Char4Dew

WOW Just WOW! A lot to take in. My brain is swimming....
I will look more into Talmud, I know nothing about it. Took 3 classes this winter will take another group of classes in the fall.
But I want to qualify something you say Talmud is not Commentary? hmmm?
We know it is not Scripture, Why is it not commentary?
My understanding is that Zohar was the oral transference from God to man.

Char4Dew

Now Talmud makes much more sense. I know it is commentary, I imagine it is fixed for those who don’t know so that they don’t point to this If I try to correct them….

Yes I speak Hebrew and Talmud is Learning.
As Kabbalh is receiving and Zohar is splendor :) I have all the books
I dabble in all of it. I am no scholar of any of it.

You gave them too much already, It may overwhelm them – but interesting to me.

Char4Dew

You gave me a lot on this page, I grew up in a religious home So I had a great base. And bible was my favorite class as a youngster in Israel.
After we arrived here, little by little I begun to strayed…Married a Jew who only knew he had a Bar Mitzvah, I only kept holidays.
I only came back TSHUVA to learn 3 years ago and now I go to Temple every Shabbat. My library is huge and I will never be able to real all my great books.
So I am really starting from point -0-
Sorry I left, glad I am back. :)

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

I did use the quote/reply button -- just deleted all but what I wanted to comment on.

I wondered if "denomination" could be substituted for "demonization" - but if it was deliberate that's hilarious.

Not everyone is aware that Daniel is NOT part of the PROPHETS - but of the WRITINGS...

I doubt that in this lifetime I will ever read two Talmuds, Kaballah and Zohar - but it is interesting to hear about them

Char4Dew

ALL THAT :) Not unless you get a cook, buttler and just sit right now down and start to study. Not in the plans.
We would have had to start as kids to get it ALL
:P

Char4Dew

THE TALMUD

Sometimes I had seen things said about Talmud on the internet that my inner voice kept nagging at me “No this cannot be correct information”. My knowledge was just enough for this to stand out like a sort thumb. So I signed up to take a few classes and and it helpd to point me in the right direction....have read some too.
In no way am I a scholar, NO, but I know my roots, religion and history well enough to know that when I find the right information it will show up and feel clear. I was willing to go dig (still digging).
My class will continue in the fall, however don’t ask me to many questions because I am really a first grader. :)

This is a vast source of knowledge that take many years of study and much is written in code, even if you think you can read it, the words themselves have so many meanings, and one letter or dot can change the entire meaning of a word / sentence.
The Talmud is a vast collection of Jewish laws and traditions. But it is a lot of valuable commentary too that need a learned person to translate because it has so many meanings that the naked eye can and often does mistranslate. What Talmud is Not is Scripture.

Despite the dry subject matter the Talmud makes interesting reading because it is infused with vigorous intellectual debate, humor and deep wisdom. As the saying goes, 'you don't have to be Jewish' to appreciate this text. The process of studying the Talmud has been compared with the practice of Zen Buddhist meditation, and for good reason.

It is made up of 10 books and it is a vast body of knowledge.
There are 2 versions:
FIRST VERSION Is the BABYLONIAN – written while Jews were in exile in Babylon.
SECOND VERSION much shorter and known as YERUSHALMI written in Jerusalem when the Jews returned. Sometimes used as reference book while Babylonian is used as a deep study.

I searched the internet and found so many Anti Semitic sites with untrue information.
Knowing that so much of the information is in code, it was clear to me that I had to share the right information to correct the deception from he who he who speaks with false tongue.
This Link/site will give you correct information feel free to copy any part. The information is extensive; has English translation of the Talmud and it is free for your use.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
(Not all know Talmud study)

THE SCRIPTURE - THE TORAH

Is - The old Testament; THE WRITTEN BIBLE and is comprised of 5 books – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, book of Numbers and Deuteronomy known as TORAH or Tanakh or Chumash.
Within the 5 main books are 24 books
Example:
PSALMS is within in the Scriptures as a separate book called Thillim.
The PROOHETS is a book within the scriptures called Nevim
The old Testament is a code of life for all time and space.
ALL OBSERVERS KNOW AND USE THE TORAH

THE ZOHAR

Is the ORAL bible and came prior to the written but in the 2nd century was written in Aramaic, the original language.
Known as the foundational work in the literature of Jewish mystical thought known as Kabbalah. It is a group of books including commentary written about the Torah, but was the first “WORDS” Spoken by God directly. Today we may say was Channeled and taught to wise elders, and retained in memory. Taught for generations verbally. It includes Mysticism, Psychology, Astronomy, the relationship between Universal Energy, Light and Men, Universal Laws, And more. This is an advanced study.
(Not all know the Zohar study)

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

May I ask where or why you think the Zohar is the oral bible?? http://www.kabbalah.info/engkab/mystzohar.htm#.VUw_DXzn9jo

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

And now, as Don Pardo - the original host of Jeapordy used to say:

"Let us pause to collect our thoughts".

Torah is specifically the first five books of our Bible.

Tankh is all of the Hebrew SCRIPTURE, and includes all of the Torah, but none of the Talmud.

Talmud - of which there are TWO - is not Scripture - but not exactly is it COMMENTARY. It is 'kinda-sorta like' Commentary -- only DIFFERENT.

Kaballah is more or less a SCHOOL OF THOUGHT rather than a collection of books.

Zohar is a collection of books - associated with the Kabbalah school of thought.

And now we will begin DOUBLE JEAPORDY - and see what is ORAL about the Zohar -

and I would like to ask why - when it was written - it was written in Aramaic rather than Hebrew?

(It is ok to have your answer IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION)

I intend to start a thread about

Christian equivalencies

to what is SCRIPTURE and associated writings

and have decided to title it:

"The Denominations, Demonizations, and the Damnations"

Char4Dew

Funny you should link this group, I took courses with them, and the courses are good;
I found them to be a cult. I ran for the hills within 8-10 months.
I trust my inner voice it has always helped me.
I am NEVER saying that Kabbala or Zohar is a cult...
I am CLEAR that this group linked is very much that.

I also said in my first attempt at clarifying The “WORD” that I am a first grader (so to speak) and certainly no authority.
But I do thank you for the Challenge you gave me to write it up.

This was my understanding when I learned Kabblah and there sure is so much, much more to know.
The books are limning my walls and yes one day I will get to more of it….
I am happy to be corrected. Here we go with how I understood this to be.

To the extent that Zohar is UNIVERSAL LAW - it came first.
I remember my teacher said a GOLEM was made using the knowledge of ZOHAR not Torah.
Zohar tells it all while Torah is the devotion to God, and a manual to lifes order, HALACHA is in Torah.

I am searching more. - I did not drop this....

Char4Dew

Zohar was written in LASHON KADMI = Earlier Tongue.
Because of the many nuances that are not always easy to translate.

Hebrew is similar but it is not the same Language.
It is known as LASHON KASDOSH = Holly tongue

I have the Zohar Transelated By The Kabbala Center = Rabbi Berg. (23 valiums)

I met and heard Rabbi Daniel Matt speak and I have to say, while it is still Zohar,
it resonated differently and I would study with him, but he is not in my state…

I went to the book store, and took a look at his books too.
Went with one of the books I have ….
Transitions were not always on the same wave length. I do not have his books, (LIKE HIM MUCH BETTER)
I recently heard that the Kaabblah Center is selling his books now.


PS: Thank you for sharing your knowledge. :)
I certainly have no claim to knowing enough to teach anything.
Happy to share what I have.

Char4Dew

(Sorry I wrote out an entire nice reply – Drugs/meds made my post disappear- I hope Brain in Gear Now. Let’s see if I can put something together again. and press send this time. LOL)
Thank you for a clear Post – Interesting :)
ARAMEIC = LASHON KIDMON = Earliest Tongue
HEBREW = LASHON KADOSH = Holy Tongue
Rabbis of antiquity used Aramaic in discussion

ZOHAR is an integral part of the Oral Law and were transmitted together with the rest of the Oral Law by Moses to Joshua, through the era of the Prophets and the Men of the Great Assembly,

ZOHAR is the authentic book of mysticism passed down from the second century verbally, and in secrecy.
Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai wrote it down because he did not want to leave this world and chance that the information could be lost; He presented the information to the generations to come, but it was still taught in secrecy.
(Some say that Rabbi Moshe de Leon wrote it but he himself said he did not.)
I have 23 volumes of the ZOHAR translated by Rabbi Berg of The Kabbala center
Still written in Aramaic with English translation (available in several translated languages)
My personal observation o Kabbalh center was that of Cult and I trust myself.

I listened to live lectures by Rabbi Daniel Matt who is the author of ZOHAR also written in Aramaic with English translations. He did resonate with me far more than the Kabblah Center and I would study with him if he was in my state.
I went to the book store to see his book and took one of mine with me. I must say from a student who is a first grader (Senior citizen LOL) there were some differences.
SSO WHY DO I THINK that would be? Because each word can cave several meanings and even the change of one dot can create a variation.

AGAIN I have a lot to learn and I am open to do so.
I can only share a little bit in this vast body of knowledge.

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

"I have the Zohar Transelated By The Kabbala Center = Rabbi Berg. (23 valiums) "


23 valiums

23 volumes

lol

I love it!

I am fascinated by LANGUAGES - and any insight I can get anywhere - I appreciate it.

I think Jesus grew up hearing Egyptian, Hebrew and Greek as a toddler (while in Egypt)
(Tankh had been translated into Greek couple centuries before)

then Aramaic was the dialect in Galilee where He moved back to as a child

and Latin I think He knew also -- because he conversed somewhat with Pilate (not much, but somewhat) and I don't think a Roman Governor would stoop to speaking in the language of a subjugated people

Char4Dew

LoL :lol:
I’m dyslexic on top of being drugged out on meds.
I hate drugs, but maybe I need a valium :lol:


I have written manuals in the past on Real Estate.
The person that edits for me is in hysterics all the time
She sais I have a great way with words, and I also write in Charis (my name Char + is…)
She sometimes has to flip an entire paragraph around.
Not only guess my misspelled word. The final piece is great THANK God for editorial help. :lol:

As for JC I'm not sure how many languages he spoke,
He did travel so I am sure, he knew several / many.
I am sure Aramaic had to be one, AS the Rabbis of his time used to discuss in Aramaic

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

It's great Char

I used to write manuals too -- computer user manuals; originally hired for that job because I was NOT entrenched in computer jargon and so it was thought I could 'relate' to the users

I quickly became steeped in computer jargon myself and only lasted a year; but I produced a couple of decent manuals

I went back to working with aircraft on a military airfield

So - yes - JC did travel...

I did not address anything besides His biblically documented flight to Egypt as a very young child

but there are many who say that between 12 and 30 He went to India and all over the place -- I can neither confirm nor deny any of that

I admire Mel Gibson as a producer/director in PASSION OF THE CHRIST -- everyone spoke accurately (I hope) in Hebrew, Aramaic - or Latin -- English was only in sub-titles.

Poetic license was taken in the film concerning the character of SATAN (how literal/non-literal is Satan?) but all in all -- it was a movie very accurate to Bible. It's simply too gruesome to watch again, even though I bought the DVD

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Well you are the expert. I still do not agree with you, but so be it. This is now your topic and I will leave you to run it.