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The Sound Of Revelation's Approaching Hoofbeats
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Jun 17, 2022 20:01:45   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
kemmer wrote:
And you’re assuming just neo-Christians (evangelicals who think they’re going to get sucked up into the clouds) will be spirited away to eternal bliss?

No, only true believers who biblically believe in what Jesus did for us on the cross. I assume that doesn't include you.

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Jun 17, 2022 20:23:59   #
kemmer
 
Parky60 wrote:
No, only true believers who biblically believe in what Jesus did for us on the cross. I assume that doesn't include you.

…or any of the other 5- 6 billion people on Earth, right?
Are they all headed for your theological BBQ pit?

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Jun 17, 2022 20:42:37   #
Ri-chard Loc: 23322
 
Nearly one-third or 31.2% of the world's population is considered to be Christian.

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Jun 17, 2022 21:15:03   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
kemmer wrote:
…or any of the other 5- 6 billion people on Earth, right?
Are they all headed for your theological BBQ pit?

I h**e to be the bearer of bad news but anybody that's not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ is destined for hell; that includes you kemmer unless you repent -- that's the good news.

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Jun 17, 2022 21:15:48   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Ri-chard wrote:
Nearly one-third or 31.2% of the world's population is considered to be Christian.

"Professing" Christians. There's a difference.

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Jun 17, 2022 21:55:32   #
kemmer
 
Parky60 wrote:
I h**e to be the bearer of bad news but anybody that's not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ is destined for hell; that includes you kemmer unless you repent -- that's the good news.

And THAT is why it’s h**eful nonsense.

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Jun 17, 2022 23:21:25   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Parky60 wrote:

I h**e to be the bearer of bad news but anybody that's not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ is destined for hell; that includes you kemmer unless you repent -- that's the good news.
kemmer wrote:
And THAT is why it’s h**eful nonsense.
You have nothing to worry about, the eternal lake of fire is a spiritual metaphor cooked up by the clergy during the Dark Ages when superstitions, necromancy, black magic, heathenism and barbarism were rampant among the ignorant populace.

The medieval church preached their "fire and brimstone" sermons to frighten the illiterate masses into repentance.

This doctrine of eternal torture makes God out to be morally worse than Hitler “who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies whom He does not even allow to die. How can one love a God like that? I suppose one might be afraid of Him, but could we love and respect Him? Would we want to strive to be like Him in His mercilessness?” Let’s be honest here and tell it like it is: The doctrine of never-ending conscious torment makes God out to be a cruel, unjust, merciless monster. Who would possibly want to accept salvation from such a God?

Although there are many good reasons for questioning this teaching, the most important reason is the simple fact that the Bible does not teach it.

For the wages of sin is Death . . . as in the end of existence, body and soul.

Shall not PERISH, but have eternal LIFE . . . . an either/or proposition.

The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life. To destroy is to put an end to something, eliminate it.

The truly righteous man attains life, but He who pursues evil goes to his DEATH.

And, Jesus said, Fear not those who k**l the body but cannot k**l the soul. Rather, fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Hell being the spiritual metaphor for the end of existence. Poof! Gone, Adios, nice knowing ya.

There are only two choices, life or death.

Any Christian who threatens you with eternal damnation is arrogant and vindictive.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of them.

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Jun 18, 2022 00:37:04   #
kemmer
 
Blade_Runner wrote:

The medieval church preached their "fire and brimstone" sermons to frighten the illiterate masses into repentance.

Unfortunately, millions still believe that today, and become outraged and condemn people who call them on it.

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Jun 18, 2022 06:39:08   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
Parky60 wrote:
You do realize that although the word "rapture" is not in the Bible, it is clearly described in the NT, including by Jesus Himself?


Rapture itself is not, but the catching away is, which is the same meaning. We will be caught up to meet him in the air. Hallelujah, what a day that will be, to see my Savior, and King.

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Jun 18, 2022 06:39:57   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
Ri-chard wrote:
Those of us eagerly awaiting Jesus' appearing did not expect to see so many signs of the coming kingdom of the antichrist before going home to be with our Savior. We never anticipated seeing so much vile wickedness and demonic deception before the Rapture.

https://www.prophecynewswatch.com/article.cfm?recent_news_id=5426


So agree, this world has gotten even darker than I thought it would become before we are caught up to join our Savior.

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Jun 18, 2022 06:47:12   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
kemmer wrote:
And you’re assuming just neo-Christians (evangelicals who think they’re going to get sucked up into the clouds) will be spirited away to eternal bliss?


Kemmer,
You seriously need to get a Bible and read, Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation.
Your questions will be answered. Also read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, Acts, and Romans.
Hopefully, you will find out about this wonderful Jesus we serve, and you will come to repentance, and can go up in the clouds with us believers in Jesus. He is your only hope, he is the only one who can save.

Reply
 
 
Jun 18, 2022 08:34:24   #
Ri-chard Loc: 23322
 
kemmer wrote:
Unfortunately, millions still believe that today, and become outraged and condemn people who call them on it.


I think you better stick with your side that promotes degenerative behavior from the days of lots' wife. You will be very safe there with plenty of friends.

Reply
Jun 18, 2022 09:03:08   #
kemmer
 
jSmitty45 wrote:
Kemmer,
Hopefully, you will find out about this wonderful Jesus we serve, and you will come to repentance, and can go up in the clouds with us believers in Jesus.

Why would I want to go up into the clouds where it’s 50 below and probably not much oxygen?

Reply
Jun 18, 2022 09:07:11   #
kemmer
 
Ri-chard wrote:
I think you better stick with your side that promotes degenerative behavior from the days of lots' wife.

Hmm…. All Lot’s wife did was look back at her home, while God was OK with Lot pimping out his daughters and then screwing them himself?

Reply
Jun 18, 2022 09:14:56   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
You have nothing to worry about, the eternal lake of fire is a spiritual metaphor cooked up by the clergy during the Dark Ages when superstitions, necromancy, black magic, heathenism and barbarism were rampant among the ignorant populace.

The medieval church preached their "fire and brimstone" sermons to frighten the illiterate masses into repentance.

This doctrine of eternal torture makes God out to be morally worse than Hitler “who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies whom He does not even allow to die. How can one love a God like that? I suppose one might be afraid of Him, but could we love and respect Him? Would we want to strive to be like Him in His mercilessness?” Let’s be honest here and tell it like it is: The doctrine of never-ending conscious torment makes God out to be a cruel, unjust, merciless monster. Who would possibly want to accept salvation from such a God?

Although there are many good reasons for questioning this teaching, the most important reason is the simple fact that the Bible does not teach it.

For the wages of sin is Death . . . as in the end of existence, body and soul.

Shall not PERISH, but have eternal LIFE . . . . an either/or proposition.

The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life. To destroy is to put an end to something, eliminate it.

The truly righteous man attains life, but He who pursues evil goes to his DEATH.

And, Jesus said, Fear not those who k**l the body but cannot k**l the soul. Rather, fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Hell being the spiritual metaphor for the end of existence. Poof! Gone, Adios, nice knowing ya.

There are only two choices, life or death.

Any Christian who threatens you with eternal damnation is arrogant and vindictive.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of them.
You have nothing to worry about, the eternal lake ... (show quote)

I respect your opinion Blade but in this case I respectfully disagree...

"And they all lived happily ever after." That's the way we like our stories to end. And as we come see in the last chapter of Isaiah, that is partially the case, for we read of a new heaven and a new earth where God will wipe away all of our tears, where everything will be right.

It would be wonderful if Isaiah had stopped right there. But there's one more verse. The final verse of Isaiah is not so wonderful, not quite as joyful, for in it he speaks not of the bliss of the thousand-year kingdom or the incredible glory of the new heaven and earth, but of fire and the worm that will never die.

Everyone loves to talk about the mercy, love, and grace of God, the coming of Christ, and the glories of heaven. Hell is a topic not as pleasant to speak about, but one that must be spoke about because Jesus gave more teachings on hell than He did on heaven. Why? He knew its reality. So, God the Father inspired the prophet Isaiah to end his message not just with the hope of the coming kingdom and the glories of a new heaven, but with a warning about the reality of eternal damnation.

Hell. Many people, even ones on OPP, don't believe in it. The rationalist says, "I can't believe that a God who is supposed to be love would actually send people to hell." Intellectually, people have a hard time accepting it. In fact, they spend much of their time building a case to deny it. And yet the Lord states very clearly that it is a place to be reckoned with, that it is reality.

[Jesus said:] For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward. But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’ And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’ And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’” Mark 9:41-48

Every one of us is in one of two categories. There are those who say, “Your will be done, Lord.” And there are those who say, “My will be done. With my foot, I'll walk where I want. With my hand, I'll touch what I want. With my eyes, I'll see things from my perspective. I'll do it my way.”

God won't send these people to hell. But if they are absolutely determined to do their own will, He will allow them to go there. That is why hell is not a contradiction to God's love but rather a confirmation of it. Because God is love, He won't force man to do His will. He will let man have his way—but it will invariably, without exception, lead him to hell.

That is why Jesus said, “I implore and beseech you to cut out your eye, cut off your hand, do wh**ever is necessary to get off the path that will lead to destruction, to hell itself both presently and eternally.” If God means nothing to you and rightness has no appeal for you, if you want to walk and touch and see the way you want, God’s a gentleman and He'll say, “Your will be done. I won't force My way upon you.” And you will begin the long, terrible descent into hell itself.

When the multitude rejected Him, Jesus wasn't angry. He didn't raise His fist and shout, “To hell with you!” – This is where I struggle greatly. I want so bad for people to know the t***h about Jesus is that I get angry because I know that their, like Frank Sinatra used to say, “I did it my way” attitude, is leading them on a path straight to hell – But no, Jesus didn’t get angry, He wept (Luke 19:41). And so, I guess that my anger is actually tears because I know that it's a brokenhearted, loving Father who is saying, “If you absolutely insist that your will be done, I won't force you to receive My Son.”

Who will be in hell? Satan and his angels, for whom it was created. According to Acts 1:20, Judas Iscar**t will be there. Revelation 20:10 says that the antichrist—the world leader that will be indwelt by Satan himself—will be in hell as will the false prophet, his right-hand man. But there is another group of people who will be there, as well...

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:8

“I'm not a murderer,” you say. But Jesus said that if you've been angry with your brother without cause, you're guilty of murder (Matthew 5:21-22). “I'm not a whoremonger,” you protest. But Jesus said that if you've looked at a woman with lust in your heart, you've committed adultery (Matthew 5:28). And who of us would have the audacity to say we've never lied or stretched the t***h?

The lake of fire is the second death. The second death is talked about in Revelation 20...

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10-15

Hell is cast into the lake of fire. Death is cast into the lake of fire. What is this lake of fire? The word, gehenna, comes from Hinnom—a physical location right outside the eastern wall of Jerusalem which has a very colorful but brutal past. It was in the valley of Hinnom that a wicked king named Ahaz constructed idols to Moloch upon which babies were sacrificed. In the days of Jesus, the valley of Hinnom was a garbage dump where all of the refuse of Jerusalem burned day and night. We read in Matthew 27 that, after Judas betrayed Jesus, he hung himself outside of the temple. We are then told in Acts 1 that his body fell down to an area of Hinnom known as the potter's field—an area where potters would throw the broken pieces of their pottery. In 70 AD, when the Romans began to destroy Jerusalem, it was into the valley of Hinnom that they threw the bodies of the 600,000 Jews they slaughtered.

So, when gehenna was used, people associated it with sizzling flesh, burning garbage, death, and slaughter. It was a terrible place. Yet people today are dumb enough to say, "If I go to hell, that's okay with me. My buddies will be there and we'll play poker and watch videos." Not so. The Greek word used for fire is pur, the same word used in Matthew 17 to describe the fire into which the demonized boy threw himself. We're not talking about spiritualized fire. It's literal. But Jesus also said it is outer darkness. In other words, the fire will burn, but no light will come forth. How is this possible? Astronomists have told us that perhaps one-tenth of the universe has been consumed by black holes. Black holes form from an imploding star whose mass is so great, whose gravitational pull is so strong that they are like disposals in your sink. Things go in but are never seen again. Even light, as it's sucked into these cosmic "disposals," never comes out. Could it be that somehow these black holes relate to eternal damnation?

There will be no buddies, no poker, no videos. There will be worms and wailing and fire. Revelation goes on to describe hell in conjunction with a bottomless pit. If you're an unbeliever, enjoy life now because this is as good as you're ever going to have it. Everything from here on is downhill, a bottomless pit. On the other hand, if you're a believer, take hope. This is as bad as it's ever going to be. The struggles with our flesh, the disappointments, the heartaches are real now. But we're going to heaven where there will be no more tears or sorrow.

What does it mean that at the great white throne God will judge those who are resurrected and they will be cast into this lake of fire, into gehenna? Where are they right now? And what does it mean that hell itself is cast into this lake of fire?

People are not in the lake of fire right now. That will happen at the great white throne judgment. Once the Millennium is over, God will resurrect the unbelieving dead to stand before Him at the great white throne. Perhaps they'll say, "I'm a pretty good guy. You can't allow me to spend eternity in outer darkness." But as He opens the books of their lives, the thoughts no one knew they were thinking will be revealed. The reason behind all their "good deeds" will come to light. Sins they thought were long forgotten will be exposed. At that point, I believe no one will argue or even wait to hear God tell them to depart from Him, but will flee themselves, knowing of their sin and horrendous iniquity.

Where are these people presently? We find the answer in Luke 16...

[Jesus said:] There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us. Luke 16:19-26

Before Jesus died, when a person died, he went to one of two sides of hades. One side was called Abraham's bosom, or paradise—a place that was pleasant, a place that was heavenly but not heaven. The other side was what we call hell. Ephesians 4:8, 9 tell us that when Jesus died, before He ascended, He first descended into the lower parts of the earth and led captivity captive. That is, He took the believers from paradise into heaven where they could now live because the price for their sin was paid. When a believer dies now, he goes straight to heaven, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). The unbelieving dead still go to the second compartment of hades or hell, the place of torment, to await the great white throne judgment before they will be sent to gehenna itself.

God never intended anyone to be in hell. And even when we chose to do our own will, He didn't give up on us. He sent Jesus Christ, His Son, to die on the Cross of Calvary. As Jesus was slaughtered on the Cross for our sin, He descended to the lower parts of the earth. He paid the price for our sin. He took the heat of hell for me and you.

We're all sinners, murderers, whoremongers, liars—there is no exception for all have sinned…EVERYONE! But He who knew no sin took our sin upon Himself, died in our place, and went to hell for us. He paid the price completely and if we simply believe this, we will be saved eternally.

Jesus cared enough about you and me to tell us the t***h about hell. We need to listen to what He says. If you're not a believer, this needs to be the day of your conversion. If you're a believer, this needs to be the day of new compassion for those around you headed for hell. And if you're only a nominal believer, I challenge you to make this a day of consideration. Jesus died for you and it's time to start living for Him in light of heaven and eternity, in light of hell and its reality.

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