rumitoid

I was watching an "old" movie (1985) with Harrison Ford as a Philly detective called "Witness." He is forced to hide with the Amish and his "Witness," a young Amish boy. The scene that is significant to me is when Ford goes to down in a mini-caravan of two horse-drawn vehicle. A group of young people, locals, start harassing them. The older Amish guy at the reins of Ford's vehicle tells him to do nothing, it is not their way. Ford say, "It is not my way," and gets out, discouraging the group with a short spurt of violence.
I am of two minds about this scene and have been well before this movie was relased. There was a similar movie with Gary Cooper. He, too, forsook his pascifist ways to avenge his son k**led by maurauding Confederates. In both instances I was both gladden and saddened by thier actions.

I came back from overseas in '68 on emergency leave: my mother was having a serious operation. 30 days and I then reported to Fort Toten. A staff sergeant assigned me to KP the next morning; a Top Kick came up to me privately and said I could stay home and take care of my mother. Weird stuff like this--to me, grace of God stuff--happened to me on more than several occassions during my service, like my assignment in Viet Nam.

Looking for work that first week after Toten, just having finished a hot dog and holding an empty glass soda bottle, I came upon an anti-war march down by Greenich Village. A police officer said, "Drop the bottle!" I looked around for someone in the crowd with a molotov cocktail, but he was talking to me. He had his hand on his gun. I pointed to myself. "Put down the f***in' bottle," he repeated. My concern was if I put the bottle down he would arrest me or ticket me for littering. After one protest about this possibility, I duly put the bottle down and nothing happen.

Continuing on my way to the next interview, a bearded and rather sruffy indivdual said he had admired my courage and calm and perhaps I might be intereted in being a "marshall" for these marches. Then he gave me an address of a Quaker House on 23rd Street. I went there ready for the good fight: I'd tell them a thing or two about pacificism. And something happened. No sooner did I enter that building, my whole attitude changed. An incredible peace took hold of me. I was "Yes, ma'ma" and "yes, sir" until I completed their program. I did not know what was wrong with me.

My first march as a marshall was where I found my ground. Both sides h**ed me. And the law h**ed me. I was utterly alone, and I got why: there was no fight for a marshall. I had, by definition, no side to take--and that was completely repugnent to all involved. I got insults and threats from every direction and I saw, or so it seemed, that resolution was not the point. This was not about fixing anything. Shame, fear, anger, and hurt expressed was the only important point. Souls desperately needing to be heard, shouting, insulting, and name calling out of this need. Same is true here.

UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA

Yeah, its like a relief valve or something. Who knows, maybe it's stopped someone from taking regretful action because they could write about it here?

rumitoid

Good point and I have considered that. Given the extremes of anger some post, OPP may be saving lives.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Maybe. I would like to think so, because some posts/posters suggest violent, if not criminal behavior. A way of releasing anger or tension is not a bad thing.

Lets hope it is all released online. Reason needs to prevail.
Anger/violence usually begets anger/violence.

As others have said, how can we expect our legislators to work together, in a civil manner, if we can't...ourselves?
Rumitoid sets the standard for civil discourse, as well as anyone. :thumbup: :mrgreen:

rumitoid

Thank you, slatten49, I appreciate your kind words, as always, but how do you feel about pacifism?

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

This is probably why I don't see eye to eye with you at times. I was an easy going passive person most of my life, and an abused child (not sexually thank God, but hands and fists) Of course I was walked on a lot, taken for granted a lot, but continued about my life the way I was. That was until as a young adult, I lost a child, lost a marriage who was the one love of my life, due to his affair at that same time. The child was a SIDS baby at 3mo.14da., born on his daddies birthday and named after him. During that time I pretty much lost my sanity as well. I've never done illegal drugs, have never been a drinker, and have always carried life soley upon my bare shoulders. Since I've always chosen to deal with life soberly, but being a niave, easy going, passive person got to where it didn't work. The change was very difficult, and I really had to push myself as I had two more depending on me. Learning how to stand up and fight for myself, I do; and feel it's right, and that who I am as well as what I have is worth it as well. I do not believe you have to go overseas to fight a war. Sometimes an individual is faced with fighting one right at home, or within themselves, and for survival as well. The out come of any war is always different for the Individual.
With Respect.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

I admire it in others, and strive to improve, myself. I fear that I am not quite, yet, capable of turning the other cheek. I, quite frankly, am on OPP, partly, to deal with my own anger issues, and volatility.

Being able to contemplate a response...taking my time, is an important asset, for me, of the OPP. I can contain my anger, edit my initial thoughts, if necessary, or void an angry post of mine...all before I hit the "send" function. Until I hit that button, I try to use reason, instead of emotion, as much as possible.

Face to face confrontations do not always allow me to contain any anger or frustrations I might be experiencing. I am not as nice, sometimes, in person, as I may appear on these threads (or not). As a grandfather, I do not like myself when I get angry. My Family deserves a "kinder, gentler" me.

Only you, Rumi, could have gotten this post out of me. I will see if I can forgive you. :roll: :wink: :lol:

rumitoid

rhomin, thank you for that very revealing and honest look at your life. I was severely abused, physically, as a child. At that time, this was acceptable. Parents ruled. I was quite naive for a long time, and painfully shy. I loved books and lived there most of my life. The service did not change me much, but my overseas assignment did. I was a useless drunk for about 15 years, although very active in harm done to those close and far.

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

Wow, I guess there is some same stuff about us, but also opposite. I have a very calm nature about me still, I love to make others laugh, smile, and just feel good about themselves, but then there is the other side.
I think the anger has always been there from my childhood, but until I had to finally start taking a stand and laying down boundaries in my adult life, only then was I able to tap into some of that anger. There is no roaring outburst at people, or anything like that, but with Faith and lots of prayer and learning my own discipline I've been able to say my piece directly, straight forward, and bluntly if needed to those out there who need to back off some. And they do without further commotion. The only one who can press those deeply rooted buttons is my dad of course, and I stay away from him.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

I try to use humor every where I go. I have found humor not only helps calm my savage beast, it often defuses tense situations involving others. I've been criticized for using humor during crisis situations but afterward I can show them how their mind was taken off the situation just long enough to " take a breath ". I meet violence with humor whenever I can. It doesn't apply to everything though. Like this " I thought pacifist was a person who insisted on using pacifiers on crying babies ".

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

:thumbup: That explains a lot! :wink: Very interesting approach, but effective, I'm sure. I kinda do a little of that myself. Oftentimes, self-deprecating humor works well with people who are happy to see someone else as the butt of their own joke! :wink:

Your Corpman background reminds me of the humor from
M*A*S*H*. I would assume that background has a lot to do with your irreverent humor. 8-)

rumitoid

I feel enormously privileged by those few who chose to respond to this thread thus far: thank you. You guys are great, in all sincerity. Hones and open about yourselves: beautiful. Awed and really grateful.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

My father was a Baptist irreverend but I'm not. I do make fun of church stuff too. I try not to make gay people the butt of any jokes. I once almost got k**led by asking some Army rangers if they were rump rangers. Tip - don't make fun of rangers.

Ghost Loc: The 1st state to ever secede

Contrary to most who have posted here thus far I have learned a little aggression can get you far in life but like anything else in this world moderation is key.

Pacifism is great if everyone else was as cool and collected as the pacifists and it works well in a perfect world. In reality we do not live in a perfect world and a lot of people are scum only because society allows them to be. I feel strongly that those who sought to tear down others just because they can then maybe they need to be torn down until they are nothing just so they can get a taste of their own medicine.

I'm not saying everyone should adopt this way of thinking only for a select few who aren't going to stand by and let vermin run down good and decent people. Someone has to stick up for the good people even if you think it is stooping down to a low level. Sometimes there must be that one person who must stand to do the hard thing even though others think it is wrong.

Conformity be damned. Why should I conform when my contemporaries won't conform to anything only to push their ideas upon others? Diversity is a lie. Those preaching diversity don't want to be diverse themselves but to divide those they want to destroy.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

Some went to college some to diversity, same difference to me. Some swim in the atlantic ocean, some in the pacifist ocean, it's all water.