lone_ghost Loc: Wisconsin

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/070213-662297-obamacare-gives-young-more-reasons-not-to-buy-coverage.htm


If the penalty is so much less expensive than the insurance costs, why would anyone in their right mind do anything else?

ldsuttonjr Loc: ShangriLa

Lone ghost - it looks pretty simple to me that the game plan all along was to move to a single pay government plan - total government healthcare!

mmccarty12 Loc: Zionsville, Indiana

Unfortunately, continuing to point out the flaws in Obamacare will not influence those who wait with baited breath for every word the man speaks, regardless how it is or is going to affect them. The flaws are pointed out everyday, and more and more Americans want Obamacare defunded and made to go away, but the politicians, especially Obama, care not one whit about the desires of the American public. If Obamacare is defunded or eventually made to go away, politicians, all of them, lose power because they will begin to understand that the American people know the game they are playing and are no longer willing to be pawns in it any more. The kings will be dethroned, and they do not like that thought.

lone_ghost Loc: Wisconsin

Yes, they want every one on government health care but the sustainability of Obamacare requires the money young healthy people put into it. It will take about a nanosecond for these young people to weigh their options and chose to pay the penalty rather than purchase insurance through the exchanges.
It does not take a tremendous amount of common sense to see that the foundation of Obamacare is crumbling before it is even implemented.

lone_ghost Loc: Wisconsin

I agree with you but my jar head mentality will not allow me to give up.

mmccarty12 Loc: Zionsville, Indiana

One thing I found out recently about the Obamacare mandate is that a person is required to purchase an insurance policy and that insurance policy will be tax. I have heard, not verified, that the 'Cadillac' plans will be taxed at 45%. After hearing this, if it is true, it is no wonder the Democrats are so hell bent on keeping Obamacare in place. If it is not, I guess I cannot really say much.

The thought that scares the crap out of me is what happens when my company decides to no longer provide and pay for my health insurance. I have the perk at my company where they pay 100% of my health insurance costs. It is one of the major reasons that I continue to stay here over trying to find a better paying job, since I was required to take a 20% pay cut.

I have Cong*****l Congestive Heart Failure. My company, last time they told us about it, pays out $9800 a month in insurance premiums for 7 people. That is $1400 a month person average in premiums. Now considering my pre-existing condition, can you image what my premium will be if I am required to go out on my own and get insurance. As I make over the subsidy limit, $1400 is just under, and I mean just under, 1/2 of my net pay. It is just under 1/3 of my gross pay.

Granted, this all assumes that the monies paid out by the company for our insurance will not be coming to us to go toward our insurance premiums. But then again, if our current health care provider did not accept one of us, the company does not pay anything to the rejected employee to alleviate the cost of going outside of our carrier and buying insurance. I asked about that.

UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA

I'm curious, you said you have Cong*****l Congestive Heart Failure. What would you have done for insurance without Obamacare had your job been lost or your company decided to drop it as a benefit? I believe you would have been prevented by the free market system from getting a policy. If you are in a state that requires nonprofit (BCBS) to offer it to the uninsurable, they probably had a plan for $1400/mo but no limit on out of pocket expenses. Did you ever think how Obamacare now makes it a law that you can't be discriminated against due to your health condition? The way it is written, you get the same rate as everyone else, probably closer to $3-400/mo and there's a limit to how much out of pocket you get stuck with.

UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA

It's smart to have the peace of mind that if you're ever hospitalized (like a car accident), the insurance will prevent the hospital from garnishing wages and taking any possessions owned. If you have no job or possessions it is still smart due to the hospital's legal authority for payment as long as you live. Sure, some will gamble that they will never be in the 6% from the age group that are hospitalized. But the consequence of being wrong is financial ruin. There would be no chance of the American Dream. Even if your family is so wealthy that you're actually self-insured. It's still a bad financial gamble because the insurance premiums and out of pocket expenses are a tax deduction. Even if you are from a wealthy family and can self-insure, the tax deductions to offset your capital gains is a smart choice too. Insurers can negotiate prices in contracts; it's incredible what hospitals charge without it.

mmccarty12 Loc: Zionsville, Indiana

You seem to have only glossed over my post. I do have CHF, being diagnosed with it in May of 2005. I have had to have a pacemaker/defibrillator put in to regulate my heart.

As for Obamacare, it is not in effect right now, therefore I cannot get an estimate on what an Obamacare policy would cost me so I will not speculate. But from what I have seen, that equal spread of the cost of the policies, from postings here and elsewhere of the cost increases and reductions of benefits and increases in out-of-pocket expenses, I can only imagine what I will be forced to pay.

If that were the case, my company would not be paying for my insurance because the insurance company, even given the pre-existing condition, granted me a policy with the rest of the employees. They did not have to do that, but I almost guarantee that my portion of the insurance premium paid by my company each month is significantly higher that that paid for by the healthier employees. I started with this company about one year after my diagnosis.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. As it stands, my company pays for my plan and unless that changes, it is forced to change due to Obamacare, I am not concerned. I am more concerned about what I will be forced to pay for insurance with my pre-existing condition, especially considering that I am a candidate for a heart t***splant. I am not on the list right now, but my doctors guarantee I will be on it in the near future.

I may not be able to be discriminated against, but it can become such a financial burden to pay a monthly premium and have the out-of-pocket expenses that my current lifestyle will be severely affected. Not only that, but Obamacare gives a bureaucrat the right to decide what my healthcare can be and takes away my privacy with regard to my health. Do not even try to call me a liar about those two statements as they are completely true.

How can you even speculate on what I will be forced to pay. I am a severely high-risk insurance investment, I go into a different pool than everyone else, or have you not read the bill. The higher risk you are the higher will be your premiums. Buy into the Kool-Aid of what they are telling you, I do not.

If Obamacare is so great, why are so many exemptions being made for some many special interest groups? The people who are supposed to manage the system do not even want any part of it. The people in Congress make 4 times as much as I do and they will be subsidized and I will not. How can it be that great if they will be taking my money to pay for their insurance when I do not get to keep my money to subsidize my own costs for this mandated insurance.

Again, drink the Kool-Aid if you wish, I would rather trust in the private sector over the government to manage my health care any day.

UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA

I wish you the best of luck with your condition but please rest assured that the ACA was written specifically for situations like yours. The government made a law that private insurance must follow. Had the private industry set their own standards, a law would not have been needed. Best of luck with your t***splant and you have more important matters to worry about than the hype of Obamacare, positive or negative. Thank you for replying to my post and it was written very well.

mmccarty12 Loc: Zionsville, Indiana

I thank you for your wishes of well being. I will disagree that the ACA was written and enacted just for situations like mine. The ACA does nothing more than require people to give money to both the Federal government, in the form of the new taxes imposed upon the insurance premiums, and into the pockets of the insurance companies themselves.

It has never been about what is right because too many special interest groups are exempt. If it was truly an all-encompassing bill, NO ONE would be exempt for any reason.

It has never been about what is best for Americans as Americans are the ones paying for it by force. If you do not abide by the mandate you are punished. If you abide by the mandate, you are punished because you have to pay taxes on your premiums.

Insurance is a hedge against illness. It is just like any game of chance out there be it poker, slots or horse racing. There is a chance you will win, more is paid out for/to you than you have put in, and there is a chance that you will lose, you never have to use it so the money is 'wasted', figuratively not literally.

If the government were really concerned, insurance companies would be outlawed, medical costs would be lowered and private interests would gain nothing. Now, both private interests and the government benefit.

I was talking with two other veteran's today about our treatment at our local VAMS. We have issues with it, but we find it better than the privatized system in existence because the issues we have with it today exist outside the VAMS. We veterans just have the privilege, earned, to not have to pay full cost for most of our treatment if we utilize the VAMS. Obamacare will just exponentiate the existing problems and we fear how much our current services will decline because of Obamacare. It is already happening in the private medical arena and Obamacare is not yet in full swing.

UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA

There are t***hs in your post but some are incomplete. The only way insurance lobby would not fight Pelosi and Obama and guarantee their careers were over is if the law made everyone buy a plan. But their point was not just a threat, it was economical. Their business model fails if they can't exclude the sick and injured (pre-existing condition) and drop payment of bills (annual and lifetime limits) unless more pay in or those in pay more.

The following post hit home: "If the government were really concerned, insurance companies would be outlawed, medical costs would be lowered and private interests would gain nothing. Now, both private interests and the government benefit. "

That's exactly my past position but in retrospect, there's no chance anyone would let the government outlaw any business in the USA. Its deplorable hearing and reading about how people have insurance and when they got sick, insurance dropped them. On top of it, the judicial system agreed that it was legal and didn't even give them their money back for what they'd paid in over many years. Given the complexity of all interests, Obamacare at least makes it fairer if not better for the minority but will make it more expensive for most on a monthly premium view but less expensive for most on an annual out of pocket view. Hurry up and wait to see how things look early next year.

UncleJesse Loc: Hazzard Co, GA

I reckon that used to be the definition of it. It is now: The accepted payment method for health care if you don't want financial ruin from injury or illness.

mmccarty12 Loc: Zionsville, Indiana

I hurried up and waited way too much as a sailor. I am a civilian now, I refuse to hurry up and wait.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

People are of little faith. If they have an iron clad guaranty abut something different they hesitate. I am not quick to make changes ether. But am fully aware that the cost of health care is out of hand & I will adjust to what ever is needed of me. I think it may even make things better.