robertv3

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/24/green-technology-precision-fermentation-farming

"One paper estimates that precision fermentation using methanol needs 1,700 times less land than the most efficient agricultural means of producing protein: soy grown in the US. This suggests it might use, respectively, 138,000 and 157,000 times less land than the least efficient means: beef and lamb production. Depending on the electricity source and recycling rates, it can also enable radical reductions in water use and greenhouse gas emissions. Because the process is contained, it avoids the spillover of waste and chemicals into the wider world caused by farming."

"could be the last major opportunity to prevent Earth systems collapse"

"all the nations most vulnerable to food insecurity are rich in something else: sunlight. This is the feedstock required to sustain food production based on hydrogen and methanol."

ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

You can have your soy. I'll stick with meat and vegetables, thank you!

robertv3

You're welcome to all the meat and vegetables you can get. I'll take a livable planet (made the more likely if you will go someplace else with your meat and vegetables diet). And "soy" is a misnomer here.

Jlw Loc: Wisconsin

If God didn't intend for animals to be eaten, why did he make them out of meat

Rose42

I knew it. A quick check showed some of this is driven by animal rightists. No surprise. Animal rights is ‘mental illness masquerading as philisophy’. This isn’t about saving the planet.

‘Neophobia’. That made me chuckle.

robertv3

I hadn't noticed the word "neophobia" before. I don't know what that word means. "Fear of new things", or "new fear"?

"Animal rights" thinking is a "mental illness"? No. Emphatically no.

Rose42

It absolutely is. Perhaps you confuse it with animal welfare. Animal welfarists are all for reaponsible stewardship of animals but they don’t make the mistake of putting them on par with humans

Even one of the fathers of animal rights - Tom Regan - never went that far. Todays animal rightists want to ban all use of animals (including having them as pets) and force everyone to be vegan which is not the optimal diet for humans

You bet its mental illness. Not necessarily by those tricked into thinking they’re working for animal welfare but those at the helm of PETA, the ‘Humane’ Society of the US and others.

robertv3

What I mean by animal rights is only somewhat similar, not identical, with what you mean by animal rights.

Having a right does not imply being put on a par with humans.

Before your posts in this thread, I had never heard the term "animal rightists". I see your description of animal rightists. Those animal rightists as portrayed in your description are too extreme.

Not to stray too far, too long, from the Original Post: The main point about "precision fermentation" is not about animal rights nor about animal welfare. The main point about precision fermentation is about efficient and sustainable food production. It does _also_ have the important benefit of animal welfare or, as I would also call it, animal rights.

Animal rights is the more interesting topic, even though it was not the main idea of the Original Post.

There is a book you might like, by Lierre Keith; the title is _The Vegetarian Myth_. After being a strict vegan she concluded that it was better to eat some meat. As for me, I think a mixed diet, with much more vegetables than meat (maybe very little meat), is best, for now. Another even more important thing in the context of the book _The Vegetarian Myth_ is the idea that "agriculture" is ruinous. But she is referring to big monoculture agriculture, not small variegated farms worked by individuals.

K*****g an animal for necessary food is (or can be) much different from factory farming. A searing book about factory farming, by the way, is _The Jungle_ by Upton Sinclair.

ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

I think that we are in pretty close agreement on a number of issues. I try to avoid as much as possible any type of factory farm or industrialized farming method (CAFO -Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations). I think that the comments on Animal Welfare in the prior posts are spot on.

I think you would find the Mercola article on Regenerative Farming for Health to be in accordance with both our view on this subect. As far as evvironmental health is concerned, check out the following comment:

"Regenerative Farming Restores the Land

Harris tells Rogan that he has the utmost respect for vegans and vegetarians who choose not to eat meat because they oppose eating animals. But he'll give you an ear full if you tell him you won't eat meat because it's destroying the planet. When farming is done regeneratively, it will help to restore the land and even improve the damage done by industrial methods. And animals are an integral, and necessary, part of the restorative process.

"We are sequestering 3.5 pounds of carbon dioxide equivalent for every pound of grass fed beef we sell. Ironically, the same environmental engineers did an analysis on Impossible Burgers," Harris said. "They're emitting 3.5 pounds of carbon dioxide equivalent."

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2022/11/26/will-harris-on-regenerative-agriculture.aspx?ui=0b7483587eabb187df52f7c1dc5fa5501e815a97b9f533f43cacc6655f9bbd9e&sd=20200515&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1ReadMore&cid=20221126_HL2&cid=DM1293969&bid=1654430708

EmilyD

I know which one I want for dinner....

...

ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

son of witless

It sure sounds like the typical liberal g****l w*****g horse manure we have all become accustomed to for the last 3 decades. If this horse manure was viable it would be producing new inexpensive sources of food that would be competing with conventional farm produce. So where are they ?

robertv3

"Mercola article": I read it just now, and find it very good.

There are a very few products in the grocery store labeled "humanely raised". I eat sausage, the package of which says that.

I'm suspicious of GMO's (genetically modified organisms) and prefer to avoid them. But I'm not ready to rule them out. The "precision fermentation" of the Original Post might have some risk similar to that of GMOs, I guess. GMOs are a little like nuclear power plants, in that they're good but only if they're designed, and managed, _really_ well. That's just my quick opinion about GMOs (and nuclear power plants).

At a Farmers' Market several years ago I encountered grass-fed beef from Prather Ranch. So I bought that for a while but it's hard to get where I am now. I see the article you cite has a way to look up sources of grass-fed meat.

About the "Impossible Burgers": I believe what the article says about them (but it's the first I'd heard it). The article (the one that you cite) is generally all-around convincing. I didn't find any fault with it.

ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

Glad that you found it helpful and informative. Check out the Cornucopia Institute, and it's newsletter and "Scorecards". It is a good source of information on the organic and regenerative farming industry, which the large agribusinesses are trying to co-opt. Unfortunately, our USDA is complicit in this process.
https://www.cornucopia.org/scorecards

Rose42

Its not what I mean, its what it is. There is a huge difference between animal rightists and animal welfarists. The former tries to masquerade as the latter



Animal rights IS extreme. Animal welfare is not



Animal rights is not animal welfare. The former’s end game is no more animals for anything - including pets and food. This is well documented.



I’ve been a vegan but lasted less than a year. Its not for me. I read the first chapter of her book and have never bought into the idea that those who are vegetarian or vegan do it out of compassion. I’ve been around too many who are just downright nasty.

The book does sound interesting. I will have to check it out.

"

I used to be an animal rightist and am well acquainted with what they call factory farming. I’d like to see an end to it but they’re trying to squeeze out the smaller producers and the government enables that

K*****g an animal for yourself to eat is much different. So are the small operations as opposed to the big feedlots. I try to get my meat from those