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How will tax cuts for the wealthy benefit all Americans ?
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Nov 28, 2016 10:12:56   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
America Only wrote:
I am sure that is the case and I am positive you always say it like it is. BUT I can take you into large shops....shops that have 6,000 employees a shift...and that have 2,900 vendors inside their shops 24/7 and the older "union" members sleep all day long in large electrical control panel cabinets that have nothing mounted inside of them....that union members actually build a "privacy" crate for themselves also to sleep in...that if anyone says anything about it, the unions would strike...union members sit playing cards making other people wait for a job order to be filled....the vendors are all forced to be "union" and get paid NOTHING compared to the in house union members that all make a minimal of 36.00 a hour starting wage...the vendor employees are $9.80 an hour and do exactly the same work as the in house union members..a vendor employee is instructed to mount a electrical wiring box on the outside of a engine in a large metal housing that turns at a station to machine the inside of a t***smission.BUT the vendor employee has to wait for the card game to finish so that the in house union member can open the tooling room and provide the vendor employee with the drill and mounting hardware which he has to wait for HOURS to get...it goes on in so many ways and that is in just one shop....it is like that is many of the larger shops....so please...don't brag up about frigging unions...they served a purpose once...and now destroy more than anything else.


We have almost lost our US Postal Service thanks to Unions....
I am sure that is the case and I am positive you a... (show quote)
A case such as you describe is d********g and not What I experienced. It is different here where I live. I have not been a Union member for 30 years but they gave me my education that I have found to be priceless. You speak of vendor employees making $9.80 per hour and Union employees making $35 per hour. Is our future going to be low wages? People can't live on $9.80 an hour without assistance from the government--tax dollars down the drain. Would mega employers as a whole pay decent wages and give benefits to their workers as a matter of conscience?

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Nov 28, 2016 10:53:46   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
A case such as you describe is d********g and not What I experienced. It is different here where I live. I have not been a Union member for 30 years but they gave me my education that I have found to be priceless. You speak of vendor employees making $9.80 per hour and Union employees making $35 per hour. Is our future going to be low wages? People can't live on $9.80 an hour without assistance from the government--tax dollars down the drain. Would mega employers as a whole pay decent wages and give benefits to their workers as a matter of conscience?
A case such as you describe is d********g and not ... (show quote)


Tom, why would employers pay with their conscience?

AO is correct, the unions ruined the pay scale for everyone. The company I work for; has no incentive to move back work from Mexico anymore than tRump has incentive to move his ties, shirts and suits back to be "made in America". Those sk**ls are few and far between and schools for the most part are only interested in preparing kids for college not for building a America.

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Nov 28, 2016 14:42:15   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Richard94611 wrote:
SuperDave is a wingnut enthusiast. To him, everything on the web is like making sausage. It just gets ground up beyond recognitition in his brain and gets spewed out a mess at the other end.


Apparently that's your way of saying you're unable to refute my post.

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Nov 28, 2016 15:47:28   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
LOL! I wrote a post saying the founders designed our government to protect the rights of the people, not provide for them.

Glaucon, in yet another display of his thorough misunderstanding of everything, replied asking if I think ANYBODY thinks the constitution was meant to provide for our needs.

I replied with this:

Voice of Reason wrote:
Yes, the vast majority of l*****ts believe "promote the general welfare" means there is a constitutional right to collect welfare. I've personally been told that by dozens of l*****ts.


Then Petey replied with:

PeterS wrote:
Well, what better proof than your hearsay correct!


Indicating that he agrees with Glaucon, that nobody really thinks the constitution was meant to provide for our needs.

Then Nicky replied to my original post, saying:

Nickolai wrote:
Providing for the welfare of the general public is a basic goal of government. The preamble to the U.S. Constitution cites promotion of the general welfare as a primary reason for the creation of the Constitution. Promotion of the general welfare is also a stated purpose in state constitutions and statutes. The concept has sparked controversy only as a result of its inclusion in the body of the U.S. Constitution.


Thereby proving my point.

Petey, please explain to Nicky why he's wrong.

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Nov 28, 2016 16:57:26   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
roy wrote:
Maybe loose everthing you got and have to get on foodstamps and see what you say is true,i had a mother in law that worked in nurseing homes all her life,got the min ss there is she raised 11 kids. When she finally quit working ,she quatified for food stamps and wouldnt or didnt want them,we signed her up and got the min. They helped her out for food ,,we and the other kids helped pay off her house.yea there are people that may get around the food stamp program,but if you ever need them theres not that much fraud as you think,its like seeing people park in a handi cap parking you see them park and get out and walk in a store,and you say look at them their not handicaped,it might be a vet that have got hurt in a war,you just never know another person situation.is there fraud,in foodstamps ,yes there is,is there fraud in washington on both sides you anwser that.
Maybe loose everthing you got and have to get on f... (show quote)


Roy,

None of the things I mentioned involve fraud - they're all perfectly legal. Just as it was perfectly legal for your wife and her siblings to force the taxpayers to pay to feed their mother so they didn't have to and could use the money saved to pay off her mortgage.

But you're right, aside from all the legal stuff I mentioned, the EBT system is rife with fraud, as are most government programs. You have to realize that for all government agencies, this year's funding is determined by last year's spending. The more you spend (squander) this year, the more you get next year. The incentive is always to squander as much as possible.

That is why the functions of government should be limited to the minimum possible and charity should never be included.

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Nov 28, 2016 17:02:56   #
roy
 
If you call forceing the taxpayer to help feed an old woman and helping her get 38 dollars a month,in stamps and you think thats wrong something very bad wrong with you,i guess your one of those people in your family has never needed help

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Nov 28, 2016 17:04:34   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
A case such as you describe is d********g and not What I experienced. It is different here where I live. I have not been a Union member for 30 years but they gave me my education that I have found to be priceless. You speak of vendor employees making $9.80 per hour and Union employees making $35 per hour. Is our future going to be low wages? People can't live on $9.80 an hour without assistance from the government--tax dollars down the drain. Would mega employers as a whole pay decent wages and give benefits to their workers as a matter of conscience?
A case such as you describe is d********g and not ... (show quote)


Do you think the vendor employees could make more if the company wasn't paying all those union employees $35/hr to play cards?

Would you pay your best employees more if you could afford to?

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Nov 28, 2016 17:08:41   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
roy wrote:
If you call forceing the taxpayer to help feed an old woman and helping her get 38 dollars a month,in stamps and you think thats wrong something very bad wrong with you,i guess your one of those people in your family has never needed help


The taxpayers weren't 'feeding an old woman', they were saving her children from having to pay to do so.

I also don't believe the $38/mo unless your family is incredibly stupid or greedy. To me, it wouldn't be worth the paperwork for an amount that small.

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Nov 28, 2016 18:24:55   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
roy wrote:
If you call forceing the taxpayer to help feed an old woman and helping her get 38 dollars a month,in stamps and you think thats wrong something very bad wrong with you,i guess your one of those people in your family has never needed help


Why do you have to be forced?

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Nov 28, 2016 18:55:29   #
roy
 
I would hope that someday you will be put in the position that you need help,or your family,like to see what you do will you pay off a mortage where somebody doesnt loose their home,andvwill you help pay for food,will you help pay doctor bills probably not you just walk off and say they should fend for themselves.i know people just like you and most .are sucking money out of the goverment

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Nov 28, 2016 20:36:24   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
Do you think the vendor employees could make more if the company wasn't paying all those union employees $35/hr to play cards?

Would you pay your best employees more if you could afford to?
I have employees and I pay them well and give bonuses when I do well. I learned a long time ago that to keep good people working for you--- you have to make them want to work for you. . Would it be reasonable to assume the incedent described by A O is isolated abuse? The Union people I know here are Longshoremen--Mill workers-- and hospital employees. They all work hard at their jobs and are among the lucky few making enough money to buy new cars own homes and pay for my services. Coos Bay is known as the poverty belt of Oregon. I agree not every employer can pay for Union benefits and not every worker is possessing the sk**ls for a Union job. If I was a big contractor with large commercial jobs in different towns I would go to The Union hall to hire my help instead of taking my chances with a temporary agency or the unemployment office. My reason-- I would be assured I was getting sk**led workers. Back to my statement on low paid workers needing assistance to make a living--Is it reasonable to assume these workers are a burden on the government and our tax dollars pay for it instead of better things such as infrastructure? Elimination of social programs will not change things for the better if wages do not keep up with the neccessities of life. What is a reasonable way to deal with giving a decent wage to the worker with at least health insurance as a benefit and still make a profit for the employer. . Give me something reasonable.

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Nov 28, 2016 20:42:08   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
I have employees and I pay them well and give bonuses when I do well. I learned a long time ago that to keep good people working for you--- you have to make them want to work for you. . Would it be reasonable to assume the incedent described by A O is isolated abuse? The Union people I know here are Longshoremen--Mill workers-- and hospital employees. They all work hard at their jobs and are among the lucky few making enough money to buy new cars own homes and pay for my services. Coos Bay is known as the poverty belt of Oregon. I agree not every employer can pay for Union benefits and not every worker is possessing the sk**ls for a Union job. If I was a big contractor with large commercial jobs in different towns I would go to The Union hall to hire my help instead of taking my chances with a temporary agency or the unemployment office. My reason-- I would be assured I was getting sk**led workers. Back to my statement on low paid workers needing assistance to make a living--Is it reasonable to assume these workers are a burden on the government and our tax dollars pay for it instead of better things such as infrastructure? Elimination of social programs will not change things for the better if wages do not keep up with the neccessities of life. What is a reasonable way to deal with giving a decent wage to the worker with at least health insurance as a benefit and still make a profit for the employer. . Give me something reasonable.
I have employees and I pay them well and give bonu... (show quote)

You assume Union workers are somehow better than non workers. Perhaps they are there.

But not everywhere. Public service union workers are about as close to pathetic as any group I've ever seen as a group.

I like hiring veterans, when all else equals out. I know what being in the service teaches a person.

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Nov 28, 2016 20:51:03   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
Dummy Boy wrote:
Tom, why would employers pay with their conscience?

AO is correct, the unions ruined the pay scale for everyone. The company I work for; has no incentive to move back work from Mexico anymore than tRump has incentive to move his ties, shirts and suits back to be "made in America". Those sk**ls are few and far between and schools for the most part are only interested in preparing kids for college not for building a America.
I can go along with that. Trade schools need to make a comeback and incentives need to be given to employers to keep their jobs here.. Greed is not good but neither is poverty. It seems to me we have far to much poverty and we are developing a caste system. The rich really are getting richer and the poor have children.

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Nov 28, 2016 21:06:06   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
Super Dave wrote:
You assume Union workers are somehow better than non workers. Perhaps they are there.

But not everywhere. Public service union workers are about as close to pathetic as any group I've ever seen as a group.

I like hiring veterans, when all else equals out. I know what being in the service teaches a person.
Military experience teaches a person to think and see the job do the job. Veterans for the most part do not have their heads up their asses. I know all about the sign twisters clipboard holders and shovel leaners that make up city and state road crews.. I am talking about sk**led Carpenters plumbers electricians and other tradesmen who have had the benefit of Union sponsored apprenticeship that the average worker has not had. I have had people who claim to be carpenters who do not know how to read a tape measure or a blueprint. They can't be trusted to cut stairs or rafters and are a waste of money to me. I prefer the trained as I cannot afford to pay good money to people who put me in the position of having to take their work apart and do it over. My crew is small and as far as contractors go I am small time. I am present on every job and I have to be. I bid jobs to make money and If I am not there I know for Damn sure I am not making money..

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Nov 28, 2016 21:46:11   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
Military experience teaches a person to think and see the job do the job. Veterans for the most part do not have their heads up their asses. I know all about the sign twisters clipboard holders and shovel leaners that make up city and state road crews.. I am talking about sk**led Carpenters plumbers electricians and other tradesmen who have had the benefit of Union sponsored apprenticeship that the average worker has not had. I have had people who claim to be carpenters who do not know how to read a tape measure or a blueprint. They can't be trusted to cut stairs or rafters and are a waste of money to me. I prefer the trained as I cannot afford to pay good money to people who put me in the position of having to take their work apart and do it over. My crew is small and as far as contractors go I am small time. I am present on every job and I have to be. I bid jobs to make money and If I am not there I know for Damn sure I am not making money..
Military experience teaches a person to think and ... (show quote)
I'm not bashing union workers. My father was one.

I'm bashing the unions. They are corrupt MN Just like the Democrats that they partner with.

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