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Eternal Damnation in a Lake of Fire?
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Nov 17, 2022 10:52:47   #
Alan Finch
 
I have spent several years in putting together a 32 page document that Biblically proves that God is not going to send anybody to burn in a Lake of Fire for all eternity. I have put forth a great deal of effort in trying to leave no stone un-turned in presenting the Biblical truth on this subject. The document is much too long to post on this site. If anybody would like a copy of the document, just email me at: (candy33alan@aol.com) and I will email you a copy.

Below is a small sample of what I share in my 32 page document:

I spent several years diligently searching the Scriptures to uncover what really made Biblical sense in regards to God's true message to us of what really is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ, which I did not properly understand for most of my many years as a Christian.

My 1st 38 years as a Christian, I believed the unscriptural teaching about that there is going to be eternal torment for multitudes and multitudes of people. I then began to seriously question that teaching. I then decided to do an in-depth study of the Bible concerning this issue, and the Scriptures revealed to me that I had believed a horrible lie for all those years.

The Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire, but is a metaphor for a Spiritual Lake of Fire from God’s Spirit for the purpose of “RESTORATION.” God is a God of “ETERNAL RESTORATION,” not a God of “eternal destruction.”
In Acts 3:21 God promises that there shall be a “RESTORATION” of ALL things! What is there not to understand about this wonderful promise that God has made to us?

The overall theme of the Bible is that God’s ultimate plan for ALL mankind is to restore, not destroy in an eternal Lake of Fire or eternal annihilation!

In John 12:32 JESUS clearly states that He is going to draw ALL people to Himself! Not a portion of mankind, but ALL of mankind.

In John 6:44 JESUS clearly states that nobody can come to Him except the Father draws that person to Him. For those who are true Christians, WE MUST NOT KID OURSELVES IN THE FACT THAT WE ONLY CAME TO JESUS BECAUSE GOD’S SPIRIT DREW US TO JESUS!

In the present, and in the future, God has His own timing when He will draw each individual to Himself.

Addressing the issue of the belief in eternal annihilation, the Lord clearly tells us in Ecclesiastes 3:11 that He has planted eternity in our hearts. God has made us living Spirits. It is impossible for our Spirit to be destroyed.

GOD HAS NOT FAILED IN HIS ORIGINAL PLAN FOR ALL OF MANKIND WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ETERNAL TORMENT OR ETERNAL ANNIHILATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO FAIL IN ANYTHING!

God worked out His plan in past Ages, God is working out His plan in the present Age that we are now living in, and God will work out His plan in future Ages to come.

I have spent the last several years in Biblically expounding in a 32 page document that I have put together on the truth of there being no eternal suffering in a Lake of Fire for anyone. I have just explained the real LOVE of God that today’s Church just simply does not seem to grasp.

After spending several years of diving deep into the Scriptures to uncover the Biblical truth on this subject, I would like to share these Biblical truths with others so that they can experience the same joy that I experienced which set me free from what I had previously believed for most of my life.

Reply
Nov 19, 2022 18:59:25   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Actually, Alan,

You seem to have overlooked the free will to choose which God gave to mankind. I saw no mention of the unfortunate choice made by Adam and Eve... and the dilemma all mankind has faced ever since because of our propensity to indulge our "sin nature."

The theme and true message of the Bible is the need for repentance, and that Salvation/Reconciliation - peace with God is a free gift from God, available only through God's grace, applied through the conduit of individual faith in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary.

Jesus said He came that we might have life and have it more abundantly.

As you've been studying the Bible for a multitude of years, I am sure you are familiar with the verifying verses.

In Acts 3:21, God is promising the Jews that Jesus will fulfill in His 2nd coming, when He appears as the Lion of Judah, the completion of the messianic promises and prophecies specifically intended for them, that were unfulfilled in His 1st appearance.

Our nation has been blessed because the Bible is still readily available in the United States.

Alan Finch wrote:
I have spent several years in putting together a 32 page document that Biblically proves that God is not going to send anybody to burn in a Lake of Fire for all eternity. I have put forth a great deal of effort in trying to leave no stone un-turned in presenting the Biblical truth on this subject. The document is much too long to post on this site. If anybody would like a copy of the document, just email me at: (candy33alan@aol.com) and I will email you a copy.

Below is a small sample of what I share in my 32 page document:

I spent several years diligently searching the Scriptures to uncover what really made Biblical sense in regards to God's true message to us of what really is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ, which I did not properly understand for most of my many years as a Christian.

My 1st 38 years as a Christian, I believed the unscriptural teaching about that there is going to be eternal torment for multitudes and multitudes of people. I then began to seriously question that teaching. I then decided to do an in-depth study of the Bible concerning this issue, and the Scriptures revealed to me that I had believed a horrible lie for all those years.

The Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire, but is a metaphor for a Spiritual Lake of Fire from God’s Spirit for the purpose of “RESTORATION.” God is a God of “ETERNAL RESTORATION,” not a God of “eternal destruction.”
In Acts 3:21 God promises that there shall be a “RESTORATION” of ALL things! What is there not to understand about this wonderful promise that God has made to us?

The overall theme of the Bible is that God’s ultimate plan for ALL mankind is to restore, not destroy in an eternal Lake of Fire or eternal annihilation!

In John 12:32 JESUS clearly states that He is going to draw ALL people to Himself! Not a portion of mankind, but ALL of mankind.

In John 6:44 JESUS clearly states that nobody can come to Him except the Father draws that person to Him. For those who are true Christians, WE MUST NOT KID OURSELVES IN THE FACT THAT WE ONLY CAME TO JESUS BECAUSE GOD’S SPIRIT DREW US TO JESUS!

In the present, and in the future, God has His own timing when He will draw each individual to Himself.

Addressing the issue of the belief in eternal annihilation, the Lord clearly tells us in Ecclesiastes 3:11 that He has planted eternity in our hearts. God has made us living Spirits. It is impossible for our Spirit to be destroyed.

GOD HAS NOT FAILED IN HIS ORIGINAL PLAN FOR ALL OF MANKIND WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ETERNAL TORMENT OR ETERNAL ANNIHILATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO FAIL IN ANYTHING!

God worked out His plan in past Ages, God is working out His plan in the present Age that we are now living in, and God will work out His plan in future Ages to come.

I have spent the last several years in Biblically expounding in a 32 page document that I have put together on the truth of there being no eternal suffering in a Lake of Fire for anyone. I have just explained the real LOVE of God that today’s Church just simply does not seem to grasp.

After spending several years of diving deep into the Scriptures to uncover the Biblical truth on this subject, I would like to share these Biblical truths with others so that they can experience the same joy that I experienced which set me free from what I had previously believed for most of my life.
I have spent several years in putting together a 3... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 19, 2022 20:12:28   #
Alan Finch
 
As I clearly stated in my comment, JESUS clearly stated in John 6:44 that no person can come to Him unless the Father draws Him to JESUS. You only came to JESUS as a result of God's Spirit drawing you to JESUS. A large portion of the human race never had the Spirit of God draw them to JESUS. Also there are many who never even heard of JESUS. God is certainly not going to send them to eternal damnation in a Lake of For for ALL eternity!

I am always amazed that people will not even request a copy of my article. I did not spend several years in putting together a 32 page document that is full of nonsense. I did not just give 2 or 3 Bible verses. It is a 32 page document that is filled with much Scriptural evidence.

I have posted comments on a number of websites. There have been a number of people who have requested a copy of my document and after reading my article, they emailed me back thanking me for giving them clearer understanding on this topic. I even had a retired Pastor email me back thanking me for the article. He stated that it helped him a great deal.

Below is another small sample of a number of very uplifting feedback from people who have read my document. I could go on and on.

*Good evening Mr. Alan Finch. Can you please send me a copy of your article... "What is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ?"

I read it on Facebook but would like to print and read it again. It's fascinating and brought me a lot of joy/understanding that I haven't had in quite a while. Thank you, Sincerely Christina

In my 46 years as a Christian, I have come to realize that many Christians who are presented with Biblical truth, just simply will refuse to accept it as truth. I have learned to not concern myself with their unbelief. Instead I take great joy in those who recognize the contents of my document as Biblical truth.

On the Cross JESUS set us free from the penalty of eternal damnation. JESUS said that His truth will set us free. However, many Christians are actually in Spiritual bondage from accepting a number of false doctrines as truth that are being taught in the main-stream Christian Church today.

Reply
 
 
Nov 20, 2022 09:57:55   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Jesus said, “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46). In this same sentence, Christ uses the same Greek word “aionos” (αἰώνιος, - agelong, eternal, unending) to describe the duration of both Heaven and Hell. Thus, according to our Lord and Savior, some will consciously experience Heaven forever, and some must consciously experience Hell forever.

Should those who seek spiritual truth search out the words of Jesus Christ or a supposed "new truth," that is claimed to have been ferreted out 2,000 years after the Canon of Scripture was closed with an admonition in Jesus' Revelation to the Apostle John, that "nothing is to be added to or subtracted from the completed Word of God?"

The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin individually, and the need for repentance through faith in Jesus' completed work on the cross.

Where do you envision this "main-stream Christian Church" being today?

According to 1 Timothy 2:4, God desires that all man would be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth, however many will not choose to do so.

Whether or not we accept God's gift of Salvation is up to each individual, for we all have been given free will. The Holy Spirit does not override our free will, nor does God save us through a particular church congregation or denomination, but according to our faith in Jesus' propitiatory death and subsequent resurrection to the fullness of life.

Alan Finch wrote:
As I clearly stated in my comment, JESUS clearly stated in John 6:44 that no person can come to Him unless the Father draws Him to JESUS. You only came to JESUS as a result of God's Spirit drawing you to JESUS. A large portion of the human race never had the Spirit of God draw them to JESUS. Also there are many who never even heard of JESUS. God is certainly not going to send them to eternal damnation in a Lake of For for ALL eternity!

I am always amazed that people will not even request a copy of my article. I did not spend several years in putting together a 32 page document that is full of nonsense. I did not just give 2 or 3 Bible verses. It is a 32 page document that is filled with much Scriptural evidence.

I have posted comments on a number of websites. There have been a number of people who have requested a copy of my document and after reading my article, they emailed me back thanking me for giving them clearer understanding on this topic. I even had a retired Pastor email me back thanking me for the article. He stated that it helped him a great deal.

Below is another small sample of a number of very uplifting feedback from people who have read my document. I could go on and on.

*Good evening Mr. Alan Finch. Can you please send me a copy of your article... "What is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ?"

I read it on Facebook but would like to print and read it again. It's fascinating and brought me a lot of joy/understanding that I haven't had in quite a while. Thank you, Sincerely Christina

In my 46 years as a Christian, I have come to realize that many Christians who are presented with Biblical truth, just simply will refuse to accept it as truth. I have learned to not concern myself with their unbelief. Instead I take great joy in those who recognize the contents of my document as Biblical truth.

On the Cross JESUS set us free from the penalty of eternal damnation. JESUS said that His truth will set us free. However, many Christians are actually in Spiritual bondage from accepting a number of false doctrines as truth that are being taught in the main-stream Christian Church today.
As I clearly stated in my comment, JESUS clearly s... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 20, 2022 10:43:48   #
Alan Finch
 
Below, I thank God for sending me these Christians who have hearing ears. As I have stated before, I have learned that you can present Scriptural truth to people until you are blue in the face, and they will still refuse to change their position.

I was a Christian for 38 years before I began to seriously question what is being taught in the Church today and is excepted by most Christians as being Biblical truth about eternal damnation in a Lake of Fire. I then began to do a very in-depth study of the Scriptures. What I discovered in the Scriptures was much different than what is being taught in the Church today.

I will not be responding to your replies anymore. Nothing is going to convince you otherwise. That is why that you have no interest in reading my 32 page document.

*Good morning Alan,

Your wonderful comment about universalism greatly touched my heart. My eyes have only recently been opened to that sublime truth and the way you stated the case was music to my ears - and my heart. Excellent teaching. Thank you very much.

I just happened upon your comment in my search for more understanding about the sweet truth and extremely "Good News" about God's intention to eventually gather ALL of us back to Himself. And your comment did indeed increase my understanding of this marvelous subject, so I'm in your debt.

I don't think I'm dreaming when I envision the entire world being transformed by this teaching. I hope to follow your lead, Alan, and play a part in spreading this "heretical" teaching, because I believe that it is anything but.

The heresy is the traditional teaching of damnationism. What a slur upon God's loving character. I seriously have to question myself for ever having bought into such insanity. And for sooo long.

Thank you again, Alan, for your balanced and well thought out comment. You have enriched me. Robert. ……………………………………………………………………………

*Hi Alan,

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts in the comments section. And thanks for sharing the context and validation for writing it as well.

I have been struggling quite a bit with the concept of Hell and found your comments right at a time when I was deciding that I simply have to believe that we must have understood something wrong. I simply can't fit eternal pain for no other reason than punishment with my experience of unconditional love. It doesn’t compute and I believe it is keeping a lot of people away from God.

With blessings,
Teemu Mäki-Patola
…………………………………………………………………………….

*Good evening Mr. Alan Finch. Can you please send me a copy of your article... "What is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ?"

I read it on Facebook but would like to print and read it again. It's fascinating and brought me a lot of joy/understanding that I haven't had in quite a while. Thank you, Sincerely Christina

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Alan,

I enjoyed your article and it has confirmed so much for me. Thanks!

"As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." -Jesus Christ-

Alec Martin
Fatherhood Initiative

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Hello Alan, I read your comment on the “Hell in the Bible” post on branzenchurch.com and would like to accept your offer of a copy of the complete writing that you’ve done on the subject. I have been wrestling with the subject of hell for a while now but still have some unanswered questions. It sounds like your writings may be helpful to me as I continue to work through this.

Thanks for all the work you’ve done!
Blessings, Patti
…………………………………………………………………………….

*Thank you so much for your knowledge and commitment to the good fight.
Randy Brasier
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Please send me an e copy.

Thank you. Very enlightening. I found your insights refreshing. Well done.

Robert Bondurant
…………………………………………………………………………….

Could you please send me a copy of your article on Hell?

I have been struggling with this issue throughout my life but especially in the last 17 and 1/2 months. As my Dad died in September 2016!.......

Blessings,
Heidi

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Dear Alan, I am requesting your article on hell as I saw your comment on Brazen Church , com. I have been struggling in my search for biblical truth for quite some time and the more I search the more confusion I am experiencing. I keep praying, but still tortured by confusion. I am so turned off by main stream Christianity. I am feeling so desperate for truth. Help. Thanks for the opportunity to benefit from your knowledge.

Raven

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*From: Nicholas Diedrich

Hey, I was reading your message on crossexamined.org and was hoping to get a link to the 22 page article you were talking about. I found your message really interesting and would like to learn more. Thank you.

I just finished the article. Wow! What a powerful message! I have always had severe doubts about eternal damnation. Thank you for taking the time to research and write your article and for sending it to me. It really has renewed my faith in the scriptures and sparked my interest to learn more. I hope to hear back from you.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Thank you so much. I was a pastor for years (l'm 68 now) and l preached and taught ECT. I always struggled with it as it violated my conscience and seemed inconsistent with the attributes and nature of God. As l enter the winter season of life l find this doctrine not giving me any peace--no assurance in the final season of life. It has shrouded what l once preached as "good news". I began to question if we've had 2000 years of bad interpretation concerning Hell and how God intends to use it. I came across your article and it has been very helpful. Ron

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Thank you Alan!

I just read it and sent a copy to my dad. It's wonderful. God bless you!

Sarah

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Thank you Alan, Your article is fantastic.

James Franklin
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Alan,

Thank you for this! I read this whole article yesterday afternoon and it blew my mind and heart wide open. Your time and diligence in writing this is appreciated and has impacted me deeply. Yesterday morning I woke up with the words, “THE WHOLE WORLD HAS TO KNOW”, echoing in my soul. I didn’t know what this meant but was on the lookout and shortly after came across your email. I believe with my whole heart what I heard yesterday morning from Spirit was directed towards the truths that you highlighted in your article. This is very big news and I look forward to diving more deeply into understanding more. Thank you again for your time, and for getting back to me! I am sharing your article with many friends already. Stay faithful, your voice is heard and your seeking heart is ever appreciated!

In Him, Kelsi
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Dear Alan,

Thank you so much for this article, it has been extremely helpful and a great encouragement to my wife and me. Like you, we have been Christians for about forty years and only recently (I can't believe it took so long) began to feel extremely uncomfortable about the idea of an eternal hell of conscious torment and suffering for unbelievers. What happens is, I think, a bit like the fairy tale by Hans Christian Anderson, "The Emperor's New Clothes". The Emperor is actually naked but everyone exclaims what an elegant and beautiful outfit he is wearing because they've been told that only intelligent, sophisticated people can appreciate the subtle quality of the suit. No-one dares state the obvious until a small child shouts out that he's not wearing anything at all. It's like that in the church today with so many of the things you've written about in your excellent article. It's time to wake up.
Have a great week and I pray for you that 2021 will be a wonderful year of peace and ever-deepening intimacy with our beautiful Saviour and Lord, Jesus.

Graham
…………………………………………………………………………….

*Hi Alan

Just a quick note to say thank you very much for your paper, it was an incredibly interesting read.
I hadn’t really studied what was installed for us in the afterlife as I presumed it would be Sheol for the unbelievers and unfaithful; the ones strong in Christ and the martyrs, I believed would rule and reign with Jesus after the millennium but with your thorough explanations, I now know the former is not true, quite a revelation for me and will now go back over the New testament to gain a clearer understanding. I will also go back over your paper for a more in depth look.

Thanks once again, I’m very glad I came across your comments or was I lead? Bless you and your wife in Phoenix, from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.

Regards, Tim Rogers
……………………………………………………………………

*To: you

Awesome article, you put a lot of time and effort into it and it was truly a joy to read.

Thanks,
Dewayne

…………………………………………………………………………….


*Hi Alan,

Thank you for responding. I read your paper once today. I thought it was very clear, concise, and to the point. A couple of times a question would pop in my head, and would be answered as I read further.

…………………………………………………………………………….


*This is great, thank you so much! It will help my future studies tremendously. Peace and blessings brother Alan.

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Hi Alan,

It has taken me longer than I wanted to find the time to get through the article you sent me, in a thoughtful way. Finally finished it today, and it just makes so much sense to me, and aligns with my view of God and his purpose and his heart towards his people.

I’m so glad I “happened” across your comments on the article I read!

…………………………………………………………………………….

*I finished reading your article and taking notes. I’m new to this topic and have to say, it was amazing and eye-opening for me. I am sooo thankful for all of your hard work.

Thank you! Thank you! And may God continue to bless you and your family,
Gayle

…………………………………………………………………………….

*I did read your article, and it definitely brought some peace to my heart, always thought that the idea of Hell doesn't make much sense.

.....................................................................................................................

Alan,

Thank you for these wonderful insights!
Ann

…………………………………………………………………………….

This was excellent, Alan--thanks for putting it together and for sharing! I am inclined to agree with you--your biblical references and your arguments are very persuasive.

Thanks Alan!
-Sean

…………………………………………………………………………….

Thanks Alan! I read through the comments--very uplifting indeed! I think you're definitely doing the Lord's work, it's much appreciated. I hope somehow, someday, this teaching becomes more mainstream...

All the best,
Sean

…………………………………………………………………………….

Brother Alan,

Wowwwwwwww Hallelujah! 🙌🏼Hallelujah!🙌🏼 Hallelujah!🙌🏼 To God be all the glory for your faithfulness in spreading the truth of the Gospel. This is indeed a topic that has tugged on my heart very strongly. I feel led to unveil the truth of after death and the hellfire doctrine. For so long you hear the doctrine of burning in eternal Hellfire being spread from generation to generation. I myself was taught that growing up and still hear it at funerals and in many teachings. I have many studies on the origins of this teaching and I'm sure the truth revealed to you by Holy Spirit will be so beneficial in my study. I am so so very grateful, and stand in awe of God for this divine connection.

May you and your ministry be Blessed beyond all measure. May this teaching spread rapidly so the truth be revealed to the masses. In Christ Jesus Mighty Name.

Thank you so very much

Peace and Blessings
Your Sister in Christ, Edna

……………………………………………………………………

This is great, thank you so much!

Perry

Reply
Nov 20, 2022 21:58:33   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Alan Finch wrote:
Below, I thank God for sending me these Christians who have hearing ears. As I have stated before, I have learned that you can present Scriptural truth to people until you are blue in the face, and they will still refuse to change their position.

I was a Christian for 38 years before I began to seriously question what is being taught in the Church today and is excepted by most Christians as being Biblical truth about eternal damnation in a Lake of Fire. I then began to do a very in-depth study of the Scriptures. What I discovered in the Scriptures was much different than what is being taught in the Church today.

I will not be responding to your replies anymore. Nothing is going to convince you otherwise. That is why that you have no interest in reading my 32 page document.

*Good morning Alan,

Your wonderful comment about universalism greatly touched my heart. My eyes have only recently been opened to that sublime truth and the way you stated the case was music to my ears - and my heart. Excellent teaching. Thank you very much.

I just happened upon your comment in my search for more understanding about the sweet truth and extremely "Good News" about God's intention to eventually gather ALL of us back to Himself. And your comment did indeed increase my understanding of this marvelous subject, so I'm in your debt.

I don't think I'm dreaming when I envision the entire world being transformed by this teaching. I hope to follow your lead, Alan, and play a part in spreading this "heretical" teaching, because I believe that it is anything but.

The heresy is the traditional teaching of damnationism. What a slur upon God's loving character. I seriously have to question myself for ever having bought into such insanity. And for sooo long.

Thank you again, Alan, for your balanced and well thought out comment. You have enriched me. Robert. ……………………………………………………………………………

*Hi Alan,

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts in the comments section. And thanks for sharing the context and validation for writing it as well.

I have been struggling quite a bit with the concept of Hell and found your comments right at a time when I was deciding that I simply have to believe that we must have understood something wrong. I simply can't fit eternal pain for no other reason than punishment with my experience of unconditional love. It doesn’t compute and I believe it is keeping a lot of people away from God.

With blessings,
Teemu Mäki-Patola
…………………………………………………………………………….

*Good evening Mr. Alan Finch. Can you please send me a copy of your article... "What is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ?"

I read it on Facebook but would like to print and read it again. It's fascinating and brought me a lot of joy/understanding that I haven't had in quite a while. Thank you, Sincerely Christina

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Alan,

I enjoyed your article and it has confirmed so much for me. Thanks!

"As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." -Jesus Christ-

Alec Martin
Fatherhood Initiative

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Hello Alan, I read your comment on the “Hell in the Bible” post on branzenchurch.com and would like to accept your offer of a copy of the complete writing that you’ve done on the subject. I have been wrestling with the subject of hell for a while now but still have some unanswered questions. It sounds like your writings may be helpful to me as I continue to work through this.

Thanks for all the work you’ve done!
Blessings, Patti
…………………………………………………………………………….

*Thank you so much for your knowledge and commitment to the good fight.
Randy Brasier
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Please send me an e copy.

Thank you. Very enlightening. I found your insights refreshing. Well done.

Robert Bondurant
…………………………………………………………………………….

Could you please send me a copy of your article on Hell?

I have been struggling with this issue throughout my life but especially in the last 17 and 1/2 months. As my Dad died in September 2016!.......

Blessings,
Heidi

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Dear Alan, I am requesting your article on hell as I saw your comment on Brazen Church , com. I have been struggling in my search for biblical truth for quite some time and the more I search the more confusion I am experiencing. I keep praying, but still tortured by confusion. I am so turned off by main stream Christianity. I am feeling so desperate for truth. Help. Thanks for the opportunity to benefit from your knowledge.

Raven

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*From: Nicholas Diedrich

Hey, I was reading your message on crossexamined.org and was hoping to get a link to the 22 page article you were talking about. I found your message really interesting and would like to learn more. Thank you.

I just finished the article. Wow! What a powerful message! I have always had severe doubts about eternal damnation. Thank you for taking the time to research and write your article and for sending it to me. It really has renewed my faith in the scriptures and sparked my interest to learn more. I hope to hear back from you.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Thank you so much. I was a pastor for years (l'm 68 now) and l preached and taught ECT. I always struggled with it as it violated my conscience and seemed inconsistent with the attributes and nature of God. As l enter the winter season of life l find this doctrine not giving me any peace--no assurance in the final season of life. It has shrouded what l once preached as "good news". I began to question if we've had 2000 years of bad interpretation concerning Hell and how God intends to use it. I came across your article and it has been very helpful. Ron

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Thank you Alan!

I just read it and sent a copy to my dad. It's wonderful. God bless you!

Sarah

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Thank you Alan, Your article is fantastic.

James Franklin
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Alan,

Thank you for this! I read this whole article yesterday afternoon and it blew my mind and heart wide open. Your time and diligence in writing this is appreciated and has impacted me deeply. Yesterday morning I woke up with the words, “THE WHOLE WORLD HAS TO KNOW”, echoing in my soul. I didn’t know what this meant but was on the lookout and shortly after came across your email. I believe with my whole heart what I heard yesterday morning from Spirit was directed towards the truths that you highlighted in your article. This is very big news and I look forward to diving more deeply into understanding more. Thank you again for your time, and for getting back to me! I am sharing your article with many friends already. Stay faithful, your voice is heard and your seeking heart is ever appreciated!

In Him, Kelsi
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

*Dear Alan,

Thank you so much for this article, it has been extremely helpful and a great encouragement to my wife and me. Like you, we have been Christians for about forty years and only recently (I can't believe it took so long) began to feel extremely uncomfortable about the idea of an eternal hell of conscious torment and suffering for unbelievers. What happens is, I think, a bit like the fairy tale by Hans Christian Anderson, "The Emperor's New Clothes". The Emperor is actually naked but everyone exclaims what an elegant and beautiful outfit he is wearing because they've been told that only intelligent, sophisticated people can appreciate the subtle quality of the suit. No-one dares state the obvious until a small child shouts out that he's not wearing anything at all. It's like that in the church today with so many of the things you've written about in your excellent article. It's time to wake up.
Have a great week and I pray for you that 2021 will be a wonderful year of peace and ever-deepening intimacy with our beautiful Saviour and Lord, Jesus.

Graham
…………………………………………………………………………….

*Hi Alan

Just a quick note to say thank you very much for your paper, it was an incredibly interesting read.
I hadn’t really studied what was installed for us in the afterlife as I presumed it would be Sheol for the unbelievers and unfaithful; the ones strong in Christ and the martyrs, I believed would rule and reign with Jesus after the millennium but with your thorough explanations, I now know the former is not true, quite a revelation for me and will now go back over the New testament to gain a clearer understanding. I will also go back over your paper for a more in depth look.

Thanks once again, I’m very glad I came across your comments or was I lead? Bless you and your wife in Phoenix, from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.

Regards, Tim Rogers
……………………………………………………………………

*To: you

Awesome article, you put a lot of time and effort into it and it was truly a joy to read.

Thanks,
Dewayne

…………………………………………………………………………….


*Hi Alan,

Thank you for responding. I read your paper once today. I thought it was very clear, concise, and to the point. A couple of times a question would pop in my head, and would be answered as I read further.

…………………………………………………………………………….


*This is great, thank you so much! It will help my future studies tremendously. Peace and blessings brother Alan.

…………………………………………………………………………….

*Hi Alan,

It has taken me longer than I wanted to find the time to get through the article you sent me, in a thoughtful way. Finally finished it today, and it just makes so much sense to me, and aligns with my view of God and his purpose and his heart towards his people.

I’m so glad I “happened” across your comments on the article I read!

…………………………………………………………………………….

*I finished reading your article and taking notes. I’m new to this topic and have to say, it was amazing and eye-opening for me. I am sooo thankful for all of your hard work.

Thank you! Thank you! And may God continue to bless you and your family,
Gayle

…………………………………………………………………………….

*I did read your article, and it definitely brought some peace to my heart, always thought that the idea of Hell doesn't make much sense.

.....................................................................................................................

Alan,

Thank you for these wonderful insights!
Ann

…………………………………………………………………………….

This was excellent, Alan--thanks for putting it together and for sharing! I am inclined to agree with you--your biblical references and your arguments are very persuasive.

Thanks Alan!
-Sean

…………………………………………………………………………….

Thanks Alan! I read through the comments--very uplifting indeed! I think you're definitely doing the Lord's work, it's much appreciated. I hope somehow, someday, this teaching becomes more mainstream...

All the best,
Sean

…………………………………………………………………………….

Brother Alan,

Wowwwwwwww Hallelujah! 🙌🏼Hallelujah!🙌🏼 Hallelujah!🙌🏼 To God be all the glory for your faithfulness in spreading the truth of the Gospel. This is indeed a topic that has tugged on my heart very strongly. I feel led to unveil the truth of after death and the hellfire doctrine. For so long you hear the doctrine of burning in eternal Hellfire being spread from generation to generation. I myself was taught that growing up and still hear it at funerals and in many teachings. I have many studies on the origins of this teaching and I'm sure the truth revealed to you by Holy Spirit will be so beneficial in my study. I am so so very grateful, and stand in awe of God for this divine connection.

May you and your ministry be Blessed beyond all measure. May this teaching spread rapidly so the truth be revealed to the masses. In Christ Jesus Mighty Name.

Thank you so very much

Peace and Blessings
Your Sister in Christ, Edna

……………………………………………………………………

This is great, thank you so much!

Perry
Below, I thank God for sending me these Christians... (show quote)

You are leading a lot of souls on a path straight to hell! It's called apostasy and is clearly prophesied in the Bible.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Reply
Nov 21, 2022 04:50:04   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Alan, Scriptural truth is found in the Bible, very little of it can be captured in a 32 page booklet.

That would hardly qualify as a Wannabee Cult.

From Day One as a Christian, I knew that the words of the church's minister are to be judged by what the Bible says, never is the reverse true. We are to be Bereans (Acts 17:10-15).

If it took you 38 years to realize that, you, Sir, are a slow study.

The shortest bible in my library has 1,550 pages, the longest study bible over 3,000 pages.

The phrase the whole counsel of God is found in Acts 20:27. In his farewell speech to the elders of the Ephesian church, the apostle Paul wrote, “Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all, for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:26–27).

Declaring the whole counsel of God is what made Paul “innocent” of anyone’s choice to turn away from the truth. Paul had fulfilled his ministry among the Ephesians.

It requires an enormous ego and willful spiritual blindness to post a long list of recipients thanking you for your 32 page booklet assuring them there is no eternal lake of fire or eternal hell they need face after death, in complete denial of Jesus' assurance that there is.

You should have retained that list in your prayer closet so that God could see, and reward you appropriately IF you taught these people words that were pleasing to Him.

By throwing them onto the internet to be seen by men, as the Pharisees would, your only reward is the praise of men, Jesus said you could expect no reward from God.

Matthew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven."

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. In Luke 16, he describes a great chasm over which "none may cross from there to us." In Matthew 25, Jesus tells of a time when people will be separated into two groups, one entering into his presence, the other banished to "eternal fire."

Many people today may choose to believe that the concept of hell is outdated, a relic of the past that has served its purpose and can be safely done away with. But for those who are interested in what Jesus taught, hell cannot be easily dismissed, no other biblical figure speaks about hell more often than Jesus Christ.

As the one who was God in human flesh, no one knows more about hell than Jesus Christ, and again, no other biblical figure speaks about hell more often than Jesus Christ.

The two most common words for hell are Hades and Gehēnna. Hades was the Greek word for the realm of the dead, but Jesus uses it more specifically to refer to a place of torment (Luke 16:23), a place that is the opposite of heaven (Matt 11:23). Originally Gehēnna referred to the Hinnom Valley south of Jerusalem, where centuries earlier child sacrifice had been practiced (2nd Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 7:32). By the time of Jesus, Gehēnna was a picture of hell, such that Jesus warns "fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehēnna]" (Matthew 10:28).

Alan Finch wrote:
Below, I thank God for sending me these Christians who have hearing ears. As I have stated before, I have learned that you can present Scriptural truth to people until you are blue in the face, and they will still refuse to change their position.

I was a Christian for 38 years before I began to seriously question what is being taught in the Church today and is excepted by most Christians as being Biblical truth about eternal damnation in a Lake of Fire. I then began to do a very in-depth study of the Scriptures. What I discovered in the Scriptures was much different than what is being taught in the Church today.

I will not be responding to your replies anymore. Nothing is going to convince you otherwise. That is why that you have no interest in reading my 32 page document.
Below, I thank God for sending me these Christians... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Nov 21, 2022 04:53:18   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Thank you, Parky, for honoring God's word with your words of wisdom.

Parky60 wrote:
You are leading a lot of souls on a path straight to hell! It's called apostasy and is clearly prophesied in the Bible.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Reply
Nov 26, 2022 21:31:11   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Alan Finch wrote:
I have spent several years in putting together a 32 page document that Biblically proves that God is not going to send anybody to burn in a Lake of Fire for all eternity. I have put forth a great deal of effort in trying to leave no stone un-turned in presenting the Biblical truth on this subject. The document is much too long to post on this site. If anybody would like a copy of the document, just email me at: (candy33alan@aol.com) and I will email you a copy.

Below is a small sample of what I share in my 32 page document:

I spent several years diligently searching the Scriptures to uncover what really made Biblical sense in regards to God's true message to us of what really is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ, which I did not properly understand for most of my many years as a Christian.

My 1st 38 years as a Christian, I believed the unscriptural teaching about that there is going to be eternal torment for multitudes and multitudes of people. I then began to seriously question that teaching. I then decided to do an in-depth study of the Bible concerning this issue, and the Scriptures revealed to me that I had believed a horrible lie for all those years.

The Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire, but is a metaphor for a Spiritual Lake of Fire from God’s Spirit for the purpose of “RESTORATION.” God is a God of “ETERNAL RESTORATION,” not a God of “eternal destruction.”
In Acts 3:21 God promises that there shall be a “RESTORATION” of ALL things! What is there not to understand about this wonderful promise that God has made to us?

The overall theme of the Bible is that God’s ultimate plan for ALL mankind is to restore, not destroy in an eternal Lake of Fire or eternal annihilation!

In John 12:32 JESUS clearly states that He is going to draw ALL people to Himself! Not a portion of mankind, but ALL of mankind.

In John 6:44 JESUS clearly states that nobody can come to Him except the Father draws that person to Him. For those who are true Christians, WE MUST NOT KID OURSELVES IN THE FACT THAT WE ONLY CAME TO JESUS BECAUSE GOD’S SPIRIT DREW US TO JESUS!

In the present, and in the future, God has His own timing when He will draw each individual to Himself.

Addressing the issue of the belief in eternal annihilation, the Lord clearly tells us in Ecclesiastes 3:11 that He has planted eternity in our hearts. God has made us living Spirits. It is impossible for our Spirit to be destroyed.

GOD HAS NOT FAILED IN HIS ORIGINAL PLAN FOR ALL OF MANKIND WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ETERNAL TORMENT OR ETERNAL ANNIHILATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO FAIL IN ANYTHING!

God worked out His plan in past Ages, God is working out His plan in the present Age that we are now living in, and God will work out His plan in future Ages to come.

I have spent the last several years in Biblically expounding in a 32 page document that I have put together on the truth of there being no eternal suffering in a Lake of Fire for anyone. I have just explained the real LOVE of God that today’s Church just simply does not seem to grasp.

After spending several years of diving deep into the Scriptures to uncover the Biblical truth on this subject, I would like to share these Biblical truths with others so that they can experience the same joy that I experienced which set me free from what I had previously believed for most of my life.
I have spent several years in putting together a 3... (show quote)
You're not alone, Alan.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."


"Shall not PERISH, but have eternal life . . . ."

"For the wages of sin is DEATH . . ."

Biblically Dispelling the Myth of Eternal Torture
Eternal Damnation: What does the Bible Really Teach?

Traditionally, the most prominent view regarding eternal damnation is that the people cast into hell—the lake of fire—will suffer fiery conscious torments forever and ever. Depicting the horrors of this belief was a favorite subject amongst artists in medieval times, resulting in all manner of imaginative and ghastly portraits of people suffering unending agony. Some have since tried to modify this position a bit, suggesting a more metaphorical view, that the unending pain experienced probably refers to the mental anguish of eternal loss and “separation from God;” but it makes no significant difference as both views involve the notion of eternal torment.

This may indeed be the traditionally prominent view regarding human damnation, but is it biblical? That is, do the Judeo-Christian scriptures really teach it? Will the multitudes of people who reject God, and hence are rejected by God, really be subjected to never-ending conscious misery—with no merciful pause to their agony?

One might contend that it is heretical to even question such a long-standing, widely accepted Christian teaching, but if this doctrine is truly scriptural then its proponents have nothing to worry about. Furthermore, it is only proper that all doctrines, no matter how traditional or popular, be questioned in light of what the bible clearly teaches, for it is the God-breathed scriptures alone which we must look to for truth, not popularity or religious tradition. This is the theological principle of sola scriptura, Latin for “by scripture alone,” which maintains that the bible is the final authority regarding all judgments of Christian doctrine and practice.

Because of this sound principle many traditional doctrines and practices have proven to be false over the years and have properly been discarded. Needless to say it’s a very positive thing for Christians to periodically reevaluate their beliefs and practices because it helps prevent Christendom from straying from the biblical model. Since reevaluating official church teachings is very much a part of the Christian heritage, and is indeed a healthy practice, there should be no problem presently in simply entertaining the possibility that tradition may be in error regarding this belief of perpetual conscious torment.

Eternal Torment in Hell: The Silent Subject of the Church

I recently read in a major news magazine that this teaching of hell as eternal torture has all but disappeared from the pulpit ministry in both mainline and evangelical churches. Why is this so? Why are Christians who are committed to this doctrine so reluctant to openly and honestly preach it? Why do they mask what they really believe by saying that the unredeemed will ultimately “perish” or be “destroyed” or suffer eternal “separation from God?” Yes, you’ll hear ‘hell’ brought up now and then, but you’ll rarely, if ever, hear anyone explain what He or she really means when using this term—that is, suffering fiery conscious torment forever and ever with no merciful respite from the misery.

If this is so true, why is everyone so timid about spelling it out loud and clear? The answer is obvious: they’re ashamed of it. They’re ashamed of it because, as Clark Pinnock so aptly put it, this doctrine of eternal torture makes God out to be morally worse than Hitler “who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies whom He does not even allow to die. How can one love a God like that? I suppose one might be afraid of Him, but could we love and respect Him? Would we want to strive to be like Him in His mercilessness?” Let’s be honest here and tell it like it is: The doctrine of never-ending conscious torment makes God out to be a cruel, unjust, merciless monster. Who would possibly want to accept salvation from such a God?

Although there are many good reasons for questioning this teaching, the most important reason is the simple fact that the bible does not teach it. Contrary to the loud claims of its staunch supporters, it is not a scriptural doctrine, and this is being realized by a growing number of biblically faithful Christians today. The bible gives strong, irrefutable proof to any honest reader that hell, the lake of fire, signifies literal everlasting destruction for ungodly people,1 not eternal conscious torment. This is the main reason why so many Christians of all persuasions are embracing the doctrine of everlasting destruction not because they’re “going liberal” as supporters of eternal torment claim. In other words, it’s a case of going biblical, not going liberal.

For clear proof that literal everlasting destruction is what the bible really teaches, let us simply turn to the pages of scripture; after all, a thorough, honest study of the bible will always reveal the truth. -------->>



Reply
Nov 27, 2022 01:23:00   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Blade, may I please clarify? Are you a Universalist?

Universalism is the belief in the eventual salvation of all souls, and that is Alan Finch's theme, as he wrote above:

Quote Alan: "The Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire, but is a metaphor for a Spiritual Lake of Fire from God’s Spirit for the purpose of “RESTORATION.” God is a God of “ETERNAL RESTORATION,” not a God of “eternal destruction.”
In Acts 3:21 God promises that there shall be a “RESTORATION” of ALL things! What is there not to understand about this wonderful promise that God has made to us?

The overall theme of the Bible is that God’s ultimate plan for ALL mankind is to restore, not destroy in an eternal Lake of Fire or eternal annihilation!

In John 12:32 JESUS clearly states that He is going to draw ALL people to Himself! Not a portion of mankind, but ALL of mankind.

In John 6:44 JESUS clearly states that nobody can come to Him except the Father draws that person to Him. For those who are true Christians, WE MUST NOT KID OURSELVES IN THE FACT THAT WE ONLY CAME TO JESUS BECAUSE GOD’S SPIRIT DREW US TO JESUS!

In the present, and in the future, God has His own timing when He will draw each individual to Himself.

Addressing the issue of the belief in eternal annihilation, the Lord clearly tells us in Ecclesiastes 3:11 that He has planted eternity in our hearts. God has made us living Spirits. It is impossible for our Spirit to be destroyed.

GOD HAS NOT FAILED IN HIS ORIGINAL PLAN FOR ALL OF MANKIND WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ETERNAL TORMENT OR ETERNAL ANNIHILATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO FAIL IN ANYTHING!

God worked out His plan in past Ages, God is working out His plan in the present Age that we are now living in, and God will work out His plan in future Ages to come."End Quote

Universalism 1st appeared in Christian history in the works of Origen of Alexandria in the 3rd century; as an organized movement it had its beginnings in the United States in the middle of the 18th century.

Blade, the Enlightenment was responsible for the reemergence of the doctrine of universal salvation. The Universalists believe it impossible that a loving God would save only a portion of humankind and doom the rest. They insist that punishment in the afterlife was for a limited period, (in that regard like the RC belief in purgatory), during which the soul was further purified after death, and prepared for eternity in the presence of God... but with the Universalists, unlike the Catholics, it is not for the saved, but for those who die totally unsaved.

I do not obtain that message from your post? You are arguing for the biblical authenticity of total annihilation rather than the biblical authenticity of everlasting torment, are you not?

Alan Finch, according to his own words, believes in neither, but that all men, ultimately, will be saved.

Blade_Runner wrote:
You're not alone, Alan.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."


"Shall not PERISH, but have eternal life . . . ."

"For the wages of sin is DEATH . . ."

Biblically Dispelling the Myth of Eternal Torture
Eternal Damnation: What does the Bible Really Teach?

Traditionally, the most prominent view regarding eternal damnation is that the people cast into hell—the lake of fire—will suffer fiery conscious torments forever and ever. Depicting the horrors of this belief was a favorite subject amongst artists in medieval times, resulting in all manner of imaginative and ghastly portraits of people suffering unending agony. Some have since tried to modify this position a bit, suggesting a more metaphorical view, that the unending pain experienced probably refers to the mental anguish of eternal loss and “separation from God;” but it makes no significant difference as both views involve the notion of eternal torment.

This may indeed be the traditionally prominent view regarding human damnation, but is it biblical? That is, do the Judeo-Christian scriptures really teach it? Will the multitudes of people who reject God, and hence are rejected by God, really be subjected to never-ending conscious misery—with no merciful pause to their agony?

One might contend that it is heretical to even question such a long-standing, widely accepted Christian teaching, but if this doctrine is truly scriptural then its proponents have nothing to worry about. Furthermore, it is only proper that all doctrines, no matter how traditional or popular, be questioned in light of what the bible clearly teaches, for it is the God-breathed scriptures alone which we must look to for truth, not popularity or religious tradition. This is the theological principle of sola scriptura, Latin for “by scripture alone,” which maintains that the bible is the final authority regarding all judgments of Christian doctrine and practice.

Because of this sound principle many traditional doctrines and practices have proven to be false over the years and have properly been discarded. Needless to say it’s a very positive thing for Christians to periodically reevaluate their beliefs and practices because it helps prevent Christendom from straying from the biblical model. Since reevaluating official church teachings is very much a part of the Christian heritage, and is indeed a healthy practice, there should be no problem presently in simply entertaining the possibility that tradition may be in error regarding this belief of perpetual conscious torment.

Eternal Torment in Hell: The Silent Subject of the Church

I recently read in a major news magazine that this teaching of hell as eternal torture has all but disappeared from the pulpit ministry in both mainline and evangelical churches. Why is this so? Why are Christians who are committed to this doctrine so reluctant to openly and honestly preach it? Why do they mask what they really believe by saying that the unredeemed will ultimately “perish” or be “destroyed” or suffer eternal “separation from God?” Yes, you’ll hear ‘hell’ brought up now and then, but you’ll rarely, if ever, hear anyone explain what He or she really means when using this term—that is, suffering fiery conscious torment forever and ever with no merciful respite from the misery.

If this is so true, why is everyone so timid about spelling it out loud and clear? The answer is obvious: they’re ashamed of it. They’re ashamed of it because, as Clark Pinnock so aptly put it, this doctrine of eternal torture makes God out to be morally worse than Hitler “who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies whom He does not even allow to die. How can one love a God like that? I suppose one might be afraid of Him, but could we love and respect Him? Would we want to strive to be like Him in His mercilessness?” Let’s be honest here and tell it like it is: The doctrine of never-ending conscious torment makes God out to be a cruel, unjust, merciless monster. Who would possibly want to accept salvation from such a God?

Although there are many good reasons for questioning this teaching, the most important reason is the simple fact that the bible does not teach it. Contrary to the loud claims of its staunch supporters, it is not a scriptural doctrine, and this is being realized by a growing number of biblically faithful Christians today. The bible gives strong, irrefutable proof to any honest reader that hell, the lake of fire, signifies literal everlasting destruction for ungodly people,1 not eternal conscious torment. This is the main reason why so many Christians of all persuasions are embracing the doctrine of everlasting destruction not because they’re “going liberal” as supporters of eternal torment claim. In other words, it’s a case of going biblical, not going liberal.

For clear proof that literal everlasting destruction is what the bible really teaches, let us simply turn to the pages of scripture; after all, a thorough, honest study of the bible will always reveal the truth. -------->>
You're not alone, Alan. br br i "And fear n... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 28, 2022 11:11:18   #
Alan Finch
 
The truth of the matter is that the teaching of "ETERNAL TORMENT" is complete "HERESY." If you really want to search out the truth on this subject (or are you just all talk), I challenge you to go to your search engine and key in the wording: "The history of universalism - Christian Universalist Association"

How can any Christian possibly believe that God is going to send anyone to suffer "ETERNAL TORMENT" for trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions of years with no end in sight. Anyone that believes that has no concept of who God really is, and has no concept of what Christ's shed Blood on the Cross is all about. Christians need to wake up and come to their senses.

Reply
 
 
Nov 28, 2022 16:55:37   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Having searched out the truth on this matter many decades ago, Alan, it is you who needs to understand you have not discovered a new universal Biblical spiritual truth.

You are merely recycling one of that old dragon's (who is Satan) ungodly lies, a doctrine of demons that would convince those who are spiritually lost without Christ that they will be just fine.

Instead of exploring devious paths by which you may seek to bypass the clear message of the Gospel, if you would expend that energy in teaching and writing God's message of Salvation, you would do well.

The topic of the Bible's New Testament is individual Salvation granted to each of us, as a result of our affirmative response to the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sinfulness and need for repentance. We are saved through God's grace as we publicly profess our faith in Jesus Christ's completed propitiatory death, and subsequent resurrection to new life on our behave.

The "gospel of Jesus Christ" is the "good news" of our offer of reconciliation with God as a free gift to all who believe. The sin-debt of death we each individually owe Him was paid for in full by Jesus' shed blood on Calvary's cross, and God's grace is applied to us individually through the conduit of our faith as we believe and accept His priceless gift. We are granted eternal life in Jesus Christ, and simultaneously spiritually baptized into His universal body of believers, as we are cleansed from all unrighteousness, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and sealed for eternity.

Only God's Word, His Bible verses, His Holy Scripture, can teach you the meaning of salvation and grant you understanding of what God, not mankind, has declared salvation to be - and from whom or what you are saved.

1st Corinthians 1:21: "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

The Message of the Cross:
1st Corinthians 1:18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will thwart the cleverness of the intelligent.”
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
22 For Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks ask for wisdom,
23 but we preach about a crucified Christ,
24 a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles. But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26 Think about the circumstances of your call, brothers and sisters. Not many were wise by human standards, not many were powerful, not many were born to a privileged position.
27 But God chose what the world thinks foolish to shame the wise, and God chose what the world thinks weak to shame the strong.
28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, what is regarded as nothing, to set aside what is regarded as something,
29 so that no one can boast in His presence.
30 He is the reason you have a relationship with Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”


https://www.britannica.com/topic/Universalism
By The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica Last Updated: Oct 31, 2022

Universalism: Universal Restoration, belief in the salvation of all souls.

Alan,

"Universalism, in their own website" doesn't attempt to disguise themself. They do not seek knowledge of their Creator God that they might worship Him. Rather, they readily identify as the most ancient of rebels against God, pagans - seeking throughout the earth's religions and Greek and eastern Philosophies for "the truths of reformative divine justice, the potential of all people to be perfected in the divine image" ("in order to be as God" as the Serpent promised Eve in the Garden).

https://christianuniversalist.org/resources/articles/history-of-universalism/

Quote:"Since 2007, spreading the message that all will be well...for everyone...no exceptions."

"The History of Universalism: "Universalism is a major spiritual tradition dating back to the Apostles of Jesus Christ and the ancient Christian church. It is an understanding of the Gospel that has inspired saints, mystics, philosophers, theologians, and churches in nearly every era of religious history from the time of Jesus to today."

"Even before the proclamation of the Christian Gospel, there were foreshadowings of Universalism in the Hebrew scriptures as well as in Greek and Eastern philosophy — some of which taught the truths of reformative divine justice, the potential of all people to be perfected in the divine image, and the emanation and restoration of all things back to the Source of All Being."EndQuote


https://www.gotquestions.org › universalism.html
Is universalism / universal salvation biblical? | GotQuestions.org
Answer: "Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved. There are many people today who hold to universal salvation and believe that all people eventually end up in heaven. Perhaps it is the thought of men and women living a life of eternal torment in hell that causes some to reject the teaching of Scripture on this issue."

Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 4:12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;"

Alan Finch wrote:
The truth of the matter is that the teaching of "ETERNAL TORMENT" is complete "HERESY." If you really want to search out the truth on this subject (or are you just all talk), I challenge you to go to your search engine and key in the wording: "The history of universalism - Christian Universalist Association"

How can any Christian possibly believe that God is going to send anyone to suffer "ETERNAL TORMENT" for trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions of years with no end in sight. Anyone that believes that has no concept of who God really is, and has no concept of what Christ's shed Blood on the Cross is all about. Christians need to wake up and come to their senses.
The truth of the matter is that the teaching of &q... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 28, 2022 17:33:12   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Alan Finch wrote:
The truth of the matter is that the teaching of "ETERNAL TORMENT" is complete "HERESY." If you really want to search out the truth on this subject (or are you just all talk), I challenge you to go to your search engine and key in the wording: "The history of universalism - Christian Universalist Association"

How can any Christian possibly believe that God is going to send anyone to suffer "ETERNAL TORMENT" for trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions of years with no end in sight. Anyone that believes that has no concept of who God really is, and has no concept of what Christ's shed Blood on the Cross is all about. Christians need to wake up and come to their senses.
The truth of the matter is that the teaching of &q... (show quote)

Judgment is a concept in Scripture closely related to the concept of God’s justice. In all his relationships God acts justly and morally. Human beings, created by God, are morally structured so that they may positively respond to God’s righteous demands in their lives. Divine judgment, involving God’s approval or disapproval upon each human act, is a natural consequence of the Creator-creature relationship between God and humanity. Thus judgment, simply defined, is the divine response to human activity. God the Creator must also be God the Judge. Since God is just, he responds with either punishments or rewards to what each person does. One’s moral accountability to God, a quality not shared by the rest of creation, is an essential ingredient of being created in God’s image. Creation in the divine image meant that God and man could communicate with each other in such a way that all people were able to understand God’s moral requirements and willingly respond to them. Among the various positive commands given to men in his original creation—including marriage, the subduing of the earth, and enjoyment of the garden of Eden—was the negative command prohibiting the eating of the fruit from one tree. Defiance of this prohibition carried the threat of death as punishment (Gn 2:16, 17). Genesis 3 contains the account of God’s first judgment, the one against Adam. He was punished by death since he had not lived within the moral regulations set by God (vv 17–19). In a purely technical sense judgment includes God’s approval upon acts which please him; but more frequently judgment is understood negatively in the sense that God punishes those who violate his commands. Since the fall all human activity stands under God’s negative judgment (Rom 2:12).

The Christian idea of atonement, that Christ died for sin in the place of man, depends on the thought that God holds man accountable for his sin. In the proprietary atonement of Christ, who was sent by God, willingly placed himself under God’s judgment, and in man’s place received the divine punishment (Gal 3:13). Christ’s death for sin may therefore be considered the extreme manifestation of divine judgment. God as judge visited upon the soul of Christ in his crucifixion the total divine judgment against sin.

Through faith, created by the Holy Spirit in the Word, a believer becomes one with Christ and thus escapes divine judgment and is rescued from punishment (Rom 3:22). Those who by faith share in the benefits of Christ’s death stand before the divine Judge and receive a verdict of acquittal, and instead of punishment and divine retribution receive the gift of eternal life. Jesus says of those who believe in him that they have already passed through judgment, have escaped death, and are already sharing in eternal life (Jn 5:24).

Though sins have been atoned for by Christ, each person, believer and unbeliever alike, still suffer certain consequences of his sin in this life. For every human action there is a divine reaction (Rom 2:6). Paul speaks about the conscience, which carries out a series of judgments even upon the actions of those who do not know the true God (Rom 2:15).

In addition to the accusations of the conscience against even the most private of sins, each human action carries with it potential reward or punishment. Living within the moral bounds established by God, especially as they are revealed in the Ten Commandments and further explicated in the rest of Scripture, results in certain physical benefits in this life. Living in disregard of the moral law results in penalties and hardships appropriate to the infraction (Gal 6:7, 8). For example, refusal to work can result in poverty, and overindulgence can result in poor health. Some activities bring their own penalties. Christians should not conclude that the presence of calamities in a person’s life must indicate a specific judgment of God against a particular sin. God can use calamities in the life of a Christian to guide him providentially to the goal of eternal life (1 Pt 4:12, 13).

On account of man’s sin the creation was subject to a judgment of corruption (Gn 3:17). All of human life participates in a deterioration which is a manifestation of divine judgment against the sin which originated with Adam. God remains sovereign even over the universal corruption and is able to direct and control it for his ultimate purposes (Rom 8:20). Thus, he can use calamities for the benefit of the Christian’s life (Rom 8:28), but he can also use them to manifest his wrath on those who persist in deliberate sin and who reject his Son Jesus Christ as the Redeemer from sin.

Judgment in its final and ultimate sense is best understood as the appearance of Jesus Christ on the last day. At that time believers will be sealed in eternal life and unbelievers will be confirmed in their damnation. This final judgment can in certain cases be carried out on certain persons in their lifetime. The cause of the horrible and unchangeable judgment in this life is the persistent rejection of God’s offer of salvation. This is the sin against the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:32). Those who may already have fallen under its condemnation are those who have heard God’s special message to them and are convinced of its truth, but who nevertheless persist in rejecting this salvation. Pharoah, who recognized Moses as God’s prophet and still rejected him and his message, is considered a prime example of a person who has received God’s final and ultimate judgment in this life (Ex 10:20). The Jews who saw the miracles of Jesus and rejected his claims to be the Messiah are also considered among those who received God’s final judgment while living (Mt 12:22–32).

The Scriptures speak of a judgment at death and still another one on the last day. At death each person receives God’s verdict upon his life (Lk 16:22, 23). The Christian does not fear this moment, because he has already been acquitted in Christ Jesus, and at death he is with his Savior in Paradise (Lk 23:43). The unbeliever rightfully fears death. As he has rejected God in this life, so God rejects him in his death forever.

God’s judgments upon people in this life can be of benefit because through these judgments he is calling them to repentance. The judgment of the last day will be final; no one will be permitted to repent or change his mind about God. On that day all will recognize the truthfulness of God’s claims in Christ Jesus; but only those who have believed in him and carried out his will in their lives will receive the invitation to enter eternal life (Mt 25:34). As important as God’s judgments in this life are, they receive their real importance from God’s final day of judgment. Christians must firmly reject any belief that holds that God is now carrying out the final judgment in our lives and that thus there will never really be a final day.

Christians can live a positive and confident life knowing that Jesus has entered under the divine judgment for them and thus they are free from any further divine retribution. At the same time, they are aware of God’s judgment against all sins, including those of Christians, and that apart from Christ, they would suffer the worst possible divine punishment. They see the evil and calamities of this life as God’s continued displeasure with sin. When they come, Christians use them as opportunities for searching their own souls and for repentance. Though they are not aware of the exact date of the last day, they prepare themselves each day for the final judgment.

The concept of judgment covers the entire history of the human race—from the fall to the last day. God is a just God who sees a decisive difference between good and evil has no choice but to carry out judgment upon all people in their daily lives and especially at life’s conclusion. God in his grace has sent his Son to suffer the judgment we deserved, and in his mercy delays the final day of judgment so that we can come to repentance by faith in Jesus Christ (2 Pt 3:9). The great concepts of creation, justice, law, salvation, and atonement reach their final climax in the divine judgment of the last day.

Reply
Nov 28, 2022 18:16:34   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Excellent post, Parky!

God's judgments are sometimes seen in this present life, but more often it is the future judgment that is in mind:

"For He comes, He comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in His truth"
(Psalm 96:13).

This tells us something very important about God. All peoples throughout the earth will answer to Him.

Jesus said: " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

Our attitude toward the truth determines the outcome of our lives - our eternal destiny. If we don't love the truth, if we resist it, we resist salvation. But if we do love the truth then we embrace God's salvation through Jesus Christ.

Parky60 wrote:
Judgment is a concept in Scripture closely related to the concept of God’s justice. In all his relationships God acts justly and morally. Human beings, created by God, are morally structured so that they may positively respond to God’s righteous demands in their lives. Divine judgment, involving God’s approval or disapproval upon each human act, is a natural consequence of the Creator-creature relationship between God and humanity. Thus judgment, simply defined, is the divine response to human activity. God the Creator must also be God the Judge. Since God is just, he responds with either punishments or rewards to what each person does. One’s moral accountability to God, a quality not shared by the rest of creation, is an essential ingredient of being created in God’s image. Creation in the divine image meant that God and man could communicate with each other in such a way that all people were able to understand God’s moral requirements and willingly respond to them. Among the various positive commands given to men in his original creation—including marriage, the subduing of the earth, and enjoyment of the garden of Eden—was the negative command prohibiting the eating of the fruit from one tree. Defiance of this prohibition carried the threat of death as punishment (Gn 2:16, 17). Genesis 3 contains the account of God’s first judgment, the one against Adam. He was punished by death since he had not lived within the moral regulations set by God (vv 17–19). In a purely technical sense judgment includes God’s approval upon acts which please him; but more frequently judgment is understood negatively in the sense that God punishes those who violate his commands. Since the fall all human activity stands under God’s negative judgment (Rom 2:12).

The Christian idea of atonement, that Christ died for sin in the place of man, depends on the thought that God holds man accountable for his sin. In the proprietary atonement of Christ, who was sent by God, willingly placed himself under God’s judgment, and in man’s place received the divine punishment (Gal 3:13). Christ’s death for sin may therefore be considered the extreme manifestation of divine judgment. God as judge visited upon the soul of Christ in his crucifixion the total divine judgment against sin.

Through faith, created by the Holy Spirit in the Word, a believer becomes one with Christ and thus escapes divine judgment and is rescued from punishment (Rom 3:22). Those who by faith share in the benefits of Christ’s death stand before the divine Judge and receive a verdict of acquittal, and instead of punishment and divine retribution receive the gift of eternal life. Jesus says of those who believe in him that they have already passed through judgment, have escaped death, and are already sharing in eternal life (Jn 5:24).

Though sins have been atoned for by Christ, each person, believer and unbeliever alike, still suffer certain consequences of his sin in this life. For every human action there is a divine reaction (Rom 2:6). Paul speaks about the conscience, which carries out a series of judgments even upon the actions of those who do not know the true God (Rom 2:15).

In addition to the accusations of the conscience against even the most private of sins, each human action carries with it potential reward or punishment. Living within the moral bounds established by God, especially as they are revealed in the Ten Commandments and further explicated in the rest of Scripture, results in certain physical benefits in this life. Living in disregard of the moral law results in penalties and hardships appropriate to the infraction (Gal 6:7, 8). For example, refusal to work can result in poverty, and overindulgence can result in poor health. Some activities bring their own penalties. Christians should not conclude that the presence of calamities in a person’s life must indicate a specific judgment of God against a particular sin. God can use calamities in the life of a Christian to guide him providentially to the goal of eternal life (1 Pt 4:12, 13).

On account of man’s sin the creation was subject to a judgment of corruption (Gn 3:17). All of human life participates in a deterioration which is a manifestation of divine judgment against the sin which originated with Adam. God remains sovereign even over the universal corruption and is able to direct and control it for his ultimate purposes (Rom 8:20). Thus, he can use calamities for the benefit of the Christian’s life (Rom 8:28), but he can also use them to manifest his wrath on those who persist in deliberate sin and who reject his Son Jesus Christ as the Redeemer from sin.

Judgment in its final and ultimate sense is best understood as the appearance of Jesus Christ on the last day. At that time believers will be sealed in eternal life and unbelievers will be confirmed in their damnation. This final judgment can in certain cases be carried out on certain persons in their lifetime. The cause of the horrible and unchangeable judgment in this life is the persistent rejection of God’s offer of salvation. This is the sin against the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:32). Those who may already have fallen under its condemnation are those who have heard God’s special message to them and are convinced of its truth, but who nevertheless persist in rejecting this salvation. Pharoah, who recognized Moses as God’s prophet and still rejected him and his message, is considered a prime example of a person who has received God’s final and ultimate judgment in this life (Ex 10:20). The Jews who saw the miracles of Jesus and rejected his claims to be the Messiah are also considered among those who received God’s final judgment while living (Mt 12:22–32).

The Scriptures speak of a judgment at death and still another one on the last day. At death each person receives God’s verdict upon his life (Lk 16:22, 23). The Christian does not fear this moment, because he has already been acquitted in Christ Jesus, and at death he is with his Savior in Paradise (Lk 23:43). The unbeliever rightfully fears death. As he has rejected God in this life, so God rejects him in his death forever.

God’s judgments upon people in this life can be of benefit because through these judgments he is calling them to repentance. The judgment of the last day will be final; no one will be permitted to repent or change his mind about God. On that day all will recognize the truthfulness of God’s claims in Christ Jesus; but only those who have believed in him and carried out his will in their lives will receive the invitation to enter eternal life (Mt 25:34). As important as God’s judgments in this life are, they receive their real importance from God’s final day of judgment. Christians must firmly reject any belief that holds that God is now carrying out the final judgment in our lives and that thus there will never really be a final day.

Christians can live a positive and confident life knowing that Jesus has entered under the divine judgment for them and thus they are free from any further divine retribution. At the same time, they are aware of God’s judgment against all sins, including those of Christians, and that apart from Christ, they would suffer the worst possible divine punishment. They see the evil and calamities of this life as God’s continued displeasure with sin. When they come, Christians use them as opportunities for searching their own souls and for repentance. Though they are not aware of the exact date of the last day, they prepare themselves each day for the final judgment.

The concept of judgment covers the entire history of the human race—from the fall to the last day. God is a just God who sees a decisive difference between good and evil has no choice but to carry out judgment upon all people in their daily lives and especially at life’s conclusion. God in his grace has sent his Son to suffer the judgment we deserved, and in his mercy delays the final day of judgment so that we can come to repentance by faith in Jesus Christ (2 Pt 3:9). The great concepts of creation, justice, law, salvation, and atonement reach their final climax in the divine judgment of the last day.
Judgment is a concept in Scripture closely related... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 28, 2022 19:33:37   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Zemirah wrote:
Blade, may I please clarify? Are you a Universalist?

Universalism is the belief in the eventual salvation of all souls, and that is Alan Finch's theme, as he wrote above:

Quote Alan: "The Lake of Fire is not a physical Lake of Fire, but is a metaphor for a Spiritual Lake of Fire from God’s Spirit for the purpose of “RESTORATION.” God is a God of “ETERNAL RESTORATION,” not a God of “eternal destruction.”
In Acts 3:21 God promises that there shall be a “RESTORATION” of ALL things! What is there not to understand about this wonderful promise that God has made to us?

The overall theme of the Bible is that God’s ultimate plan for ALL mankind is to restore, not destroy in an eternal Lake of Fire or eternal annihilation!

In John 12:32 JESUS clearly states that He is going to draw ALL people to Himself! Not a portion of mankind, but ALL of mankind.

In John 6:44 JESUS clearly states that nobody can come to Him except the Father draws that person to Him. For those who are true Christians, WE MUST NOT KID OURSELVES IN THE FACT THAT WE ONLY CAME TO JESUS BECAUSE GOD’S SPIRIT DREW US TO JESUS!

In the present, and in the future, God has His own timing when He will draw each individual to Himself.

Addressing the issue of the belief in eternal annihilation, the Lord clearly tells us in Ecclesiastes 3:11 that He has planted eternity in our hearts. God has made us living Spirits. It is impossible for our Spirit to be destroyed.

GOD HAS NOT FAILED IN HIS ORIGINAL PLAN FOR ALL OF MANKIND WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ETERNAL TORMENT OR ETERNAL ANNIHILATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO FAIL IN ANYTHING!

God worked out His plan in past Ages, God is working out His plan in the present Age that we are now living in, and God will work out His plan in future Ages to come."End Quote

Universalism 1st appeared in Christian history in the works of Origen of Alexandria in the 3rd century; as an organized movement it had its beginnings in the United States in the middle of the 18th century.

Blade, the Enlightenment was responsible for the reemergence of the doctrine of universal salvation. The Universalists believe it impossible that a loving God would save only a portion of humankind and doom the rest. They insist that punishment in the afterlife was for a limited period, (in that regard like the RC belief in purgatory), during which the soul was further purified after death, and prepared for eternity in the presence of God... but with the Universalists, unlike the Catholics, it is not for the saved, but for those who die totally unsaved.

I do not obtain that message from your post? You are arguing for the biblical authenticity of total annihilation rather than the biblical authenticity of everlasting torment, are you not?

Alan Finch, according to his own words, believes in neither, but that all men, ultimately, will be saved.
Blade, may I please clarify? Are you a Universali... (show quote)
I am not a universalist, not by any stretch.

I don't believe Jesus could have been more clear when He said, Fear not them who can kill the body but not the soul, rather fear HIM who can destroy both the body and the soul in Gehenna.

IOW, if one turns away from God and does not repent, when death comes both body and soul cease to exist,
which, by any definition, is eternal separation from God.

the wages of sin is DEATH . . . .

For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not PERISH but have eternal life. . . . .

Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to DESTRUCTION and many enter through it, but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will DIE; but if by the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life. (Galatians 6:8)

The truly righteous man attains life, but he who pursues evil goes to his DEATH.

For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone,’ declares the Sovereign LORD, ‘Repent and live!’

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.


Every physical living thing, from plants to humans, is bound to die,
the human body will die, the human body is easy to kill,
however, only God has power over the life and death of the soul.

Simply put, if you create something, you do so with a purpose, and if the something you created does not fulfill your purpose, you have the right and the power to destroy it.

Such is the fate of the human spirit if it does not fulfill God's purpose.

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