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Sep 11, 2013 15:30:49   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
What caused the crash? Poor regulation of the banking industry and the lack of consumer demand as people were too poor to buy what rich people made. What got us out of the crash-government spending-at first CCC, WPA in Roosevelts first term, which was helping, but was turned off when his party lost the midterms. Government spending for WW2 got us out of the depression-spending on military, and then on consumer goods after the war. Banking regulation, social security, unemployment, rural electification, GI bill, all the programs that helped the middle class and narrowed the gap between the richest and poorest Americans.

Somehow, I get the impression that republicans have a problem learning from history. The only answer, to any question is "Cut taxes for the wealthy and it will trickle down" which has NOT WORKED, but they belive in it like the body and blood of Jesus Christ and want to apply it over and over and somehow get different results, which is the definition of insanity.
What caused the crash? Poor regulation of the bank... (show quote)


Anne Maria - are you at all aware of some of the more recent and exhaustive studies regarding the causes of the depression itself, as well as the extended time before we came out of it, to be almost the opposite of what you report. In other words, some would consider your opinion of that to be old and obsolete thinking.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:39:34   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
OMG, where to start...If Fox were not there, some stories would not be reported.

OK, Faux natters on B******i like it is another 9/11, the only story that matters, but under Bush there were 13 embassy attacks in which 100 people were k**led under President Bush, and they said absolutely NOTHING about it. A news source reports B******i as well as the 13 previous attacks-no favoritism, they should be in FACT business. When a so called "news" source only reports B******i, they have proved themselves to be a propaganda source posing as a news source. Proof below

http://www.policymic.com/articles/40811/13-b******is-happened-under-president-bush-and-fox-news-said-nothing
OMG, where to start...If Fox were not there, some ... (show quote)


It doesn't take much to convince you of your own convictions. B******i is a legitmate story for several reasons, not the least of which is major administration officials clearly and purposefully misleading the American public about it. If you were honest with yourself you'd admit that the same thing from a Bush would have you going nuts.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:41:07   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
Amen, my brother, and thank you for your service


Buffet and Gates and Pritzker and Lewis and Soros and many other billionaires from the left have the gold - so guess they too rule.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:47:09   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
Would you be happy if a union boss met a candidate in an alley, handed them unlimited cash and told them how to v**e on an issue? Say raising minimum wage. They would keep it secret, and the union boss would act suprised when it happened, as it could not be traced to his donation. Would you call that a bribe? Say it had no place in decent society? It is legal today under CU. It allows UNLIMITED and SECRET cash. If a company say, Star Kist, wanted to stop having to have dolphin excluders on its nets, it could give unlimited secret cash to a candidate who would secretly promise to gut the fishing laws. Star Kist would know that making that donation publically would cause a bad backlash from consumers, maybe even a boycott. So, under CU, it could make that secret donation, reap the benefit of the law, but have its spokespeople give grand speechs on how SK belives in how important dolphins are and how we need to save them. Unlimited and Secret? Is this what we want government to be? No mater what side you are on, you can see people on the other side using Citizens United to undermine what the majority want, and doing it in secret. CU legalizes bribery. No matter what side you are on, you can see the need for t***sparancy in government and the benefit of taking money out of politics. I thing gerrymandered districts and CU are creating politicians that no longer have to answer to the e*****rate, and can just do the bidding of their donors.
Would you be happy if a union boss met a candidate... (show quote)


C'mon, certainly you know the Citizens United has nothing to do with direct contributions to candidates - and even more so, you know that folks who want to make contributions to organizations covered under it do so for such organizations supporting candidates from both parties. You aren't really as naive as this post suggests.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:49:11   #
AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi
 
Dave wrote:
Let's take it one step at a time. Those who are rich and lean politically the way you do are just generous people, while those who are not rich and lean different than you are just dumb. Interesting thought process behind that. Now, as to Gates and Buffett - you do know, I'm sure, that they have armies of experts minimizing both their corporate and personal tax liabilities. Buffett's entire company is organized in a fashion to minimize taxes while maximizing cash usage for aggressive asset purchases. Why does their generosity not preclude such aggressive tax avoidance tactics?

As to Fox, and studies that show their viewers to be the less informed than those who see or hear no news - common sense alone, unbiased, would lead one to seriously question the validity of such a study. Certainly you are aware that studies are conducted by people, like yourself, who have thier own biases and find data to support preconcieved notions.

I am a Fox viewer, as well as an ABC, NBC and CBS viewer. Clearly Fox is more likely to report things from a more conservative point of view than the other 3 networks, but as to fact reporting - I've found them to be easily the equal of those. There is no comporable Fox scandal to the Dan Rather fiasco, or the NBC 9/11 editing, or the selective use of photo's by ABC that I've seen.

When one suggests the answer to all economic problems is to v**e Democratic, as you have, that hardly qualifies you as an unbiased observer.
Let's take it one step at a time. Those who are r... (show quote)


I said v****g Democratic is the best response to the slow the widening gap between rich and poor, and it is. Every program that would slow that widening has been removed from the Republican platform. I did not say it was the answer to all our economic problems, but the Republicans have offered NO solutions to the problem of the widening wealth gap, only programs that would make it worse. If you think they have programs that would do that, I would love to hear about it. All I ever hear is cut the safety net, cut social security and make medicare a voucher (make people poorer) block the increases to the minimum wage and bust unions (keep people poorer) and cut taxes for the rich (make rich people richer) and do away with estate taxes (keep rich people rich). If there is something I have not heard of that that would change our Gini score, and compress wage ine******y instead of widening, I would love to hear it.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:50:50   #
AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi
 
Dave wrote:
C'mon, certainly you know the Citizens United has nothing to do with direct contributions to candidates - and even more so, you know that folks who want to make contributions to organizations covered under it do so for such organizations supporting candidates from both parties. You aren't really as naive as this post suggests.


The users of CU have been on both sides of the aisle, but are higher amoung conservative groups.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/05/citizens-united-decision-profoundly-affects-political-landscape.html

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Sep 11, 2013 15:52:09   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
Hmm! I wonder how we got into debt??? Reagan. Cut taxes and tax reciepts will go up. Opps..cut taxes and revenue goes down..what a suprise. Paid off by Clinton. Bush? Cut taxes and revenue will go up...No, really, this time it will. Opps..again..Obama trying to pay it off, with Republicans blocking tax increases for the rich, which 90% Americans think should happen. Save me the crocodile tears about the deficit and do something about it.. Like tax the 1% who made out just fine in this recovery.
Hmm! I wonder how we got into debt??? Reagan. C... (show quote)


I'm guessing you are unaware that income to the federal government during Reagan's 8 years almost trebled.

I'm guessing you have no problem with many people - maybe even most people - having little to no skin in the game by having little or no taxes. I'm guessing you have no problem with the concept of dictatorship of the majority over the minority (but only for taxing and fiscal purposes)

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Sep 11, 2013 15:53:59   #
AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi
 
Dave wrote:
Buffet and Gates and Pritzker and Lewis and Soros and many other billionaires from the left have the gold - so guess they too rule.


Yes, but when we speak of rich v****g against their own economic self-interest, ie Democratic, v****g to raise their own taxes, I think that is exactly an example of the orignal Golden Rule-the do unto others as you would have done unto you rule.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:57:05   #
lone_ghost Loc: Wisconsin
 
Good post and you would also have to acknowledge the huge percentage of the richest people who are liberal democrats.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:57:19   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
Give a corporation a bailout and they will v**e republican for life


Do you really think that all corporations are run by Republicans? Are you really that naive. I once worked for a company that was acquired by a Fortune 100 company. As a member of management I was invited to contribute to their PAC. When I discovered that that PAC gave just over 80% of their contributions to liberal Democrats I dropped out.

Large corporations love large government. GE, for example, loves government funding thier "green" initiatives with grants and forgiveable loans. They also love regulations that make it very difficult for smaller competitors to enter or grow in markets GE serves. I suspect you do not fully understand crony capitalism in all its forms. While there are establishment Republicans that are very much part of the problem, all of those that would expand government, particularly at the federal level, are benefactors to large corporations.

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Sep 11, 2013 15:59:54   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
Sorry, plenty CAN be secret. PACs can be set up NOT to disclose their donors.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/05/citizens-united-decision-profoundly-affects-political-landscape.html


You did read the beginning statement that says corporations and unions both benefit, did you not? Further, you do understand that corporations are often major lobbyists for government growth, don't you. For example, Pepsi was one of the major lobbyists for expansion of food stamps. Surely you can understand why they might do that.

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Sep 11, 2013 16:00:03   #
AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi
 
Dave wrote:
I'm guessing you are unaware that income to the federal government during Reagan's 8 years almost trebled.

I'm guessing you have no problem with many people - maybe even most people - having little to no skin in the game by having little or no taxes. I'm guessing you have no problem with the concept of dictatorship of the majority over the minority (but only for taxing and fiscal purposes)


Sorry, untrue. Total revenue under Reagan almost doubled, as they have EVERY decade since the great depression. Here are the Facts-

http://www.econdataus.com/taxcuts.html

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Sep 11, 2013 16:03:47   #
bluejacket
 
The C*****r wrote:
How to sum up the Democratic party in seventy five words?

“If you are taught bitterness and anger, then you will believe you are a victim. You will feel aggrieved and the twin brother of aggrievment is entitlement.

So now you think you are owed something and you don't have to work for it and now you're on a really bad road to nowhere because there are people who will play to that sense of victimhood, aggreivement and entitlement, and you still won't have a job.”

Condaleeza Rice
How to sum up the Democratic party in seventy five... (show quote)


if you hold that to be true of the poor and minorities then you are part of the problem

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Sep 11, 2013 16:06:28   #
AnnMarie Loc: Madison, Wi
 
AnnMarie wrote:
Sorry, untrue. Total revenue under Reagan almost doubled, as they have EVERY decade since the great depression. Here are the Facts-

http://www.econdataus.com/taxcuts.html


As to no skin in the game-if someone makes too little to pay federal income taxes, but they pay social security, sales tax, etc, they have skin in the game.

What do you think about most Fortune 500 companies that don't pay any income taxes? Or, like GE, get MONEY back from the bailout and do not pay taxes? Should they have a little skin in the game? They sell stuff to the government, lobby to have the goverment buy more stuff from them, give them more favorable tax benefits, should they not have some skin in the game? They are getting representation (lobbyists) without taxation. When the pirates attacked that ship off Africa, Obama sent in Navy to shoot the pirates and rescue the ship, although the parent company has not paid any US taxes for the last few years. They got the benefit of taxpayer money without any skin in the game. Where is the outrage over those companies?

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Sep 11, 2013 16:11:52   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
AnnMarie wrote:
I said v****g Democratic is the best response to the slow the widening gap between rich and poor, and it is. Every program that would slow that widening has been removed from the Republican platform. I did not say it was the answer to all our economic problems, but the Republicans have offered NO solutions to the problem of the widening wealth gap, only programs that would make it worse. If you think they have programs that would do that, I would love to hear about it. All I ever hear is cut the safety net, cut social security and make medicare a voucher (make people poorer) block the increases to the minimum wage and bust unions (keep people poorer) and cut taxes for the rich (make rich people richer) and do away with estate taxes (keep rich people rich). If there is something I have not heard of that that would change our Gini score, and compress wage ine******y instead of widening, I would love to hear it.
I said v****g Democratic is the best response to t... (show quote)


If you are concerned about the widening gap of incomes don't you think you need to focus on the cause before looking for solutions. Let's look at one element, urban ghettos. Virtually every major city in this country runs a public school that fails to graduate 40-50% of the students, and many of those that do graduate are functionally illiterate. Do you think that level of education might doom one to being on the bottom of the economic ladder? This problem has been multi-generational and is most pronounced in those areas most dominated by liberal Democratic machines. The solution offered is the same solution that has been tried and failed consistently - give more money to teachers and administrators completly in absence of any proof it works. While but initially a modest potential, vouchers have been suggested and completely opposed by Democrats.

It would seem your suggestion, and the one implied by liberal policy, that the income ine******y can only be minimized by taking from those that produce the most in the economy and making those at the bottom more successful wards of the state. If only that ever worked anywhere anytime.

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