Jesus, on a throne in the midst of four beasts and 24 elders.

When the Lamb took the book with the seven seals, the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb in worship, "each one having a harp and golden bowls of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints."

2. Secondly, Similarly, in Revelation 8:3-4 we are told that something similar happened when the Lamb opened the seventh seal of the book:

"Another angel came and stood on the altar, having a golden censer, and many incenses were given to him, in order that he will give it with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne. 

And the smoke of the incenses went up with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God."



These texts give us a way to understand how the saints offer our prayers for us.

Our prayers are like nuggets of incense.

They smell sweet and good.

The 24 elders around the throne, who are saints, and the angels offer these nuggets of incense for us.

They set them on fire before the throne of God.


This is a beautiful image of how the intercession of the saints works.

Because the saints are so close to the fire of God's love and because they stand immediately before him.
They can set our prayers on fire with their love and release the power of our prayers.

(End Part 2)

Reply
Dec 13, 2018 09:30:43   #
Rose42
 
Another excellent example how Satan uses people to pervert and blaspheme God's word! Note the long and drawn out articles when the truth is so simple and clear.

Roman Catholicism is not Christian.

Reply
Dec 13, 2018 10:25:11   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
Another excellent example how Satan uses people to pervert and blaspheme God's word! Note the long and drawn out articles when the truth is so simple and clear.

Roman Catholicism is not Christian.


Amen and Amen

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