alabuck wrote:
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Theo,
Disingenuous? Not at all. If it's okay for the Religious Right to use marriage statistics and child abuse statistics to buttress their points, why is it not okay for the LGBT community to do the same?
Because Heterosexual marriage is measured in centuries. Homosexual marriage is measured since month before last. How is there even a statistic for that?
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Also, the Religious Right likes to highlight statistical areas that they say the LGBT community is destroying our country, today. For you to now go back, "thousands of years," doesn't apply to the Religious Right's argument toward what's happening in our country, today.
You've decided that, have you? How is it you can ask "What's wrong with Homosexual lifestyle?" and when we cite historical fact of destruction of nations, you say "Oh, you can't go back beyond when the law was enacted."
And it is not a "Religious right" it is a God fearing nation, with a few unbelieving idiots who think they are in charge.
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Like I've said, I don't live my life like they do; but, I'm not in favor of using religion to argue a secular issue. This is about the "civil rights" of a group; not their religion.
Totally false! It is not o.k. for the secular world to dictate to the believing world, what kind of argument to use in defense or offense. They need to get used to having their motives questioned by other than "go along to get along" like minded simpletons. I don't like to use secular rhetoric to argue a religious issue. What's your point? It was a religious issue long before it was a secular one.
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If there's anything "disingenuous" about this, it's the Religious Right's using God and His word to discriminate against someone different from the norm.
That is like saying "It is disingenuous to discriminate against someone different from the norm" when you try to get someone arrested for murdering your room mate with a knife instead of a gun. Homosexual life-style has caused the downfall of cities, communities, nations and civilizations long before uncaring citizens began to care more for the Homosexual perpetrator than they do for the priest of God who prays in their midst fro God to forgive their ignorance.
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This is no more antithetical than how the Native-Americans and the African-Americans were/are treated. All they want are the same (equal) opportunities to live as equal citizens of this country; free to live life; to have the same liberties, and to persue happiness, just like how we WASPs live.
That is total nonsense. The "Native American" never wanted "equality," they only wanted to make war, eat buffalo, steal horses to prove their manhood, and fornicate.
The so called "African-American" (None of whom are citizens of Africa) never got past the grass hut and dirt floor, and considered their half-naked King to be God sent.
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Why is differentiating them, based on their sexual orientation any more righteous than claiming God endorsed slavery, based on Paul's writings:
Ephesians 6:4-6: "Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart."
Why is differentiating them, based on their sexual... (
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Paul expressed the truth about slavery, that it began as an expression of mercy, because they then would not have to kill prisoners of war, but would use them in labor intent situations.
Ephesians 6:5:"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
Ephesians 6:9:"And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."
Colossians 3:22:"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."
Colossians 4:1:"Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven."
Titus 2:9:"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them."
And, Peter wrote in; 1 Peter 2:18:"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."
And, this is just a few from the New Testament. Should I list some from the Old Testament?[/quote]
Whatever moves you to publish.
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Don't think for one minute that I'm endorsing slavery. I'm not. But, Christians have used the Bible, God and Christianity to validate their sins for quite a long time.
So if you were walking around the towns of New England in slave days, and happened upon an auction where slaves were offered for sale, and you heard the salesman says
"Who will buy this old slave? If no one buys him, I will just have to kill him and begin with a new, younger slave." And you would just continue wandering around, ignoring the plight of the slave, but considering yourself righteous because you after all, do not own a slave. Neither do you show any interest in buying the slave to set him free, to save his life. That is a worse kind of hypocrisy than the man who owns a slave as an act of mercy.
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To claim that the LGBT community are sinners and their lifestyle shouldn't be condoned is pure hyporacy on the part of Christians when it's very easy to see that they continue to sin by their judging of others.
And that is stupidity at its most blatant practice. You do not even comprehend what Christian judgment is about, but think to spew a reference to "Thou shalt not judge" as though it is a "sin" to judge in any capacity whatsoever.
Christians are not to "judge" in the same way the world perception defines judging. Christians are to be the standard by which the world is judged; the standard by which Angels are judged, and the standard by which they themselves are to be judged. And Christ is their standard by which they are measured, to become like-standards.
In other words, when God judges the world, the Homosexual may well state his defense the same way he does on this board, "I was born this way" of "I did not consider it to be sinful, but only an expression of my natural love for my neighbor;" or "Oh, your standard is so high no one can live that way."
But God will tell the sinning world, You say "no one can live to that high standard. Look to the Christian. He is the standard by which you will be judged. And my son is the standard by which those Christians will be judged. So don't tell me it can't be done." And when the Christian shows up humble, and asks forgiveness for his sins, he is forgiven, because he at least tried, in a difficult and unfeeling world of unbelief. And when the failures show up and ask for forgiveness for their sins, they will not receive it, because first, they did not believe that their unbelief was sin, second they did not believe their unholy behavior was sin, and third, they did not try to find out and change when it became evident.
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Judgments is God's domain; not mankinds.
Then explain God's instruction through The Apostle Paul to the saints at Corinth -
1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1 Corinthians 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1 Corinthians 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
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Seems to me, that there are all kinds of "different" people on this planet. And, guess what, no one is forcing you, or anybody else, to live like they do. No one is forcing you to even like them. But, as long as you've decided to speak for God, let me remind you that we're told, after "... loving God with all of your heart, mind and soul," that in order to follow Jesus, we're "... to love (our) neighbors like (ourselves.)
Evidently you don't know any more about "Godly love" than you do about "Righteous judging."
We are to love one another as "images of God" - and teach first by word, and then by example, what righteousness before God consists of. We are to encourage the new convert to increase in faith, learn to eliminate ignorance, and seek to set an example so others will see the changes in our lives, and want to know how they can attain the peace that comes with faith and observance of Godly Love.
And not, no Christian "hates" any fellow man; we simply cannot abide with the man who cannot contain his person, but constantly yields to his lusts and evil desires. And it is not so much a case of our righteousness is better than your righteousness, but is rather more a case of "I have overcome many of the temptations of life, and you are reminding me of those things that tempted me, and I am beginning to feel the draw of those temptations, and I have been instructed to withdraw myself from such men, and repent of the unrighteousness of my desires, and continue to try to grow in faith and knowledge in such a way that the behavior of men will not cause me to be tempted above what I am able to overcome.
Any Christian who forgets his own worldly beginnings is going to have many opportunities to be reminded of them.
We wish to save our Fellow Man by his strengths, not condemn him because of his weaknesses.