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Franklin Graham: The Eternal Peril of Progressive Christianity
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Jun 17, 2022 14:38:22   #
sabath
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
Well I’ll start at the bottom so there’s no where to go but up.
Jesus is a Jew, He’s the Lion of Judah!

David’s throne is in London? No way!
It’s in Jerusalem, and always will be.

Joseph’s son’s are a mystery to me, but not to God.

I agree that Judah is not of the 10 lost tribes.

The 10/18 post is ridiculous.

The opener is twisted. God promised Abraham that he would receive the land and that he would father multiple nations, with descendants as plentiful as the sand.
No mention of America or Britton, although it seems likely that due to the dispersal, there’s some of the little flock here.

Paschal and his wager. I love it.
I used to be in the world, 8 years ago I was born again and now I believe God. I used to only believe in Him.
Praise Him from whom all blessings flow!
Well I’ll start at the bottom so there’s no where ... (show quote)


If you know the Bible you would'nt say" I was borne again, John 3:8 . You are borne the first time from the water of your mothers womb. when you are borne again,after death, you are borne a spirit.

Reply
Jun 17, 2022 15:37:50   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
sabath wrote:
If you know the Bible you would'nt say" I was borne again, John 3:8 . You are borne the first time from the water of your mothers womb. when you are borne again,after death, you are borne a spirit.


So you don’t believe in the rapture!?!

Reply
Jun 17, 2022 15:44:32   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
sabath wrote:
If you know the Bible you would'nt say" I was borne again, John 3:8 . You are borne the first time from the water of your mothers womb. when you are borne again,after death, you are borne a spirit.


I’m trying to figure out which cult you are currently listening to. Seven day Adventist I’m guessing.

Reply
 
 
Jun 19, 2022 09:47:19   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
sabath wrote:
Franklin says" go to church on Sunday to worship God. God says go to work on Sunday and worship God on the Sabbath. Hell is another word for your grave, it is not eternal, you will stand up when he calls you!


Have you actually read the Bible?

"Shabbat" is the original Hebrew word for our English word sabbath. It comes from the root Shin-Beit-Tav and means “to cease, to end, to rest. It does not mean worship.

There is no mention in Old Testament passages that attending a worship service on the Sabbath is a way of keeping this day holy. The way the Sabbath was sanctified,"made holy," meaning "separated" or "set apart" as sacred was through physical rest from labor. This is what all the Old Testament references to Sabbath observance in Israel say.

Where does God say to "Go to work on Sunday?" Nowhere! He also does not say not to go to work on Sunday.

If you work on Sunday, it is not a sin. If you don't work on Sunday, it is not a sin.

There is no other Sabbath rest for Christians except Jesus.
With Jesus’ atonement, we no longer are required to keep the Law as a means for our justification. The requirements of the Law were fulfilled in Christ. We now have rest from the Law. We now have “Sabbath,” continually.

Of the ten commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were restated in the New Testament.
(Six in Matthew 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Romans 13:9, coveting. Worshiping God properly covers the first three commandments)

The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Instead, Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8).

Reply
Jun 19, 2022 20:08:35   #
sabath
 
Zemirah wrote:
Sabath, You have four phrases that require separating.

1. If [Rev.] Franklin [Graham] wants to keep the commandments

2. of God the Father and God the Son,

3. why does he preach a different 4th commandment?

4. Does he know that the "grave" is not eternal hell.[?]

1a. You've given no evidence that Franklin Graham does not keep," to the best of his ability ("the whole council of God"), the commandments of the Triune God, a Godhood encompassing Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

"And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all his work which God created and made," (Genesis 2:3).

Colossians 2:16 "Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath."

It is well understood that: Salvation is available only through faith in Jesus Christ. He paid our sin-debt of death in full,(Romans 14).
Christians must be born again through faith in what Christ accomplished on the cross - not rituals, nor through a specific day of worship, or the food they ate or did not eat.

Sabbath means, Rest; cessation of work.
Saturday means, the seventh day of the week.
Sunday means, the first day of the week.
It is not in which day, but in Whom we worship.
Set aside one day of the week as a day of rest.
Every day is a day of worship, with no one day being more important than another.

2a. God exists in three individual, distinct and unique Persons within the Trinity, comprising the Triune One, perfectly unified Godhood, sharing the same nature and essence, and all the One God.

3a. Again, you've given no evidence that Rev. Franklin Graham is, as an Evangelist under the New Covenant of grace, preaching a "different" 4th commandment, in opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Apostle James, the elder, presiding over the Jerusalem council of 50 A.D., rendered the decision on the matter of "Gentiles and the Law" (Acts 15) that it is not right to *"trouble" the Gentiles with the Law:

19 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain 1) from things contaminated by idols and 2) from fornication and from 3) what is strangled and 4) from blood.
28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29 that you 1) abstain from things sacrificed to idols and 2) from blood and 3) from things strangled and 4) from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well."

The verb *παρενοχλέω is used only in this passage in the New Testament. This same term in 2nd Maccabees 11:31, centuries earlier relates in a text that Greek authorities permit the Jews to "enjoy their own food and laws" without being "troubled" over their keeping of religious boundary markers like circumcision or food laws; here, in Acts, it is the guidance of the Holy Spirit that Gentile converts to Jesus are not to be placed under the burden of Old Testament Law.

4a. You quote no Scripture as a cause for either Rev. Franklin Graham or you to believe "the grave" within itself is eternal. for when a Christian dies, only the body goes into the grave; the soul and spirit go immediately to be with the Lord Jesus awaiting the body's resurrection, when they're joined together to be forever with the Lord.

Every nonbeliever awaits the Great White Throne Judgement of the lost, pictured in Revelation 20:11-15.
In Greek, there are two words for hell. One is Tartarus, used only once, a temporary holding place. The other is Gehenna, used twelve times in the new testament to describe hell as not temporary but eternal.
Sabath, You have four phrases that require separat... (show quote)


The sabbath day was established on the 7th day of creation,man does not choose which day it will be.he said"the sabbath day is MY day.
Satan said set aside one day of the week as a day of rest. every day is a day of worship,with no one day being more important than another.
There is one God, one son, and the Holy Spirit OF God and Jesus,there is no 3rd. person.The word trinity is not in the bible, have you been reading the books of John Nelson Darby? I hope you are not a "Dispensation" believer.
Jesus told the Gentiles a more leaner set of rules,that they should follow.
Jesus did not come to change the law, I think you don't read the old test. much.
You should know why 2Maccabees was taken out of the KJV 100yrs.ago.
God said all the graves will be oprned, some at the 2nd. coming, some after 1000 yrs.

Reply
Jun 19, 2022 23:23:43   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
sabath wrote:
The sabbath day was established on the 7th day of creation,man does not choose which day it will be.he said"the sabbath day is MY day.
Satan said set aside one day of the week as a day of rest. every day is a day of worship,with no one day being more important than another.
There is one God, one son, and the Holy Spirit OF God and Jesus,there is no 3rd. person.The word trinity is not in the bible, have you been reading the books of John Nelson Darby? I hope you are not a "Dispensation" believer.
Jesus told the Gentiles a more leaner set of rules,that they should follow.
Jesus did not come to change the law, I think you don't read the old test. much.
You should know why 2Maccabees was taken out of the KJV 100yrs.ago.
God said all the graves will be oprned, some at the 2nd. coming, some after 1000 yrs.
The sabbath day was established on the 7th day of ... (show quote)

Oh boy!
Whew!
Who do you think the comforter is that Jesus sent?
The one and only Holy Spirit, the third part of triune God!

Reply
Jun 21, 2022 00:20:23   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
Oh boy!
Whew!
Who do you think the comforter is that Jesus sent?
The one and only Holy Spirit, the third part of triune God!


1. God the Father is Spirit and He is a person.
2. Jesus (before He came to earth), was and is Spirit, and He was always a person. He is now fully God (Spirit) and fully man.
3. The Holy Spirit is also a person.

These are the attributes that make the Holy Spirit a person.

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?"

Acts 10:19-21
While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself.” Peter went down to the men and said, “Behold, I am the one you are looking for; what is the reason for which you have come?”

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Acts 13:2
While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 2:10
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

John 15:26
"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,

Romans 8:26
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;

Luke 12:11-12
When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; For at that time the Holy Spirit will teach you what you should say."

John 14:26
[Jesus said] "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

Reply
 
 
Jun 21, 2022 01:32:07   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Sabath, you cannot be under both Law and Grace. It's one or the other.

Which is more important to you, that Jesus Christ died on the cross and paid in full the sin debt/penalty you owed God for your sins?,
or that the Old Testament Religious Leaders had turned God's day of rest into a day of keeping hundreds of man-made rules God never commanded or intended to impose on anyone??

That is why Jesus told the Pharisees, "You made my Father's words of no effect because of all your man-made traditions!"

The Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians.
Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments).
Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system).
Some of the laws (the food and clothing rules) were intended to separate the Israelites from the surrounding nations because those nations worshiped idols/false gods.

None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today.
When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).
Figuratively, it was nailed to His cross.

Christians are under God's grace for their salvation; Jesus Christ's laws, including (Galatians 6:2), are to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39).
If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40).

This does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor.

The Old Testament law is indivisible (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. Christ fulfilled all of it when He fulfilled the sacrificial system.

The Greatest Word on the Greatest Day in all eternity!
Jesus said "TETELESTAI" on the cross, meaning "Paid in full"! What Jesus said in Aramaic means "Paid in full." Jesus paid our sin debt in full. This is translated in English as "It Is Finished." (John 19:30)

Trinity is an English word. The Bible is written in the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic languages. The English language didn't even exist when the Bible was written.

2nd Maccabees dies not belong in the Bible because it is not inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it is a good source of History. It is actual history. The family it is written about did live, and it gives us information about the years when God was silent, the 400 year period between the end of the Old Testament and the beginning of the New Testament.

I have never seen a book by John Nelson Darby.

I know that what he wrote is based on the New Testament. I know this because stubborn, cultish, often brainwashed people who actually believe they're good enough to work their own way to heaven, bring up Darby's name, using it as an excuse to reject God's written Word in the New Testament, so I researched him.

Sabath. I'm eighty years old, almost eighty one. I first read the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, all the way through when I was nine years old. That's seventy one, almost seventy two years of reading the Old Testament and the New Testament. I know what it says and just as importantly, I understand what it means.

What in the world have you been reading?

sabath wrote:
The sabbath day was established on the 7th day of creation,man does not choose which day it will be.he said"the sabbath day is MY day.
Satan said set aside one day of the week as a day of rest. every day is a day of worship,with no one day being more important than another.
There is one God, one son, and the Holy Spirit OF God and Jesus,there is no 3rd. person.The word trinity is not in the bible, have you been reading the books of John Nelson Darby? I hope you are not a "Dispensation" believer.
Jesus told the Gentiles a more leaner set of rules,that they should follow.
Jesus did not come to change the law, I think you don't read the old test. much.
You should know why 2Maccabees was taken out of the KJV 100yrs.ago.
God said all the graves will be oprned, some at the 2nd. coming, some after 1000 yrs.
The sabbath day was established on the 7th day of ... (show quote)

Reply
Jun 21, 2022 10:26:13   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
Zemirah wrote:
Sabath, you cannot be under both Law and Grace. It's one or the other.

Which is more important to you, that Jesus Christ died on the cross and paid in full the sin debt/penalty you owed God for your sins?,
or that the Old Testament Religious Leaders had turned God's day of rest into a day of keeping hundreds of man-made rules God never commanded or intended to impose on anyone??

That is why Jesus told the Pharisees, "You made my Father's words of no effect because of all your man-made traditions!"

The Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians.
Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments).
Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system).
Some of the laws (the food and clothing rules) were intended to separate the Israelites from the surrounding nations because those nations worshiped idols/false gods.

None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today.
When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).
Figuratively, it was nailed to His cross.

Christians are under God's grace for their salvation; Jesus Christ's laws, including (Galatians 6:2), are to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39).
If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40).

This does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor.

The Old Testament law is indivisible (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. Christ fulfilled all of it when He fulfilled the sacrificial system.

The Greatest Word on the Greatest Day in all eternity!
Jesus said "TETELESTAI" on the cross, meaning "Paid in full"! What Jesus said in Aramaic means "Paid in full." Jesus paid our sin debt in full. This is translated in English as "It Is Finished." (John 19:30)

Trinity is an English word. The Bible is written in the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic languages. The English language didn't even exist when the Bible was written.

2nd Maccabees dies not belong in the Bible because it is not inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it is a good source of History. It is actual history. The family it is written about did live, and it gives us information about the years when God was silent, the 400 year period between the end of the Old Testament and the beginning of the New Testament.

I have never seen a book by John Nelson Darby.

I know that what he wrote is based on the New Testament. I know this because stubborn, cultish, often brainwashed people who actually believe they're good enough to work their own way to heaven, bring up Darby's name, using it as an excuse to reject God's written Word in the New Testament, so I researched him.

Sabath. I'm eighty years old, almost eighty one. I first read the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, all the way through when I was nine years old. That's seventy one, almost seventy two years of reading the Old Testament and the New Testament. I know what it says and just as importantly, I understand what it means.

What in the world have you been reading?
Sabath, you cannot be under both Law and Grace. It... (show quote)


I think sabath is a member of a cult.
I’m not sure which one or ones.
It’s okay with God, the free choice thing, so it’s okay with me.
Some vessels are for destruction and some for glory.

Reply
Jun 25, 2022 01:42:59   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
I think sabath is a member of a cult.
I’m not sure which one or ones.
It’s okay with God, the free choice thing, so it’s okay with me.
Some vessels are for destruction and some for glory.


I agree, Marty, that sabath's posts reflect several elements within the CIM (Christian Identity Movement), i.e., Seventh-day Adventist, Armstrongism - British-Israelism.

In Romans 9:22-26, With "vessels of wrath" and "vessels of mercy," Paul is upholding the sovereignty of God - by asking this hypothetical question, he is illustrating God's right to extend the offer of salvation to whomever He pleases, in this case, the Gentiles.

"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’ ”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”

The passage above must be reconciled with the Word of God's other passages on this subject, for although God is sovereign, yet, He does not violate man's free will:

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

Ezekiel 18:23
"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn't I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?"

Ezekiel 18:32
"For I take no pleasure in anyone's death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!"

1st Timothy 2:3-4: "This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Reply
Jun 25, 2022 10:10:12   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
Zemirah wrote:
I agree, Marty, that sabath's posts reflect several elements within the CIM (Christian Identity Movement), i.e., Seventh-day Adventist, Armstrongism - British-Israelism.

In Romans 9:22-26, With "vessels of wrath" and "vessels of mercy," Paul is upholding the sovereignty of God - by asking this hypothetical question, he is illustrating God's right to extend the offer of salvation to whomever He pleases, in this case, the Gentiles.

"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’ ”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”

The passage above must be reconciled with the Word of God's other passages on this subject, for although God is sovereign, yet, He does not violate man's free will:

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

Ezekiel 18:23
"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn't I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?"

Ezekiel 18:32
"For I take no pleasure in anyone's death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!"

1st Timothy 2:3-4: "This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
I agree, Marty, that sabath's posts reflect severa... (show quote)

Absolutely! But that free will thing keeps getting in the way of those who think too highly of themselves.

Reply
 
 
Jun 25, 2022 13:52:28   #
sabath
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
I think sabath is a member of a cult.
I’m not sure which one or ones.
It’s okay with God, the free choice thing, so it’s okay with me.
Some vessels are for destruction and some for glory.


I do not know of a single book among the New Testament writings that is not deeply founded upon the entirety of the Old Testament writings. And I would expect that anyone who studied the scriptures would immediately become aware of that fact. Anyone that has read the Holy Bible and can say- the old testament don't apply,and call me a cult member, I can see I'm wasting my time, I suggest you start at Gen. 1:1 again.

Reply
Jun 26, 2022 00:44:36   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
sabath wrote:
I do not know of a single book among the New Testament writings that is not deeply founded upon the entirety of the Old Testament writings. And I would expect that anyone who studied the scriptures would immediately become aware of that fact. Anyone that has read the Holy Bible and can say- the old testament don't apply,and call me a cult member, I can see I'm wasting my time, I suggest you start at Gen. 1:1 again.

In the beginning, created God, the heavens and the earth.
Did you know that there’s another written symbol that’s not translated?
Probably not.
I’ve never disparaged the OT.
I love Ezekiel and Daniel,
Judges and both Samuel books. Genesis is amazing.

Reply
Jul 7, 2022 09:39:27   #
sabath
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
In the beginning, created God, the heavens and the earth.
Did you know that there’s another written symbol that’s not translated?
Probably not.
I’ve never disparaged the OT.
I love Ezekiel and Daniel,
Judges and both Samuel books. Genesis is amazing.


What is the other written symbol that’s not translated?

Reply
Jul 7, 2022 10:14:25   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
sabath wrote:
What is the other written symbol that’s not translated?


אֵת

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