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"Death Panel" myth: the Eternal Whopper
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Sep 7, 2013 11:20:16   #
rumitoid
 
There are a number of lies about Obama that get stated here and are repeated over and over again as if they are well-known and proven facts. Not that the people here are lying; they are simply and unknowingly passing along lies from others on the Right. These lies are so entrenched that any attempt to dispel them through fact-checkers or other sources brings immediate and often heated responses not just defending the lies but attacking the messenger. It is an understandable response. In attempting to debunk one of these Lies, such as the Death Panel myth, the commonly accepted nature of it as t***h plus being first heard and then repeated by people that are trusted and share the same ideology makes the debunking an assault on friends, family, and party...and one's own integrity. The person that would dare do such a thing must be...well you know all the insults and names.

Ginnyt nailed it with this line in one of her responses (Page 16 in the thread “The differences between Democrats and Republicans, by Ve'hoe.):
“The situation is exasperated when we find others who share similar biases. If the situation is left unchallenged for a prolonged time, our biases no longer appear in our mind as a collective notion or random facts that are tainted with half-t***hs and sometimes outright lies laced with enough historical t***h to make it plausible, but become crystallized and are then viewed as undeniable t***hs.”

Death Panels have become for many one of those “undeniable t***hs.” It is lie that was first uttered by Sarah Palin and immediately repeated by O' Reilly, Hannity, and Limbugh shortly there after and then by most every Republican thereafter. But here on the facts.

"Palin specified that she was referring to Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 which would have paid physicians for providing voluntary counseling to Medicare patients about living wills, advance directives, and end-of-life care options.

"Legislation providing for counseling patients on advance directives, living wills and end-of-life care had been on the books for years, however, the laws did not provide for physicians to be reimbursed for giving such counseling during routine physical exams of the elderly. The Patient Self-Determination Act (1991) requires health care providers, including hospitals, hospices and nursing homes to provide information about advance directives to admitted patients.[29][30] The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act began providing reimbursements for end-of-life care discussions with terminally ill patients in 2003.[31]

"A bill to provide for reimbursement every five years for office visit discussions with Medicare patients on advance directives, living wills, and other end of life care issues was proposed by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) in April 2009—with Republican cosponsors Charles Boustany (R-LA), a cardiovascular surgeon, Patrick Tiberi (R-OH), and Geoff Davis (R-KY).[32][33][34] The counseling was to be voluntary and could be reimbursed more often if a grave illness occurred. The legislation had been encouraged by Gundersen Lutheran and a loose coalition of other hospitals in La Crosse, Wisconsin that had had positive experiences with the widespread use of advance directives.[32][33][35][36] Blumenauer's standalone bill was tabled and inserted into the large health care reform bill, HR 3200 as Section 1233 shortly afterward.[32][37][38] Supporters of the Section 1233 counseling provision included the American Medical Association (AMA), AARP, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, and Consumers Union; the National Right to Life Committee opposed "the provision as written."[39] It was removed from the Senate version of the bill due to the death panel controversy[40] and was not included in the reconciled and final bill which became law in March 2010 and which is known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.[13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel

"The myth is also likely to persist because the law calls for the establishment of a 15 person committee– the independent payment advisory board (or IPAB)–which is given the job of recommending cost-saving measures to the Secretary of Health and Human Services if Medicare expenses rise too quickly. The IPAB will consist of independent healthcare experts who are forbidden, by law, from proposing changes that will affect Medicare coverage or quality. In other words, they are a far cry from a death panel, with the ACA specifically noting that this group is not allowed to do anything that would “ration” healthcare. The law also makes sure that the IPAB is not in a position to make policy, but instead to simply make recommendations to the Secretary of Health and Human Services, proposals that Congress is specifically empowered to override if it sees fit.

"Fact-checking backfires among people who have enough basic knowledge of politics to resist evidence that contradicts their beliefs! It is difficult for people to see the world clearly, when their vision is biased by their pre-existing attitudes. As I have shown in earlier research, we all—liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans–see the world through partisan eyes." http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/01/09/why-it-is-so-difficult-to-k**l-the-death-panel-myth/

You can read more here:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/13/conservative-media-death-panels-lie-returns-in/195381

And for those of you who do not trust or use factcheckers, this is an interesting read:
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-death-panel-myth-backfire.html

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 11:26:33   #
bluejacket
 
rumitoid wrote:
There are a number of lies about Obama that get stated here and are repeated over and over again as if they are well-known and proven facts. Not that the people here are lying; they are simply and unknowingly passing along lies from others on the Right. These lies are so entrenched that any attempt to dispel them through fact-checkers or other sources brings immediate and often heated responses not just defending the lies but attacking the messenger. It is an understandable response. In attempting to debunk one of these Lies, such as the Death Panel myth, the commonly accepted nature of it as t***h plus being first heard and then repeated by people that are trusted and share the same ideology makes the debunking an assault on friends, family, and party...and one's own integrity. The person that would dare do such a thing must be...well you know all the insults and names.

Ginnyt nailed it with this line in one of her responses (Page 16 in the thread “The differences between Democrats and Republicans, by Ve'hoe.):
“The situation is exasperated when we find others who share similar biases. If the situation is left unchallenged for a prolonged time, our biases no longer appear in our mind as a collective notion or random facts that are tainted with half-t***hs and sometimes outright lies laced with enough historical t***h to make it plausible, but become crystallized and are then viewed as undeniable t***hs.”

Death Panels have become for many one of those “undeniable t***hs.” It is lie that was first uttered by Sarah Palin and immediately repeated by O' Reilly, Hannity, and Limbugh shortly there after and then by most every Republican thereafter. But here on the facts.

"Palin specified that she was referring to Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 which would have paid physicians for providing voluntary counseling to Medicare patients about living wills, advance directives, and end-of-life care options.

"Legislation providing for counseling patients on advance directives, living wills and end-of-life care had been on the books for years, however, the laws did not provide for physicians to be reimbursed for giving such counseling during routine physical exams of the elderly. The Patient Self-Determination Act (1991) requires health care providers, including hospitals, hospices and nursing homes to provide information about advance directives to admitted patients.[29][30] The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act began providing reimbursements for end-of-life care discussions with terminally ill patients in 2003.[31]

"A bill to provide for reimbursement every five years for office visit discussions with Medicare patients on advance directives, living wills, and other end of life care issues was proposed by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) in April 2009—with Republican cosponsors Charles Boustany (R-LA), a cardiovascular surgeon, Patrick Tiberi (R-OH), and Geoff Davis (R-KY).[32][33][34] The counseling was to be voluntary and could be reimbursed more often if a grave illness occurred. The legislation had been encouraged by Gundersen Lutheran and a loose coalition of other hospitals in La Crosse, Wisconsin that had had positive experiences with the widespread use of advance directives.[32][33][35][36] Blumenauer's standalone bill was tabled and inserted into the large health care reform bill, HR 3200 as Section 1233 shortly afterward.[32][37][38] Supporters of the Section 1233 counseling provision included the American Medical Association (AMA), AARP, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, and Consumers Union; the National Right to Life Committee opposed "the provision as written."[39] It was removed from the Senate version of the bill due to the death panel controversy[40] and was not included in the reconciled and final bill which became law in March 2010 and which is known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.[13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel

"The myth is also likely to persist because the law calls for the establishment of a 15 person committee– the independent payment advisory board (or IPAB)–which is given the job of recommending cost-saving measures to the Secretary of Health and Human Services if Medicare expenses rise too quickly. The IPAB will consist of independent healthcare experts who are forbidden, by law, from proposing changes that will affect Medicare coverage or quality. In other words, they are a far cry from a death panel, with the ACA specifically noting that this group is not allowed to do anything that would “ration” healthcare. The law also makes sure that the IPAB is not in a position to make policy, but instead to simply make recommendations to the Secretary of Health and Human Services, proposals that Congress is specifically empowered to override if it sees fit.

"Fact-checking backfires among people who have enough basic knowledge of politics to resist evidence that contradicts their beliefs! It is difficult for people to see the world clearly, when their vision is biased by their pre-existing attitudes. As I have shown in earlier research, we all—liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans–see the world through partisan eyes." http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/01/09/why-it-is-so-difficult-to-k**l-the-death-panel-myth/

You can read more here:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/13/conservative-media-death-panels-lie-returns-in/195381

And for those of you who do not trust or use factcheckers, this is an interesting read:
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-death-panel-myth-backfire.html
There are a number of lies about Obama that get st... (show quote)


Oh My God -another bright light of logic and reason , I hope you have good armor

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 11:33:46   #
BoJester
 
Careful now, those who h**e and detest t***h and fact will be coming for you. And of course they will try to chnge the topic.




rumitoid wrote:
There are a number of lies about Obama that get stated here and are repeated over and over again as if they are well-known and proven facts. Not that the people here are lying; they are simply and unknowingly passing along lies from others on the Right. These lies are so entrenched that any attempt to dispel them through fact-checkers or other sources brings immediate and often heated responses not just defending the lies but attacking the messenger. It is an understandable response. In attempting to debunk one of these Lies, such as the Death Panel myth, the commonly accepted nature of it as t***h plus being first heard and then repeated by people that are trusted and share the same ideology makes the debunking an assault on friends, family, and party...and one's own integrity. The person that would dare do such a thing must be...well you know all the insults and names.

Ginnyt nailed it with this line in one of her responses (Page 16 in the thread “The differences between Democrats and Republicans, by Ve'hoe.):
“The situation is exasperated when we find others who share similar biases. If the situation is left unchallenged for a prolonged time, our biases no longer appear in our mind as a collective notion or random facts that are tainted with half-t***hs and sometimes outright lies laced with enough historical t***h to make it plausible, but become crystallized and are then viewed as undeniable t***hs.”

Death Panels have become for many one of those “undeniable t***hs.” It is lie that was first uttered by Sarah Palin and immediately repeated by O' Reilly, Hannity, and Limbugh shortly there after and then by most every Republican thereafter. But here on the facts.

"Palin specified that she was referring to Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 which would have paid physicians for providing voluntary counseling to Medicare patients about living wills, advance directives, and end-of-life care options.

"Legislation providing for counseling patients on advance directives, living wills and end-of-life care had been on the books for years, however, the laws did not provide for physicians to be reimbursed for giving such counseling during routine physical exams of the elderly. The Patient Self-Determination Act (1991) requires health care providers, including hospitals, hospices and nursing homes to provide information about advance directives to admitted patients.[29][30] The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act began providing reimbursements for end-of-life care discussions with terminally ill patients in 2003.[31]

"A bill to provide for reimbursement every five years for office visit discussions with Medicare patients on advance directives, living wills, and other end of life care issues was proposed by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) in April 2009—with Republican cosponsors Charles Boustany (R-LA), a cardiovascular surgeon, Patrick Tiberi (R-OH), and Geoff Davis (R-KY).[32][33][34] The counseling was to be voluntary and could be reimbursed more often if a grave illness occurred. The legislation had been encouraged by Gundersen Lutheran and a loose coalition of other hospitals in La Crosse, Wisconsin that had had positive experiences with the widespread use of advance directives.[32][33][35][36] Blumenauer's standalone bill was tabled and inserted into the large health care reform bill, HR 3200 as Section 1233 shortly afterward.[32][37][38] Supporters of the Section 1233 counseling provision included the American Medical Association (AMA), AARP, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, and Consumers Union; the National Right to Life Committee opposed "the provision as written."[39] It was removed from the Senate version of the bill due to the death panel controversy[40] and was not included in the reconciled and final bill which became law in March 2010 and which is known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.[13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel

"The myth is also likely to persist because the law calls for the establishment of a 15 person committee– the independent payment advisory board (or IPAB)–which is given the job of recommending cost-saving measures to the Secretary of Health and Human Services if Medicare expenses rise too quickly. The IPAB will consist of independent healthcare experts who are forbidden, by law, from proposing changes that will affect Medicare coverage or quality. In other words, they are a far cry from a death panel, with the ACA specifically noting that this group is not allowed to do anything that would “ration” healthcare. The law also makes sure that the IPAB is not in a position to make policy, but instead to simply make recommendations to the Secretary of Health and Human Services, proposals that Congress is specifically empowered to override if it sees fit.

"Fact-checking backfires among people who have enough basic knowledge of politics to resist evidence that contradicts their beliefs! It is difficult for people to see the world clearly, when their vision is biased by their pre-existing attitudes. As I have shown in earlier research, we all—liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans–see the world through partisan eyes." http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/01/09/why-it-is-so-difficult-to-k**l-the-death-panel-myth/

You can read more here:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/13/conservative-media-death-panels-lie-returns-in/195381

And for those of you who do not trust or use factcheckers, this is an interesting read:
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-death-panel-myth-backfire.html
There are a number of lies about Obama that get st... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Sep 7, 2013 11:42:32   #
donc711 Loc: North East Kansas
 
Interesting prognosis on Obama Care. Did you read the whole thing cover to cover? It does set up a committee to watch over the expenses, doesn't it? This same committee sets the amounts that can be charged by doctors. It also sets the wages for doctors. Many doctors plan on quitting practice when the ACA has fully kicked in. That will create a shortage of doctors. Then with this shortage of doctors and only those willing to work for less there will be long lines of people waiting for medical care. With more sick than available doctors there will have to be some sort of priority system in place. this committee will have to be tasked to establish the priorities of establish a priority panel to set those priorities. Ever lived in Canada? Or the UK? They have socialized medicine and long lines. The patients are served on a priority basis. If you have an emanate life threatening condition you will be seen almost right away. That's the death squad that is talked about. I have read the ACA cover to cover. I have read about the committee that will be in charge of the expenditures and their duties. Never mind the internet sites that explain it all in understandable language as they are confusing. But this ACA is even more confusing, expensive, and not workable except as socialized medicine with all its faults. The medical profession was not broken, had a few flaws that would have been nice to correct instead of reinventing the wheel.

rumitoid wrote:
There are a number of lies about Obama that get stated here and are repeated over and over again as if they are well-known and proven facts. Not that the people here are lying; they are simply and unknowingly passing along lies from others on the Right. These lies are so entrenched that any attempt to dispel them through fact-checkers or other sources brings immediate and often heated responses not just defending the lies but attacking the messenger. It is an understandable response. In attempting to debunk one of these Lies, such as the Death Panel myth, the commonly accepted nature of it as t***h plus being first heard and then repeated by people that are trusted and share the same ideology makes the debunking an assault on friends, family, and party...and one's own integrity. The person that would dare do such a thing must be...well you know all the insults and names.

Ginnyt nailed it with this line in one of her responses (Page 16 in the thread “The differences between Democrats and Republicans, by Ve'hoe.):
“The situation is exasperated when we find others who share similar biases. If the situation is left unchallenged for a prolonged time, our biases no longer appear in our mind as a collective notion or random facts that are tainted with half-t***hs and sometimes outright lies laced with enough historical t***h to make it plausible, but become crystallized and are then viewed as undeniable t***hs.”

Death Panels have become for many one of those “undeniable t***hs.” It is lie that was first uttered by Sarah Palin and immediately repeated by O' Reilly, Hannity, and Limbugh shortly there after and then by most every Republican thereafter. But here on the facts.

"Palin specified that she was referring to Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 which would have paid physicians for providing voluntary counseling to Medicare patients about living wills, advance directives, and end-of-life care options.

"Legislation providing for counseling patients on advance directives, living wills and end-of-life care had been on the books for years, however, the laws did not provide for physicians to be reimbursed for giving such counseling during routine physical exams of the elderly. The Patient Self-Determination Act (1991) requires health care providers, including hospitals, hospices and nursing homes to provide information about advance directives to admitted patients.[29][30] The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act began providing reimbursements for end-of-life care discussions with terminally ill patients in 2003.[31]

"A bill to provide for reimbursement every five years for office visit discussions with Medicare patients on advance directives, living wills, and other end of life care issues was proposed by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) in April 2009—with Republican cosponsors Charles Boustany (R-LA), a cardiovascular surgeon, Patrick Tiberi (R-OH), and Geoff Davis (R-KY).[32][33][34] The counseling was to be voluntary and could be reimbursed more often if a grave illness occurred. The legislation had been encouraged by Gundersen Lutheran and a loose coalition of other hospitals in La Crosse, Wisconsin that had had positive experiences with the widespread use of advance directives.[32][33][35][36] Blumenauer's standalone bill was tabled and inserted into the large health care reform bill, HR 3200 as Section 1233 shortly afterward.[32][37][38] Supporters of the Section 1233 counseling provision included the American Medical Association (AMA), AARP, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, and Consumers Union; the National Right to Life Committee opposed "the provision as written."[39] It was removed from the Senate version of the bill due to the death panel controversy[40] and was not included in the reconciled and final bill which became law in March 2010 and which is known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.[13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel

"The myth is also likely to persist because the law calls for the establishment of a 15 person committee– the independent payment advisory board (or IPAB)–which is given the job of recommending cost-saving measures to the Secretary of Health and Human Services if Medicare expenses rise too quickly. The IPAB will consist of independent healthcare experts who are forbidden, by law, from proposing changes that will affect Medicare coverage or quality. In other words, they are a far cry from a death panel, with the ACA specifically noting that this group is not allowed to do anything that would “ration” healthcare. The law also makes sure that the IPAB is not in a position to make policy, but instead to simply make recommendations to the Secretary of Health and Human Services, proposals that Congress is specifically empowered to override if it sees fit.

"Fact-checking backfires among people who have enough basic knowledge of politics to resist evidence that contradicts their beliefs! It is difficult for people to see the world clearly, when their vision is biased by their pre-existing attitudes. As I have shown in earlier research, we all—liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans–see the world through partisan eyes." http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/01/09/why-it-is-so-difficult-to-k**l-the-death-panel-myth/

You can read more here:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/13/conservative-media-death-panels-lie-returns-in/195381

And for those of you who do not trust or use factcheckers, this is an interesting read:
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-death-panel-myth-backfire.html
There are a number of lies about Obama that get st... (show quote)

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 11:43:43   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
The US is already at the bankrupt level and h*****g on for dear life. The ACA (Obamacare) is adding trillions of dollars to the expenses of health care to be paid by taxpayers. I know that eventually the government must collapse of its own weight and its inability to borrow more, and I suspect every "covered" American will cease to have health coverage. This could very readily be considered a "death panel" issue since government is determined to unnecessarily manage healthcare. When I need a kidney t***splant, how will I be able to get it if the government and its health care program is defunct? Can someone cover this altogether possible scenario?

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 11:48:13   #
bmac32 Loc: West Florida
 
Dazzle em with a mixture of t***hs and lies. He's to hoping you get to that magic number and all of a sudden those things you need to simply breath better are pulled because you have reached that magic number. Opinions are like a-----s but when it happens in real life daily and it happens to you you'll be like 'what in hell'. The law isn't even 100% enforced yet.

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 11:51:13   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
bmac32 wrote:
Dazzle em with a mixture of t***hs and lies. He's to hoping you get to that magic number and all of a sudden those things you need to simply breath better are pulled because you have reached that magic number. Opinions are like a-----s but when it happens in real life daily and it happens to you you'll be like 'what in hell'. The law isn't even 100% enforced yet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The good Lord willing, it never will be enforced, or even begun!

Reply
 
 
Sep 7, 2013 11:54:49   #
BoJester
 
Don't you take responsiblity for your own healthcare? If you carry your own insurance, that won't be a problem, unless your insurance company denies you coverage, which they do now. Conservatives are always crying about personal responsibility, so don't depend on the government.





Tasine wrote:
The US is already at the bankrupt level and h*****g on for dear life. The ACA (Obamacare) is adding trillions of dollars to the expenses of health care to be paid by taxpayers. I know that eventually the government must collapse of its own weight and its inability to borrow more, and I suspect every "covered" American will cease to have health coverage. This could very readily be considered a "death panel" issue since government is determined to unnecessarily manage healthcare. When I need a kidney t***splant, how will I be able to get it if the government and its health care program is defunct? Can someone cover this altogether possible scenario?
The US is already at the bankrupt level and h*****... (show quote)

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 12:07:44   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
BoJester wrote:
Don't you take responsiblity for your own healthcare? If you carry your own insurance, that won't be a problem, unless your insurance company denies you coverage, which they do now. Conservatives are always crying about personal responsibility, so don't depend on the government.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How very kind of you to offer such wise counsel. OF COURSE I HAVE INSURANCE, you i***t!! YOU AND OBAMA are counting on millions of Americans relying on Obamacare non-care insurance, so what will they do when the government folds - NOT IF IT FOLDS, but WHEN IT FOLDS? Millions will die, and it will be the fault of Obama and his enablers who are too dumb to see the handwriting on the wall and are filled with so much misplaced personal p***e that they cannot bear to hear t***h. Most of those dying will be those enablers who trust the con man to the nth degree. It WON'T be those who cover their bases - that would be the wealthy and the right wing.

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 12:14:49   #
bmac32 Loc: West Florida
 
Well Bo SOME people do take responsiblity for their own health care but BECAUSE of Obama care prices jumped and jumped. Many employers have dropped health coverage and those of us retired are being slammed, I planned for 7% a year extra but when it's gone up 22%, now that wasn't planned on. I own my own home and don't have bills up the ying yang but millions are not as luckly and just 15% hurts them badly. It doesn't matter if your liberal or conserative they take your money.

BoJester wrote:
Don't you take responsiblity for your own healthcare? If you carry your own insurance, that won't be a problem, unless your insurance company denies you coverage, which they do now. Conservatives are always crying about personal responsibility, so don't depend on the government.

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 12:21:41   #
bmac32 Loc: West Florida
 
Think it's quite sad that liberals don't see that this will effect them, maybe not today but down the road. If it is fully put in place to keep it afloat they will either need to cut services or raise those rates on all whom are covered by it.



Tasine wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How very kind of you to offer such wise counsel. OF COURSE I HAVE INSURANCE, you i***t!! YOU AND OBAMA are counting on millions of Americans relying on Obamacare non-care insurance, so what will they do when the government folds - NOT IF IT FOLDS, but WHEN IT FOLDS? Millions will die, and it will be the fault of Obama and his enablers who are too dumb to see the handwriting on the wall and are filled with so much misplaced personal p***e that they cannot bear to hear t***h. Most of those dying will be those enablers who trust the con man to the nth degree. It WON'T be those who cover their bases - that would be the wealthy and the right wing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ br How very kind of you... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Sep 7, 2013 14:44:40   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
bmac32 wrote:
Think it's quite sad that liberals don't see that this will effect them, maybe not today but down the road. If it is fully put in place to keep it afloat they will either need to cut services or raise those rates on all whom are covered by it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It IS sad, but it is also so very maddening when they seem to have no more mental cognizance than a chicken running around in the barnyard, not knowing its head will soon be severed from its body.....so that it's masters can dine on it.

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 18:40:40   #
rumitoid
 
donc711 said: Interesting prognosis on Obama Care. Did you read the whole thing cover to cover? It does set up a committee to watch over the expenses, doesn't it? This same committee sets the amounts that can be charged by doctors. It also sets the wages for doctors. Many doctors plan on quitting practice when the ACA has fully kicked in. That will create a shortage of doctors. Then with this shortage of doctors and only those willing to work for less there will be long lines of people waiting for medical care. With more sick than available doctors there will have to be some sort of priority system in place. this committee will have to be tasked to establish the priorities of establish a priority panel to set those priorities. Ever lived in Canada? Or the UK? They have socialized medicine and long lines. The patients are served on a priority basis. If you have an emanate life threatening condition you will be seen almost right away. That's the death squad that is talked about. I have read the ACA cover to cover. I have read about the committee that will be in charge of the expenditures and their duties. Never mind the internet sites that explain it all in understandable language as they are confusing. But this ACA is even more confusing, expensive, and not workable except as socialized medicine with all its faults. The medical profession was not broken, had a few flaws that would have been nice to correct instead of reinventing the wheel.

Thanks to Republican propaganda, Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 was removed from the ACA. The subject is Not Obamacare; it is the lie about Death Panels that helped to remove an excellent and protected program for the elderly and terminally ill. Shame.

Reply
Sep 7, 2013 22:10:15   #
donc711 Loc: North East Kansas
 
I see you have your mind made up and reason escapes your mental abilities.

rumitoid wrote:
donc711 said: Interesting prognosis on Obama Care. Did you read the whole thing cover to cover? It does set up a committee to watch over the expenses, doesn't it? This same committee sets the amounts that can be charged by doctors. It also sets the wages for doctors. Many doctors plan on quitting practice when the ACA has fully kicked in. That will create a shortage of doctors. Then with this shortage of doctors and only those willing to work for less there will be long lines of people waiting for medical care. With more sick than available doctors there will have to be some sort of priority system in place. this committee will have to be tasked to establish the priorities of establish a priority panel to set those priorities. Ever lived in Canada? Or the UK? They have socialized medicine and long lines. The patients are served on a priority basis. If you have an emanate life threatening condition you will be seen almost right away. That's the death squad that is talked about. I have read the ACA cover to cover. I have read about the committee that will be in charge of the expenditures and their duties. Never mind the internet sites that explain it all in understandable language as they are confusing. But this ACA is even more confusing, expensive, and not workable except as socialized medicine with all its faults. The medical profession was not broken, had a few flaws that would have been nice to correct instead of reinventing the wheel.

Thanks to Republican propaganda, Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 was removed from the ACA. The subject is Not Obamacare; it is the lie about Death Panels that helped to remove an excellent and protected program for the elderly and terminally ill. Shame.
donc711 said: Interesting prognosis on Obama Care.... (show quote)

Reply
Sep 8, 2013 07:18:16   #
eden
 
bluejacket wrote:
Oh My God -another bright light of logic and reason , I hope you have good armor


I would concur. The junkyard dog drive-by garbage throwing that sometimes passes for political discourse on this site needs more sane moderate voices like this.
A vigorous debate is welcome and necessary, mindless petty mudslinging and poisonous invective is not.

Reply
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