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an attempt to clear up Matthew5:17
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Nov 21, 2014 23:00:43   #
rumitoid
 
King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

This sentence is the rock upon which all that Paul says is built. The New Covenant is announced.

When Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets" it was to ease the Chosen people's troubled hearts over their inability to keep the law. In effect he was saying, "Despite your failure, the messiah is not here to disown you or to punish your failure to keep the covenant." In the next sentence he states that he will, by a perfectly sinless life, "fulfill" their contract. The debt is paid, the Mosaic contract is done. The New Covenant promised in Jeremiah31:31-34 will come to pass at his death. Not before, for his death seals the deal. It is Jesus, not Paul, that ushers in the NC: Paul simply accurately describes it.



Interesting read: http://solochristo.com/theology/nct/ncpromise.htm

Reply
Nov 22, 2014 00:40:01   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
rumitoid wrote:
King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

This sentence is the rock upon which all that Paul says is built. The New Covenant is announced.

When Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets" it was to ease the Chosen people's troubled hearts over their inability to keep the law. In effect he was saying, "Despite your failure, the messiah is not here to disown you or to punish your failure to keep the covenant." In the next sentence he states that he will, by a perfectly sinless life, "fulfill" their contract. The debt is paid, the Mosaic contract is done. The New Covenant promised in Jeremiah31:31-34 will come to pass at his death. Not before, for his death seals the deal. It is Jesus, not Paul, that ushers in the NC: Paul simply accurately describes it.



Interesting read: http://solochristo.com/theology/nct/ncpromise.htm
King James Bible br Think not that I am come to de... (show quote)


Jesus fulfilled the law and nailed it to the cross forever!!

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Nov 22, 2014 00:46:01   #
rumitoid
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Jesus fulfilled the law and nailed it to the cross forever!!


Yes!

Reply
 
 
Nov 22, 2014 06:55:12   #
Forkbassman Loc: Missouri
 
rumitoid wrote:
Yes!


And every knee shall bow and confess Jesus is Lord.

Reply
Nov 22, 2014 11:58:09   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Forkbassman wrote:
And every knee shall bow and confess Jesus is Lord.


Amen!!! :-)

Reply
Nov 23, 2014 03:36:29   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Well, it is true those words were written. Along with many other well selected verses support Jesus' mission. However, saying that what Saul wrote, or actually had his private secretary and traveling companion write over 13 separate books, is only a fraction of the new religion born from the teaching of Saul.

Those that wish to judge the Jewish people, whether or not they are or did live up to the standards of God, should start with their own shortcoming's, that is if you live the law to completeness then judge away! Otherwise, leave it to God and His people to decide.

And when one cherry picks and not read the entire book, well it is like eating the middle of your bread and never tasting the crust all warm with soft sweet butter. Because the rest of that portion pertains to the one thing that Saul taught.....that the commandments no longer held authority. Because it is written: "19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jeremiah31:31-34 Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make [b]a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:[b/]

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Within a Christian's life, they are taught that the bible is all about Jesus, and yes he figures into the meaning of the bible....no doubt. But, what many miss is the Bible is about God and mankind. The bible is about that relationship between God and his creation...mankind. In fact, you might say the central theme of the Bible is “The Relationship.” It’s a relationship that God is determined to make perfect, so we might clarify the meaning of the Bible as “How God is Bringing About The Perfect Relationship.” Virtually all the parts of the Bible can be explained in this.

The one thing in life that matters most is our relationship with God. Early on, the Bible tells us how it was broken. The rest of the Bible tells us how God is restoring it.

The great experiment took place when God freed the Hebrew s***es from Egypt. Here was a people who would appreciate God for freeing them. They would learn. They would love and obey.

God made sure they knew what was expected of them. He spelled it out. If they trusted and obeyed God, they would be blessed. Their harvests would be bountiful. They would have wine to get drunk. They would be victorious in war. They would have no fear of enemies.

On the other hand, if they disobeyed God, their lives would become miserable. Then if their misery didn’t cause them to turn to God, God would make them more miserable yet - and more miserable - and more miserable. You can read about it in Leviticus 26. This is one of the most telling passages in the whole Bible. It explains that by living in God’s way, we keep ourselves in the shower of God’s blessings. If we don’t live in God’s way, then we stop the flow. Is it any wonder, then, that the Ten Commandments are negative? They are warnings. So God worked with the Hebrew people in the desert and in the Promised Land, but that approach didn’t work either. The Hebrew people vacillated between faith and doubt, between obedience and bringing downright disgrace on the Name of God. So God said, “This is never going to work unless I do it Myself.”

So God announced a new plan. The word was given out through Jeremiah and Ezekiel and Joel. God will do something new. The human heart - that which determines the interest and the will - had proven incapable of faithfulness and obedience to God. God will change the human heart.

The word of God came to Jeremiah, saying, “I am going to end the frustration and suffering of humankind in their inability to respond. I will establish the perfect relationship. Humankind will trust and obey, and I will bless them beyond measure. This is how it’s going to happen. I created humankind in my own image. Now I’m going to give more of Myself to them. I will give them of my own animating Spirit. Then they will have my strength and will. They will do the right thing. Then I will bless them, and we will enter the perfect relationship. They shall be my people, and I will be their God, and I will live among them.

rumitoid wrote:
King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

This sentence is the rock upon which all that Paul says is built. The New Covenant is announced.

When Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets" it was to ease the Chosen people's troubled hearts over their inability to keep the law. In effect he was saying, "Despite your failure, the messiah is not here to disown you or to punish your failure to keep the covenant." In the next sentence he states that he will, by a perfectly sinless life, "fulfill" their contract. The debt is paid, the Mosaic contract is done. The New Covenant promised in Jeremiah31:31-34 will come to pass at his death. Not before, for his death seals the deal. It is Jesus, not Paul, that ushers in the NC: Paul simply accurately describes it.

So Rumitoid, which tribe are you from? Does the new promised covenant pertain to you? I would guess that you are not, I would guess that you are goy. And as such, your rules came from Jesus.... Think about it..... Your laws are different, your history is different, your thoughts and rules are different.


Interesting read: http://solochristo.com/theology/nct/ncpromise.htm
King James Bible br Think not that I am come to de... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 23, 2014 21:58:02   #
robby1
 
rumitoid wrote:
King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

This sentence is the rock upon which all that Paul says is built. The New Covenant is announced.

When Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets" it was to ease the Chosen people's troubled hearts over their inability to keep the law. In effect he was saying, "Despite your failure, the messiah is not here to disown you or to punish your failure to keep the covenant." In the next sentence he states that he will, by a perfectly sinless life, "fulfill" their contract. The debt is paid, the Mosaic contract is done. The New Covenant promised in Jeremiah31:31-34 will come to pass at his death. Not before, for his death seals the deal. It is Jesus, not Paul, that ushers in the NC: Paul simply accurately describes it.

Couldn't have said it better.

Interesting read: http://solochristo.com/theology/nct/ncpromise.htm
King James Bible br Think not that I am come to de... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Nov 24, 2014 17:19:34   #
rumitoid
 
[quote=ginnyt]Well, it is true those words were written. Along with many other well selected verses support Jesus' mission. However, saying that what Saul wrote, or actually had his private secretary and traveling companion write over 13 separate books, is only a fraction of the new religion born from the teaching of Saul.

Those that wish to judge the Jewish people, whether or not they are or did live up to the standards of God, should start with their own shortcoming's, that is if you live the law to completeness then judge away! Otherwise, leave it to God and His people to decide.

And when one cherry picks and not read the entire book, well it is like eating the middle of your bread and never tasting the crust all warm with soft sweet butter. Because the rest of that portion pertains to the one thing that Saul taught.....that the commandments no longer held authority. Because it is written: "19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jeremiah31:31-34 Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make [b]a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:[b/]

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Within a Christian's life, they are taught that the bible is all about Jesus, and yes he figures into the meaning of the bible....no doubt. But, what many miss is the Bible is about God and mankind. The bible is about that relationship between God and his creation...mankind. In fact, you might say the central theme of the Bible is “The Relationship.” It’s a relationship that God is determined to make perfect, so we might clarify the meaning of the Bible as “How God is Bringing About The Perfect Relationship.” Virtually all the parts of the Bible can be explained in this.

The one thing in life that matters most is our relationship with God. Early on, the Bible tells us how it was broken. The rest of the Bible tells us how God is restoring it.

The great experiment took place when God freed the Hebrew s***es from Egypt. Here was a people who would appreciate God for freeing them. They would learn. They would love and obey.

God made sure they knew what was expected of them. He spelled it out. If they trusted and obeyed God, they would be blessed. Their harvests would be bountiful. They would have wine to get drunk. They would be victorious in war. They would have no fear of enemies.

On the other hand, if they disobeyed God, their lives would become miserable. Then if their misery didn’t cause them to turn to God, God would make them more miserable yet - and more miserable - and more miserable. You can read about it in Leviticus 26. This is one of the most telling passages in the whole Bible. It explains that by living in God’s way, we keep ourselves in the shower of God’s blessings. If we don’t live in God’s way, then we stop the flow. Is it any wonder, then, that the Ten Commandments are negative? They are warnings. So God worked with the Hebrew people in the desert and in the Promised Land, but that approach didn’t work either. The Hebrew people vacillated between faith and doubt, between obedience and bringing downright disgrace on the Name of God. So God said, “This is never going to work unless I do it Myself.”

So God announced a new plan. The word was given out through Jeremiah and Ezekiel and Joel. God will do something new. The human heart - that which determines the interest and the will - had proven incapable of faithfulness and obedience to God. God will change the human heart.

The word of God came to Jeremiah, saying, “I am going to end the frustration and suffering of humankind in their inability to respond. I will establish the perfect relationship. Humankind will trust and obey, and I will bless them beyond measure. This is how it’s going to happen. I created humankind in my own image. Now I’m going to give more of Myself to them. I will give them of my own animating Spirit. Then they will have my strength and will. They will do the right thing. Then I will bless them, and we will enter the perfect relationship. They shall be my people, and I will be their God, and I will live among them.[/quote]

I always here this argument: cherry-picked verses. Verses pertinent to a certain point must be cherry-picked. This does not mean the whole Bible was not read and studied.

The indication from you seems to be that I am using my interpretation of Mt5:17 to judge the Chosen People. It is clear from the OT's own writers about the repeated shortcomings and failures to keep the Old Covenant and also made clear why: no one is perfect but God. This is true of all humanity. Saying that no soul is perfect is not "judging away" but simply stating the t***h of our condition.

What you quote here is where most get confused: "because the rest of that portion pertains to the one thing that Saul taught.....that the commandments no longer held authority. Because it is written: "19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
What are the commandments referred to in this verse and a number of other times he confronted the priests and scribes? The Two Greatest Commandments. This is illustrated best in the Parable of the Good Samaritan: love of neighbor was forgotten for the show of keeping man-made ordinances. Love is the sum of the law. Not the Mosaic law, which is a covenant, but the law in its essential nature, which is God represented by Christ. Two distinct uses of the word "law."

Reply
Nov 24, 2014 18:03:28   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Say what you need to say. God will judge me and mine. For you........well, you have Paul aka Saul's standards to live up or down to.

rumitoid wrote:
I always here this argument: cherry-picked verses. Verses pertinent to a certain point must be cherry-picked. This does not mean the whole Bible was not read and studied.

The indication from you seems to be that I am using my interpretation of Mt5:17 to judge the Chosen People. It is clear from the OT's own writers about the repeated shortcomings and failures to keep the Old Covenant and also made clear why: no one is perfect but God. This is true of all humanity. Saying that no soul is perfect is not "judging away" but simply stating the t***h of our condition.

What you quote here is where most get confused: "because the rest of that portion pertains to the one thing that Saul taught.....that the commandments no longer held authority. Because it is written: "19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
What are the commandments referred to in this verse and a number of other times he confronted the priests and scribes? The Two Greatest Commandments. This is illustrated best in the Parable of the Good Samaritan: love of neighbor was forgotten for the show of keeping man-made ordinances. Love is the sum of the law. Not the Mosaic law, which is a covenant, but the law in its essential nature, which is God represented by Christ. Two distinct uses of the word "law."
I always here this argument: cherry-picked verses.... (show quote)

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Nov 24, 2014 18:55:03   #
rumitoid
 
ginnyt wrote:
Say what you need to say. God will judge me and mine. For you........well, you have Paul aka Saul's standards to live up or down to.


Paul preached "no standard" and that is central to the New Covenant.

Reply
Nov 24, 2014 19:01:06   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Well I guess that says it all about people who follow Saul.

Good luck with that!
rumitoid wrote:
Paul preached "no standard" and that is central to the New Covenant.

Reply
 
 
Nov 24, 2014 21:01:19   #
robby1
 
ginnyt wrote:
Well I guess that says it all about people who follow Saul.

Good luck with that!


Salvation is based on God's choice of whom He will save. The Bible is just a guide for man to show him that he does know good and evil. Sometimes we practice good and sometimes evil. Jesus was the only man born sinless. He never sinned.

Reply
Nov 24, 2014 21:07:14   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Very true. I think that I am glad to have the Torah and other writings to keep me going in the right direction. I do think that our problems arise, with people who teach that God's Laws do not apply. As Rumitoid, and I assume by the writing of many on OPP, believes "no standard" and that is central to the New Covenant. I think God does hold us to a standard, that is why he provided us with His words.

robby1 wrote:
Salvation is based on God's choice of whom He will save. The Bible is just a guide for man to show him that he does know good and evil. Sometimes we practice good and sometimes evil. Jesus was the only man born sinless. He never sinned.

Reply
Nov 24, 2014 22:32:28   #
rumitoid
 
ginnyt wrote:
Well I guess that says it all about people who follow Saul.

Good luck with that!


Jesus also agreed. "By what standard you judge, so shall you be judged."

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Nov 25, 2014 09:33:36   #
robby1
 
rumitoid wrote:
Jesus also agreed. "By what standard you judge, so shall you be judged."

Jesus laid out plans that we should follow. It is like a father telling his kid not to do something, but the kid does it anyway. We are born with a sin nature so we are good sinners. If we could live like Jesus did and not sin then He wouldn't have had to go to the cross. But there is a certain something that is not in us. That is the self control not to sin. There was a poppa fly and a momma fly and a baby fly that landed on a pile of poop. They ate and ate until they were full. The poppa fly tried to fly but he was to heavy. He saw a broom handle sitting against the wall. He said I will climb up the handle and jump off and fly away. He climbed and jumped and flapped his wings and fell to his death. The momma fly said I am lighter than the poppa fly so I will climb the handle and jump off and fly away. The momma fly jumped and fell to her death. The baby fly said I am the lightest so I will jump off the handle and fly. so the baby jumped off flapped his wings and fell to his death. The moral of the story is, never fly off the handle when you are full of s**t.

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