barcruz

Yea! he was a good general. Thank God Eisenhower prevented him from starting WW3 with the Russians.

barcruz

Please tell me why the 2nd. Amendment was created.

yhwh99

Barcruz: I'm not an expert on th Constitution; but I have taught Social Studies, served as a vet, and have seen the gun law from both perspectives. In my opinion; the 2nd Amendment was written to given citizens the right to protect themselves against criminals, anachists, criminal elements of established governement, and civil unrest! When we take up the oath of service we promise to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. A gun owner has that right entrusted to him by the Constitution. In the event of civil unrest or r**tious violence. The gun owners is sanctioned by "natural authority", the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers to defend "native" soil! That's why the Second Amendment can't be amened! It's an anti-tyranny clause to enforce "checks an balances". We Democrats understand the law but are afraid of correctly interpret the law. But that's another "can of worms" I dare not open!! (Smile) So the intent of the law was to protect life, liberty, Democracy, the American way of life, and innocent blood. Oh my God I sound like a Republican!! But that's the t***h! There is an unwritten law that states; " A man's home is his castle" You have the right to defend and repel any force that threatens your family or your life. It is a God given natural law of survival. Nuff Said!

CrazyHorse Loc: Kansas

Quid Pro Quo, yhwh99: Patriotic democrats and old time patriotic democrats need to v**e with conservatives until we can take back our country, and hopefully they can take back the use to be patriotic democrat party.

barcruz

You're only half right. I should have been more specific.I should've asked why our founding fathers found it necessary to create the 2nd. amendment. We must look at what was going on at the time. We just became a nation and we were very weak militarily. The Americans didn't really beat the British. The British were running out of money and were too concerned with the French. The British basically pulled out. The Americans knew this and were thinking that the British would return. Our founding fathers were correct in this thinking. The British continued to interfere with us which brought on the War of 1812. They kept their resentment towards us all the way up to the Civil War. Actual war between us almost erupted again in 1859 during an event called the 'Pig War'. Jackson's army at the battle of New Orleans was 80% m*****a. So it is this reason why the 2nd. Amendment was created;to make sure the people stay armed in case of invasion,mainly the British. The most important part of the Amendment is the beginning; " A well regulated M*****A,being necessary to secure a free state" All the gun nuts always say the last part; "the right to bear arms" and they concoct their own interpretations for the beginning,like;"we must arm ourselves against the government so they can't take us over" It was created to stop foreign governments interfering with us not to fight against our own government or any other so-called tyranny that the gun lobby likes to believe in. Once we got to be a powerful nation the 2nd Amendment became obsolete(look at the 3rd amendment) so the gun nuts invented other reasons for it's interpretation,like; "my right to protect myself" and being afraid of their own government for some crazy reason that I can't understand. I know I'm going to be called all kind of names for this post but I had to say what the REAL reason behind the amendment was.

yhwh99

Barcruz: You must understand that the orginal Constitution was written for wealthy land owners and those who who had "influencial titles". What does this have to do with gun owners and the 2nd Amendment? Well, African-Americans and various minorities were left out! Therefore; many "patriots" interpreted the Constitution through "prejudicial" eyes! I agree that our country was "weak" in that we had just ended a Revolutionary War. Also the Articles of Confederation was "grossly" inadequate in that it could not be enforced! The Constitutional Congress could not even pay the Army! Rumor has it that they were nearly run out of town! We didn't have an adequate central government that could "oversee" the rebuilding of the country. Everyone had their own economy, their own m*****as, and their own currencies. The Federal government has to maintain a balance of power with the states. That is the danger of having states establish their own rules. Remember the Civil War and popular sovereignity? In the midst of the evolution of Democracy; the 2nd Amendment was written. What I'm trying to express is that people began to interpret the Constitution for their own agendas. Politicians modified the Constitution to allow "w****s" only to v**e. It took nearly one hundred years before women and b****s were allowe to v**e. It took longer for a "black" president to be allowed to even be placed on the b****t! So, don't expect gun owners to relish the idea of giving up the power, authority, and security that a gun provides. It's a love affair that America has for firearms! A physical representation of American patriotism. Even young black men seem mesmerized with the fact of having a gun; legal or illegal! There has to be some restrictions on ownership but they vehemently oppose anyone who even considers background checks. It will take time before we can convince they that its for the public good and welfare of those of us who don't own guns to safely walk the streets!

CrazyHorse Loc: Kansas

barcruz

What you said was exactly what i was trying to say. Later on people did interpret the2nd. Amendment to their own benefit. I was trying to convey what it was originally created for. It wasn't created for some of the reasons that some people think of today. Great post on your part! I agree with everything you have said.

barcruz

OK. Try this then. The 2nd. amendment was created for nation preservation not because of self protection or fear from our own government.

CrazyHorse Loc: Kansas

Quid Pro Quo, barcruz: Not totallly correct. We have a second Amendment for protection of our persons, families, homes, and properties, but more importantly; for protection against a tyrant and/or his government tyranny. Moreover, it is not an issue up for negotiation or argument. Don't come to Kansas and knock on doors for guns, unless you are in a tank.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty." - George Washington

"Americans have the right and advantage to be armed; unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." - James Madison

"The said constitution [sic] shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams

"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." -Sarah Brady

I would think the last quote explains the need for the first three quotes and the great understanding of our founders on why the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is still relevant.

CrazyHorse Loc: Kansas

Quid Pro Quo, AuntiE: Well stated and well quoted. Thanks for your effort. :D :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

P.S. barcrud: You can give up your freedom if you want, but leave the rest of us the hell out of it.

Don't be giving up our freedom barcrud, run back to your hole before you get bit

barcruz

Well then show me where it says that in the amendment. If the government would attack us then it would indeed come at your house in a tank. Then what would you and all your guns do then?

yhwh99

Crazy Horse:
The majority of the Southern delegates who signed the Constitution were s***e owners! Others were wealthy merchants and statesmen. History also suggests that some of our Founding Fathers owned s***es. They were educated and scholarly men who were given a difficult task of creating a government. They needed to ratify a Constitution; therefore the debate as to whether s***es were men or property had to wait!
Article I, Section. 2 [S***es count as 3/5 persons]
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [i.e., s***es].
The Constitution that the delegates proposed included several provisions that explicitly recognized and protected s***ery. Without these provisions, southern delegates would not support the new Constitution–and without the southern states on board, the Constitution had no chance of being ratified.
Provisions allowed southern states to count s***es as 3/5 persons for purposes of apportionment in Congress (even though the s***es could not, of course, v**e), expressly denied to Congress the power to prohibit importation of new s***es until 1808, and prevented free states from enacting laws protecting fugitive s***es.
http://wiseconservatism.com/2011/01/06/35th-clause-in-the-constitution-what-is-it-and-why-was-it-put-in/
The Founding Fathers wanted to create a new government with a fair and equal form of representation therefore they established a Congress consisting of a Senate and a House of Representatives. Since most of the colonies had this type of state government they agree with that type of Congress. Therefore there was some room for compromise.
The term Republic is given to our representative government. But the power of the government rests in the governed” We have the privilege and the right to v**e. Therefore; many Americans consider themselves as members of a Democracy because we have the right to v**e. “One man; one v**e”

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

We must also understand that you are either a lose constructionist or a strict constructionist. I strongly believe that the Constitution is a “flexible” living document that has to grow and adapt to the needs of a growing multi-cultural diversified society. See the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.
You mentioned that the Founding Fathers originally implemented the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution. I beg to differ! The Constitution could not be ratified by the colonies because they were fearful that the government would be too powerful an intrusive upon individual rights therefore the Second Amendment was a “compromise” to meet the colonies’ standards for ratification.
During the debates on the adoption of the Constitution, its opponents repeatedly charged that the Constitution as drafted would open the way to tyranny by the central government. Fresh in their minds was the memory of the British violation of civil rights before and during the Revolution. They demanded a "bill of rights" that would spell out the immunities of individual citizens.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights.html

I believe that the 10th Amendment which some called “Popular Sovereignty” allowed a state to self-govern itself just as long as it didn’t encroach upon the jurisdiction of the Federal government or violate the Constitution itself. Although you may consider the 2nd Amendment to the included “de facto” into the original Constitution it was inserted into the Bill of Rights after the Constitution was written and debated upon by the delegates and the people. The original Constitution only gave a state the right to implement its own v****g and e******n policies. History has proven that that was a bad idea! (V**er’s Rights Act, V**er Suppression, Bush vs. Gore 2000)
See Section. 4.
The Times, Places and Manner of holding E******ns for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of choosing Senators.
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.

CrazyHorse Loc: Kansas

Quid Pro Quo, barcrud: Your statement includes a non-sentence, and is disjuncted and nonsensical. The rationale intended and clearly exhibited in my statement was that it would take a tank at the door to obtain the guns of Kansans. I'm sorry, but I'm not capable of properly functing with your brand of the writen language. I'm out.