AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

We have more then a few on site who frequently cite Thomas Jefferson as proof of separation of church and state. The following was part of an article concerning a municipality closing rental of a public building to a church.

*****here's what Thomas Jefferson (the so-labeled chief of all separatists) and James Madison ("the Father of the Constitution") practiced and had to say about churches meeting in civic buildings. Warning: For those who don't know, the following information might leave you in shock over where Jefferson and Madison (and other founders) met for church services throughout their presidencies.

The Library of Congress website states the following:

"It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson's example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four. Worship services in the House --a practice that continued until after the Civil War-- were acceptable to Jefferson because they were nondiscriminatory and voluntary. Preachers of every Protestant denomination appeared. (Catholic priests began officiating in 1826.) As early as January 1806 a female evangelist, Dorothy Ripley, delivered a camp meeting-style exhortation in the House to Jefferson, Vice President Aaron Burr, and a 'crowded audience.' Throughout his administration Jefferson permitted church services in executive branch buildings. The Gospel was also preached in the Supreme Court chambers."

Jefferson's actions may seem surprising because his attitude toward the relation between religion and government is usually thought to have been embodied in his recommendation that there exist 'a wall of separation between church and state.' In that statement, Jefferson was apparently declaring his opposition, as Madison had done in introducing the Bill of Rights, to a 'national' religion. In attending church services on public property, Jefferson and Madison consciously and deliberately were offering symbolic support to religion as a prop for republican government."

So much for separation of church and state!

Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan

I like to cite my first amendment rights: i.e. freedom of speech, if I choose to call it separation of church and state, that I can. I don't need to interject T.J. into any discussions. If one bars the state from choosing one belief from another to become the state church, one separates the function of one's belief from the state, doesn't it? I certainly don't need the federal government telling me my spiritual journey needs to comply to the Mormon church, just because I live in Utah.

There is a great deal of discretion by the individual, which means, that if the representatives of the government (PUBLIC schools), prohibit certain behaviors because the federal government pays for the school, then they call the shots.

"R*******n to tyrants is obedience to God." --Thomas Jefferson: his motto.

Caboose Loc: South Carolina

It doesnt matter who said it, Separation between Church and
State does not exist in the US Constitution and I challenge anyone to find it there.

Forkbassman Loc: Missouri

You are exactly right but it's always brought up by libs, progressives, MSM, ACLU and others to silence Christians. They have no credibility! People hear it so much that they believe it is constitutional.

ddcannady

This can't be reduced to a "for" and "against" argument. In the first place, our Founders were separating themselves from a Christian country ruled by a Christian King based on the Divine Right of Kings which was derived from the New Testament, Romans 13:1-7, which says that governments are ordained by God and that we are required to obey them and not rebel against them. Well, clearly, the Founders discounted this entirely. Further, they enshrined their disobedience in the Preamble to the Constitution by stating that this government was ordained and established by "We the people". I am a Christian , but the facts are the facts. I believe that the Founders were divinely inspired and brought us all to a greater t***h and a closer relationship with God. The evidence of this is in the blessings accrued by this nation from its founding.

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

Caboose,

Glad to see that you are back to posting regularly, we missed you. I know that you have not been well, and you have been on our personal prayer list for some time. Take care of yourself and keep posting.

Caboose Loc: South Carolina

Thank You very much.