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To be fully human is our divine potential. To perfect yourself, be yourself, the Original self that God created in his image and likeness
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Feb 9, 2022 19:46:03   #
rumitoid
 
It is not to rise above, deny, or attempt to overcome our human nature but to allow it to fully mature through love, to become what it already is, the image and likeness of God. This is our inheritance as a child of God. This is only possible by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace.

Reply
Feb 10, 2022 21:18:27   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
rumitoid wrote:
It is not to rise above, deny, or attempt to overcome our human nature but to allow it to fully mature through love, to become what it already is, the image and likeness of God. This is our inheritance as a child of God. This is only possible by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace.

???
Triune?
Mind
Body
Spirit?
Sin nature?
We’re born in Adam, at salvation we become a child of God.
Not before.

Reply
Feb 11, 2022 23:13:46   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Self deification is the worst possible form of idolatry.

Existing in the "Image" of Deity and/or in the "Likeness" of Deity is not intrinsically "being" Deity.

It is "mirroring" Deity, or "reflecting" the image of Deity, as the moon reflects the light of the Sun, but without light or heat of its own.

You are using "Spirit" and "Grace," as though they were a sister act... like "Diamond" and "Silk!"

All the cultish teachers and teachings that choose to believe they are "gods" suffer from either illusion or delusion.

Illusion is defined as the false interpretation of an external object or stimulus that exists in reality. Delusion is a false firm belief in something that is not factual, which persists even when the belief is proven to be false.

An illusion can be self corrected. A delusion is likely to be defined as a disorder of mind or personality in which there is impairment of mental or emotional components. It’s sometimes referred to as “insanity” or “lunacy.”

If humans had the capacity to be God, which we don't, Jesus would not have become incarnate, and come to earth, to pay in full our sin debt.

If we were Deity, i.e., Divinity, nothing we did, no move we made, would be sin, for we would determine the definition of sin.

The Bible would need not to have been written, for we would have all knowledge.

This belief is very similar to the New Age Theology of Unity Church, which came out of 19th century New Thought...
of which Phineas P. Quimby (1802–66) is usually cited as the earliest proponent. New Thought was a mind-healing movement that originated in the United States in the 19th century, based on religious and metaphysical (concerning the nature of ultimate reality) presuppositions.The diversity of views and styles of life represented in various New Thought groups are difficult to describe because of their variety.

Elements of New Thought may be traced to Platonism, based on the Idealism of the 5th–4th-century-bc Greek philosopher Plato, who held that the realm of ideas is more real than that of matter;
to Swedenborgianism, especially Swedenborg’s view that the material realm is one of effects whose causes are spiritual and whose purpose is divine;
to Hegelianism, based on the views of the 18th–19th-century German philosopher G.W.F. Hegel, especially those concerning the external world, mental phenomena, and the nervous organism as the meeting ground of the body and the mind;
to Orientalism, involving spiritual teachings of Eastern religions (e.g., Hinduism); and, particularly, to the Transcendentalism (a form of Idealism) of the 19th-century American philosopher and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Unity Church proclaims the divinity of Jesus, and also proclaims that we are all children of God and share that divine potential. Unity believes that Jesus "expressed" his divine potential, and that His mission consisted of showing others how to do the same. Unity recognizes Jesus as a master teacher of universal Truth who demonstrated the Way to this truth to others. Unity uses the term "Christ" to indicate the divinity in all people. Jesus is one of their examples of the Christ in expression.

Christian Science also derives from "New Thought," - not to be confused with New Age.

They are mistaken, and likely demonically deceived.

No one can become a child of God without first, of their own free will, kneeling at the base of Jesus' cross, in repentance, and acknowledgment of their grievous shortcomings, and with incredulous gratitude for this free unmerited gift of forgiveness now, guided and comforted by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and a future eternal life to be lived in God's presence, - all received through His grace, via the conduit of our faith.


rumitoid wrote:
It is not to rise above, deny, or attempt to overcome our human nature but to allow it to fully mature through love, to become what it already is, the image and likeness of God. This is our inheritance as a child of God. This is only possible by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace.

Reply
 
 
Feb 12, 2022 07:28:14   #
Rose42
 
Zemirah wrote:
Self deification is the worst possible form of idolatry.

Existing in the "Image" of Deity and/or in the "Likeness" of Deity is not intrinsically "being" Deity.

It is "mirroring" Deity, or "reflecting" the image of Deity, as the moon reflects the light of the Sun, but without light or heat of its own.

You are using "Spirit" and "Grace," as though they were a sister act... like "Diamond" and "Silk!"

All the cultish teachers and teachings that choose to believe they are "gods" suffer from either illusion or delusion.

Illusion is defined as the false interpretation of an external object or stimulus that exists in reality. Delusion is a false firm belief in something that is not factual, which persists even when the belief is proven to be false.

An illusion can be self corrected. A delusion is likely to be defined as a disorder of mind or personality in which there is impairment of mental or emotional components. It’s sometimes referred to as “insanity” or “lunacy.”

If humans had the capacity to be God, which we don't, Jesus would not have become incarnate, and come to earth, to pay in full our sin debt.

If we were Deity, i.e., Divinity, nothing we did, no move we made, would be sin, for we would determine the definition of sin.

The Bible would need not to have been written, for we would have all knowledge.

This belief is very similar to the New Age Theology of Unity Church, which came out of 19th century New Thought...
of which Phineas P. Quimby (1802–66) is usually cited as the earliest proponent. New Thought was a mind-healing movement that originated in the United States in the 19th century, based on religious and metaphysical (concerning the nature of ultimate reality) presuppositions.The diversity of views and styles of life represented in various New Thought groups are difficult to describe because of their variety.

Elements of New Thought may be traced to Platonism, based on the Idealism of the 5th–4th-century-bc Greek philosopher Plato, who held that the realm of ideas is more real than that of matter;
to Swedenborgianism, especially Swedenborg’s view that the material realm is one of effects whose causes are spiritual and whose purpose is divine;
to Hegelianism, based on the views of the 18th–19th-century German philosopher G.W.F. Hegel, especially those concerning the external world, mental phenomena, and the nervous organism as the meeting ground of the body and the mind;
to Orientalism, involving spiritual teachings of Eastern religions (e.g., Hinduism); and, particularly, to the Transcendentalism (a form of Idealism) of the 19th-century American philosopher and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Unity Church proclaims the divinity of Jesus, and also proclaims that we are all children of God and share that divine potential. Unity believes that Jesus "expressed" his divine potential, and that His mission consisted of showing others how to do the same. Unity recognizes Jesus as a master teacher of universal Truth who demonstrated the Way to this truth to others. Unity uses the term "Christ" to indicate the divinity in all people. Jesus is one of their examples of the Christ in expression.

Christian Science also derives from "New Thought," - not to be confused with New Age.

They are mistaken, and likely demonically deceived.

No one can become a child of God without first, of their own free will, kneeling at the base of Jesus' cross, in repentance, and acknowledgment of their grievous shortcomings, and with incredulous gratitude for this free unmerited gift of forgiveness now, guided and comforted by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and a future eternal life to be lived in God's presence, - all received through His grace, via the conduit of our faith.
Self deification is the worst possible form of ido... (show quote)


Spot on.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 09:12:14   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
Zemirah wrote:
Self deification is the worst possible form of idolatry.

Existing in the "Image" of Deity and/or in the "Likeness" of Deity is not intrinsically "being" Deity.

It is "mirroring" Deity, or "reflecting" the image of Deity, as the moon reflects the light of the Sun, but without light or heat of its own.

You are using "Spirit" and "Grace," as though they were a sister act... like "Diamond" and "Silk!"

All the cultish teachers and teachings that choose to believe they are "gods" suffer from either illusion or delusion.

Illusion is defined as the false interpretation of an external object or stimulus that exists in reality. Delusion is a false firm belief in something that is not factual, which persists even when the belief is proven to be false.

An illusion can be self corrected. A delusion is likely to be defined as a disorder of mind or personality in which there is impairment of mental or emotional components. It’s sometimes referred to as “insanity” or “lunacy.”

If humans had the capacity to be God, which we don't, Jesus would not have become incarnate, and come to earth, to pay in full our sin debt.

If we were Deity, i.e., Divinity, nothing we did, no move we made, would be sin, for we would determine the definition of sin.

The Bible would need not to have been written, for we would have all knowledge.

This belief is very similar to the New Age Theology of Unity Church, which came out of 19th century New Thought...
of which Phineas P. Quimby (1802–66) is usually cited as the earliest proponent. New Thought was a mind-healing movement that originated in the United States in the 19th century, based on religious and metaphysical (concerning the nature of ultimate reality) presuppositions.The diversity of views and styles of life represented in various New Thought groups are difficult to describe because of their variety.

Elements of New Thought may be traced to Platonism, based on the Idealism of the 5th–4th-century-bc Greek philosopher Plato, who held that the realm of ideas is more real than that of matter;
to Swedenborgianism, especially Swedenborg’s view that the material realm is one of effects whose causes are spiritual and whose purpose is divine;
to Hegelianism, based on the views of the 18th–19th-century German philosopher G.W.F. Hegel, especially those concerning the external world, mental phenomena, and the nervous organism as the meeting ground of the body and the mind;
to Orientalism, involving spiritual teachings of Eastern religions (e.g., Hinduism); and, particularly, to the Transcendentalism (a form of Idealism) of the 19th-century American philosopher and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Unity Church proclaims the divinity of Jesus, and also proclaims that we are all children of God and share that divine potential. Unity believes that Jesus "expressed" his divine potential, and that His mission consisted of showing others how to do the same. Unity recognizes Jesus as a master teacher of universal Truth who demonstrated the Way to this truth to others. Unity uses the term "Christ" to indicate the divinity in all people. Jesus is one of their examples of the Christ in expression.

Christian Science also derives from "New Thought," - not to be confused with New Age.

They are mistaken, and likely demonically deceived.

No one can become a child of God without first, of their own free will, kneeling at the base of Jesus' cross, in repentance, and acknowledgment of their grievous shortcomings, and with incredulous gratitude for this free unmerited gift of forgiveness now, guided and comforted by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and a future eternal life to be lived in God's presence, - all received through His grace, via the conduit of our faith.
Self deification is the worst possible form of ido... (show quote)


Thanks for the truth. There’s other organizations like this in play. NAR is probably the only one I have seen in person, where there are people who think they are apostles and are giving the kingdom over to Jesus at His return. No rapture, no wedding feast, no tribulation!
Deniers of truth.
Bethel church in Redding California is a player.
The Bible says what He means and He means what He says!

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 10:31:04   #
rumitoid
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
???
Triune?
Mind
Body
Spirit?
Sin nature?
We’re born in Adam, at salvation we become a child of God.
Not before.


What I said.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 10:32:51   #
rumitoid
 
Zemirah wrote:
Self deification is the worst possible form of idolatry.

Existing in the "Image" of Deity and/or in the "Likeness" of Deity is not intrinsically "being" Deity.

It is "mirroring" Deity, or "reflecting" the image of Deity, as the moon reflects the light of the Sun, but without light or heat of its own.

You are using "Spirit" and "Grace," as though they were a sister act... like "Diamond" and "Silk!"

All the cultish teachers and teachings that choose to believe they are "gods" suffer from either illusion or delusion.

Illusion is defined as the false interpretation of an external object or stimulus that exists in reality. Delusion is a false firm belief in something that is not factual, which persists even when the belief is proven to be false.

An illusion can be self corrected. A delusion is likely to be defined as a disorder of mind or personality in which there is impairment of mental or emotional components. It’s sometimes referred to as “insanity” or “lunacy.”

If humans had the capacity to be God, which we don't, Jesus would not have become incarnate, and come to earth, to pay in full our sin debt.

If we were Deity, i.e., Divinity, nothing we did, no move we made, would be sin, for we would determine the definition of sin.

The Bible would need not to have been written, for we would have all knowledge.

This belief is very similar to the New Age Theology of Unity Church, which came out of 19th century New Thought...
of which Phineas P. Quimby (1802–66) is usually cited as the earliest proponent. New Thought was a mind-healing movement that originated in the United States in the 19th century, based on religious and metaphysical (concerning the nature of ultimate reality) presuppositions.The diversity of views and styles of life represented in various New Thought groups are difficult to describe because of their variety.

Elements of New Thought may be traced to Platonism, based on the Idealism of the 5th–4th-century-bc Greek philosopher Plato, who held that the realm of ideas is more real than that of matter;
to Swedenborgianism, especially Swedenborg’s view that the material realm is one of effects whose causes are spiritual and whose purpose is divine;
to Hegelianism, based on the views of the 18th–19th-century German philosopher G.W.F. Hegel, especially those concerning the external world, mental phenomena, and the nervous organism as the meeting ground of the body and the mind;
to Orientalism, involving spiritual teachings of Eastern religions (e.g., Hinduism); and, particularly, to the Transcendentalism (a form of Idealism) of the 19th-century American philosopher and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Unity Church proclaims the divinity of Jesus, and also proclaims that we are all children of God and share that divine potential. Unity believes that Jesus "expressed" his divine potential, and that His mission consisted of showing others how to do the same. Unity recognizes Jesus as a master teacher of universal Truth who demonstrated the Way to this truth to others. Unity uses the term "Christ" to indicate the divinity in all people. Jesus is one of their examples of the Christ in expression.

Christian Science also derives from "New Thought," - not to be confused with New Age.

They are mistaken, and likely demonically deceived.

No one can become a child of God without first, of their own free will, kneeling at the base of Jesus' cross, in repentance, and acknowledgment of their grievous shortcomings, and with incredulous gratitude for this free unmerited gift of forgiveness now, guided and comforted by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and a future eternal life to be lived in God's presence, - all received through His grace, via the conduit of our faith.
Self deification is the worst possible form of ido... (show quote)


Apparently I wasn't clear. I thoroughly agree with you...which I thought I made clear in my thread. It was never, ever a deification of self but of the power of the spirit and grace of God to transform us to his original intention of what he created, to become what we were meant to be by his design, to become what we are.

Reply
 
 
Feb 12, 2022 10:33:19   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
Spot on.



Reply
Feb 12, 2022 10:34:31   #
rumitoid
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
Thanks for the truth. There’s other organizations like this in play. NAR is probably the only one I have seen in person, where there are people who think they are apostles and are giving the kingdom over to Jesus at His return. No rapture, no wedding feast, no tribulation!
Deniers of truth.
Bethel church in Redding California is a player.
The Bible says what He means and He means what He says!


Okay, I was misunderstood. Sorry.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 10:41:34   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
rumitoid wrote:
What I said.


Our human nature is destroyed by the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.
If you choose not to die to self, then you’re not reborn.
Romans 7 explains how the battle goes, ultimately we have control of the outcome of the war.
Belief or unbelief, obedience or disobedience, life or death, ALL the same picture.
Those who accept the free gift of salvation are children of God and those who don’t, aren’t.
There’s quite a few people who will say, “Lord, Lord, we cast out demons in your name,” and He will say “Depart from me…”
Be careful when resurrecting your “old man” to keep up with the world.
Our sin nature is our human nature.
Christ was the only man who didn’t have a sin nature.
Humanness will lead you down to the lake of fire.
Don’t end up with just a form of Godliness.
It’s not who you know that’s important, it’s who knows you.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 10:53:26   #
rumitoid
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
Our human nature is destroyed by the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.
If you choose not to die to self, then you’re not reborn.
Romans 7 explains how the battle goes, ultimately we have control of the outcome of the war.
Belief or unbelief, obedience or disobedience, life or death, ALL the same picture.
Those who accept the free gift of salvation are children of God and those who don’t, aren’t.
There’s quite a few people who will say, “Lord, Lord, we cast out demons in your name,” and He will say “Depart from me…”
Be careful when resurrecting your “old man” to keep up with the world.
Our sin nature is our human nature.
Christ was the only man who didn’t have a sin nature.
Humanness will lead you down to the lake of fire.
Don’t end up with just a form of Godliness.
It’s not who you know that’s important, it’s who knows you.
Our human nature is destroyed by the in dwelling o... (show quote)


Excellent counter-argument, and I can understand the reasons of your arguments. Unfortunately, I agree. It is a feature of what I could have added to enhance my thread. Dying to self is being resurrected as God's Original intention, which is not within our own power.

Reply
 
 
Feb 12, 2022 10:58:45   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
rumitoid wrote:
Excellent counter-argument, and I can understand the reasons of your arguments. Unfortunately, I agree. It is a feature of what I could have added to enhance my thread. Dying to self is being resurrected as God's Original intention, which is not within our own power.


Thank you, but my response was generated by the still small voice that shouted in my inner part, “NO THATS NOT COMPLETELY TRUE”. So I guess we’re on the same page now.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 13:01:44   #
rumitoid
 
Marty 2020 wrote:
Thank you, but my response was generated by the still small voice that shouted in my inner part, “NO THATS NOT COMPLETELY TRUE”. So I guess we’re on the same page now.


Okay. Sounds good.

Reply
Feb 13, 2022 04:30:59   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
rumitoid, not to worry, what you fully intended to say, it is likely you did, and God understood.

From my own experience in past years, in writing expositions on biblical truths (including inserting bits of historical backgrounds known to me from other sources), in what seemed a perfectly clear and cohesive manner; my son would read through, and tell me, "I believe as you moved from this paragraph to the following one, you omitted any reference to six books you've read and internalized.

To the reader, it will be a permanent bar they cannot cross - superfluous details unrelated to the text being covered.

I do not mean to insinuate you would ever have such a problem, but there is always the possibility that what you clearly wrote, I failed to comprehend.


rumitoid wrote:
Apparently I wasn't clear. I thoroughly agree with you...which I thought I made clear in my thread. It was never, ever a deification of self but of the power of the spirit and grace of God to transform us to his original intention of what he created, to become what we were meant to be by his design, to become what we are.

Reply
Feb 13, 2022 09:39:47   #
Marty 2020 Loc: Banana Republic of Kalifornia
 
Zemirah wrote:
rumitoid, not to worry, what you fully intended to say, it is likely you did, and God understood.

From my own experience in past years, in writing expositions on biblical truths (including inserting bits of historical backgrounds known to me from other sources), in what seemed a perfectly clear and cohesive manner; my son would read through, and tell me, "I believe as you moved from this paragraph to the following one, you omitted any reference to six books you've read and internalized.

To the reader, it will be a permanent bar they cannot cross - superfluous details unrelated to the text being covered.

I do not mean to insinuate you would ever have such a problem, but there is always the possibility that what you clearly wrote, I failed to comprehend.
rumitoid, not to worry, what you fully intended to... (show quote)

Clearly, the comprehension challenges are due to the writer. Not him personally, but every writer. If the teaching is ultimately from God (rhema), then comprehension will occur. If I tell you what I think I know, you might agree, you might not. If I tell you what the HS taught me, you WILL agree, unless of course, you don’t have ears to hear. It’s also dependent upon where you are in your walk with Christ.
I may not be ready for meat and only capable of milk.
Regardless of the teaching, always be like the Bereans. Checking to see if it is so.
Time to get off the soap box.

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