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Feb 8, 2022 22:02:59   #
rumitoid
 
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of self-improvement, is a lie. We are each a unique and exact expression of God, before Creation, to be drawn forth as God designed in his image and likeness. Nothing on earth can help. Whatever treasure that we may have in heaven has nothing to with our efforts, our Mansion is not purchased by our actions but by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace. Why strive for perfection when to "be still" is to know God.

Our Original sin is to create our own reality, to divide the kingdoms of Spirit and worldliness by a walled-off acre of self from Eternity.

Reply
Feb 9, 2022 05:17:15   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Hi rumitoid,

I hope you're well.

There are legions of spirits out there. I do hope your Capitalized "Spirit" references the Holy Spirit, who is God.

Isaiah 40:29
"He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak."

Isaiah 40:31
"but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."

1st Peter 4:11
"If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen."

God's grace is an attribute of God: a quality, character, or characteristic ascribed to someone or something.

Defining Grace

When Christians talk about God’s grace, they’re referring to the way God deals with all of the human race. God shows favor toward the unfavorable, acceptance to the unacceptable, kindness to the undeserving and blessings to the unworthy.

"He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and He makes the rain to fall upon the just and the unjust alike." Matthew 5:45

When theologians speak of God’s grace, they’re talking about His extension of unmerited (unearned) mercy and favor toward those who don’t deserve it, as no one can earn it.


rumitoid wrote:
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of self-improvement, is a lie. We are each a unique and exact expression of God, before Creation, to be drawn forth as God designed in his image and likeness. Nothing on earth can help. Whatever treasure that we may have in heaven has nothing to with our efforts, our Mansion is not purchased by our actions but by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace. Why strive for perfection when to "be still" is to know God.

Our Original sin is to create our own reality, to divide the kingdoms of Spirit and worldliness by a walled-off acre of self from Eternity.
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of ... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 9, 2022 13:03:36   #
rumitoid
 
Zemirah wrote:
Hi rumitoid,

I hope you're well.

There are legions of spirits out there. I do hope your Capitalized "Spirit" references the Holy Spirit, who is God.

Isaiah 40:29
"He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak."

Isaiah 40:31
"but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."

1st Peter 4:11
"If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen."

God's grace is an attribute of God: a quality, character, or characteristic ascribed to someone or something.

Defining Grace

When Christians talk about God’s grace, they’re referring to the way God deals with all of the human race. God shows favor toward the unfavorable, acceptance to the unacceptable, kindness to the undeserving and blessings to the unworthy.

"He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and He makes the rain to fall upon the just and the unjust alike." Matthew 5:45

When theologians speak of God’s grace, they’re talking about His extension of unmerited (unearned) mercy and favor toward those who don’t deserve it, as no one can earn it.
Hi rumitoid, br br I hope you're well. br br The... (show quote)


As usual--Brilliant! (Write a book.) Thank you, and that is how I see things. Christ knew us before the Creation.

Reply
 
 
Feb 12, 2022 07:14:40   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of self-improvement, is a lie. We are each a unique and exact expression of God, before Creation, to be drawn forth as God designed in his image and likeness. Nothing on earth can help. Whatever treasure that we may have in heaven has nothing to with our efforts, our Mansion is not purchased by our actions but by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace. Why strive for perfection when to "be still" is to know God.

Our Original sin is to create our own reality, to divide the kingdoms of Spirit and worldliness by a walled-off acre of self from Eternity.
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of ... (show quote)


You need to get away from the mystical and go back to the bible. Living for Christ is hard and requires the will and effort to resist temptation on a daily basis. There is no surrender unless one repents. That is just one danger of the hyper grace movement you espouse - they don’t mention repentance. The hyper grace movement isn’t biblical.

“Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us” Hebrews 12:1.

That takes effort and will. You are discarding much of the bible for your own theology.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 11:07:15   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
You need to get away from the mystical and go back to the bible. Living for Christ is hard and requires the will and effort to resist temptation on a daily basis. There is no surrender unless one repents. That is just one danger of the hyper grace movement you espouse - they don’t mention repentance. The hyper grace movement isn’t biblical.

“Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us” Hebrews 12:1.

That takes effort and will. You are discarding much of the bible for your own theology.
You need to get away from the mystical and go back... (show quote)


Wow, finally a scriptural rebuttal to one of my faith threads. I appreciate your opinion of what my thread said. I think you misunderstood what I said--and maybe not, just my beliefs, but I feel living for Christ is not hard, not a matter of will and effort. Our will and effort is to surrender to spirit and grace, which you seem to think of as mysticism. Yet it is thoroughly scriptural and the major of every epistle from Paul. Yet thank you for this challenging response. You could be right.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 15:56:59   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
Wow, finally a scriptural rebuttal to one of my faith threads. I appreciate your opinion of what my thread said. I think you misunderstood what I said--and maybe not, just my beliefs, but I feel living for Christ is not hard, not a matter of will and effort. Our will and effort is to surrender to spirit and grace, which you seem to think of as mysticism. Yet it is thoroughly scriptural and the major of every epistle from Paul. Yet thank you for this challenging response. You could be right.


I have given you scriptural references before - many times.

Truth is irrelevant to what we ‘feel’. The truth is revaled to us in scripture and no its not effortless. Every believer in the bible had it hard - especially Paul. Every single one.

If there is no will to live for Christ, no will to resist temptation, no will to repent, then one is not living for Christ.

Christ himself said it was hard -

Matthew 7:13–14
Jesus said, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

We are given trials for a reason - to build faith. Christianity is simple but hard. If its easy for you then something is wrong.

Reply
Feb 12, 2022 22:25:20   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
rumitoid wrote:
Wow, finally a scriptural rebuttal to one of my faith threads. I appreciate your opinion of what my thread said. I think you misunderstood what I said--and maybe not, just my beliefs, but I feel living for Christ is not hard, not a matter of will and effort. Our will and effort is to surrender to spirit and grace, which you seem to think of as mysticism. Yet it is thoroughly scriptural and the major of every epistle from Paul. Yet thank you for this challenging response. You could be right.


What is hyper-grace?
hyper-grace
audio
ANSWER

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

Jesus’ words to the seven churches in the book of Revelation strongly contradict the idea that Christians never need to repent. To the church at Ephesus, Jesus said, “Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place” (Revelation 2:4). Jesus rebukes five of the seven churches and demands repentance from them (Revelation 2:4, 6, 20; 3:3, 15–19). Far from believers being unaccountable for their sin, they must answer to Jesus for their disobedience (see also 2 Corinthians 5:10).

Preachers of hyper-grace doctrine discount the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments as irrelevant to New Testament believers. They even teach that Jesus’ words spoken before His resurrection are part of the Old Covenant and no longer applicable to born-again believers. But is this true?

In Mark 13:31, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” Before Jesus ascended into heaven, He promised that the Father would send the Holy Spirit who “will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you” (John 14:26). If Jesus’ words are no longer applicable to believers, why would we need to be reminded of them?

Hyper-grace teaching is a good example of mixing truth with error. An emphasis on the beauty and power of God’s grace is good, but some teachers are neglecting what Paul called the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). For example, it is true that Christians have been forgiven by God. But that doesn’t mean we never have to confess our sin. James 5:16 says, “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” If we are to confess our sins to each other, why would we not need to confess them to God, since every sin is ultimately a sin against God (Psalm 51:4)?

Also, 1 John 1:9 gives clear instruction to believers about confessing sin. It begins with the word if: “If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” This is a cause/effect statement implying that we cannot have the second without the first. As blood-bought children of God, we do not continue to confess our sin in order to be saved from hell. We confess and repent in order to reestablish an intimate relationship with our Father. We are “positionally righteous” but “practically sinful.”

To counter this argument, hyper-grace preachers deny that John’s letters were written to believers. However, 1 John 2:1 begins with this: “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.” John is clearly writing to believers whom he personally knew. He indicates that his believing friends may indeed sin, and that, when they do, they need to confess it.

Hyper-grace preachers also claim the Holy Spirit will never convict Christians of their sin. Mature Christians should recognize this fallacy right away. Every disciple of Christ has felt the overwhelming conviction of the Holy Spirit when he or she has sinned. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of Truth” (John 15:26). Truth, by its very definition, will not tolerate anything false. When the Spirit of Truth abides in a believing heart (1 Corinthians 6:19), He brings conviction about anything that is not truth.

In summary, much of what the hyper-grace preachers teach is valid. We are indeed saved by grace, not our works (Ephesians 2:8–9). And God’s grace is marvelous, great, and free (1 Timothy 1:14). However, hyper-grace teaching is out of proportion to the rest of Scripture. Any time one doctrine is emphasized to the exclusion of the rest, we fall into error because we fail to “correctly handle” the Word (2 Timothy 2:15).

Jesus was full of both “grace and truth” (John 1:14). The two are in delicate balance, and a tip to either side can result in a false gospel. We must always compare any new teaching with the “whole counsel of God” and learn to disregard anything that veers even slightly from the truth (1 John 4:1).

Reply
 
 
Feb 13, 2022 05:24:43   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
rumitoid, Christianity is a joyous faith.

My first thought upon looking at your title was that it echoed vaguely of pantheism - then I thought of a response I composed and posted earlier to another thread, almost exclusively using Scripture, and it is somewhat similar.

John 15:16-17: [Jesus said] "You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit - fruit that will remain - so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
This is My command to you: Love one another."

The Christian faith exists because Jesus Christ dwelt physically upon the earth, ca 4 B.C. to 30 A.D.. Followers of Jesus have had and do have different understandings about many things, but all true Christians agree that Jesus Christ is a revelation of God in the flesh.

Jesus' purpose (being fully God and fully man) on earth was to restore the broken relationship between God and man, by paying in full, through His own propitiatory (sacrificial) death, man's sin debt, for as a substitute - on behalf of the guilty, He satisfied the requirement of a holy, righteous God.

In order to bring anyone to acceptance of Christ, requires the conviction of sin and the necessity of repentance, which is the work of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied.
44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me."

Every Christian surely recognizes what an incredible bargain they have received in the free gift of salvation, for no one could ever achieve the perfection required to earn eternity in His presence.

The joy of our salvation begins immediately, provided by the accompanying gifts Jesus bestows upon us for our daily benefit, here, today, during our present life:

John 14:26-27 "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.
"Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Ephesians 2:9-10: "Not by works, so that no one can boast.
"For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

This is not a detriment, for God's works are to be done in His strength, never in our own.

"Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong." (2nd Corinthians 12:10)

"Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God;whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." (1st Peter 4:11)



rumitoid wrote:
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of self-improvement, is a lie. We are each a unique and exact expression of God, before Creation, to be drawn forth as God designed in his image and likeness. Nothing on earth can help. Whatever treasure that we may have in heaven has nothing to with our efforts, our Mansion is not purchased by our actions but by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace. Why strive for perfection when to "be still" is to know God.

Our Original sin is to create our own reality, to divide the kingdoms of Spirit and worldliness by a walled-off acre of self from Eternity.
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of ... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 13, 2022 09:47:51   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
rumitoid wrote:
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of self-improvement, is a lie. We are each a unique and exact expression of God, before Creation, to be drawn forth as God designed in his image and likeness. Nothing on earth can help. Whatever treasure that we may have in heaven has nothing to with our efforts, our Mansion is not purchased by our actions but by a complete surrender to Spirit and Grace. Why strive for perfection when to "be still" is to know God.

Our Original sin is to create our own reality, to divide the kingdoms of Spirit and worldliness by a walled-off acre of self from Eternity.
Striving for perfection, any practice or ideal of ... (show quote)


Rumi, I have reviewed your many threads this morning over the past few days. You have continually declared that the Bible’s message is about Love and about surrendering to Spirit and Grace. You often demand others to produce scriptural proof while you most often provide none of your own……This thread is the perfect example.

One more time, please use scriptural proof that your Love and surrendering to Spirit and Grace will save a person and not the explicit scriptures that are stated in the Gospel. If you are going to continue to create threads on your theology you must be able to actually defend it, IMO. I look forward to your explanation. I’m using Got Questions.org, as usual, because it saves me from typing with my one finger on this iPad!

What are the essentials of the gospel.

The word gospel means “good news,” which is the message of forgiveness for sin through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. It is essentially God’s rescue plan of redemption for those who will trust in His divine Son in order to be reconciled to a just and holy God. The essential content of this saving message is clearly laid out for us in the Bible.

In the apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he lays out the content of the gospel message, “Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).

In this passage, we see three essential elements of the gospel message. First, the phrase “died for our sins” is very important. As Romans 3:23 tells us, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” The reality of sin needs to be acknowledged by all who approach the throne of God for salvation. A sinner must acknowledge the hopelessness of his guilt before God in order for forgiveness to take place, and he must understand that the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Without this foundational truth, no gospel presentation is complete.

Second, the person and work of Christ are indispensable components of the gospel. Jesus is both God (Colossians 2:9) and man (John 1:14). Jesus lived the sinless life that we could never live (1 Peter 2:22), and, because of that, He is the only one who could die a substitutionary death for the sinner. Sin against an infinite God requires an infinite sacrifice. Therefore, either man, who is finite, must pay the penalty for an infinite length of time in hell, or the infinite Christ must pay for it once. Jesus went to the cross to pay the debt we owe to God for our sin, and those who are covered by His sacrifice will inherit the kingdom of God as sons of the king (John 1:12).

Third, the resurrection of Christ is an essential element of the gospel. The resurrection is the proof of the power of God. Only He who created life can resurrect it after death, only He can reverse the hideousness that is death itself, and only He can remove the sting that is death and the victory that is the grave’s (1 Corinthians 15:54–55). Further, unlike all other religions, Christianity alone possesses a Founder who transcends death and who promises that His followers will do the same. All other religions were founded by men and prophets whose end was the grave.

Finally, Christ offers His salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23), that can only be received by faith, apart from any works or merit on our part (Ephesians 2:8–9). As the apostle Paul tells us, the gospel is “the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile” (Romans 1:16). The same inspired author tells us, “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

These, then, are the essential elements of the gospel: the sin of all men, the death of Christ on the cross to pay for those sins, the resurrection of Christ to provide life everlasting for those who follow Him, and the offer of the free gift of salvation to all.

Reply
Feb 13, 2022 09:51:10   #
Rose42
 
TexaCan wrote:
Rumi, I have reviewed your many threads this morning over the past few days. You have continually declared that the Bible’s message is about Love and about surrendering to Spirit and Grace. You often demand others to produce scriptural proof while you most often provide none of your own……This thread is the perfect example.

One more time, please use scriptural proof that your Love and surrendering to Spirit and Grace will save a person and not the explicit scriptures that are stated in the Gospel. If you are going to continue to create threads on your theology you must be able to actually defend it, IMO. I look forward to your explanation. I’m using Got Questions.org, as usual, because it saves me from typing with my one finger on this iPad!

What are the essentials of the gospel.

The word gospel means “good news,” which is the message of forgiveness for sin through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. It is essentially God’s rescue plan of redemption for those who will trust in His divine Son in order to be reconciled to a just and holy God. The essential content of this saving message is clearly laid out for us in the Bible.

In the apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he lays out the content of the gospel message, “Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).

In this passage, we see three essential elements of the gospel message. First, the phrase “died for our sins” is very important. As Romans 3:23 tells us, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” The reality of sin needs to be acknowledged by all who approach the throne of God for salvation. A sinner must acknowledge the hopelessness of his guilt before God in order for forgiveness to take place, and he must understand that the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Without this foundational truth, no gospel presentation is complete.

Second, the person and work of Christ are indispensable components of the gospel. Jesus is both God (Colossians 2:9) and man (John 1:14). Jesus lived the sinless life that we could never live (1 Peter 2:22), and, because of that, He is the only one who could die a substitutionary death for the sinner. Sin against an infinite God requires an infinite sacrifice. Therefore, either man, who is finite, must pay the penalty for an infinite length of time in hell, or the infinite Christ must pay for it once. Jesus went to the cross to pay the debt we owe to God for our sin, and those who are covered by His sacrifice will inherit the kingdom of God as sons of the king (John 1:12).

Third, the resurrection of Christ is an essential element of the gospel. The resurrection is the proof of the power of God. Only He who created life can resurrect it after death, only He can reverse the hideousness that is death itself, and only He can remove the sting that is death and the victory that is the grave’s (1 Corinthians 15:54–55). Further, unlike all other religions, Christianity alone possesses a Founder who transcends death and who promises that His followers will do the same. All other religions were founded by men and prophets whose end was the grave.

Finally, Christ offers His salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23), that can only be received by faith, apart from any works or merit on our part (Ephesians 2:8–9). As the apostle Paul tells us, the gospel is “the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile” (Romans 1:16). The same inspired author tells us, “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

These, then, are the essential elements of the gospel: the sin of all men, the death of Christ on the cross to pay for those sins, the resurrection of Christ to provide life everlasting for those who follow Him, and the offer of the free gift of salvation to all.
Rumi, I have reviewed your many threads this morni... (show quote)


I would also like to see scripture that says repentance isn’t necessary and that being a Christian is effortless and easy.

Reply
Feb 13, 2022 16:27:03   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
I have given you scriptural references before - many times.

Truth is irrelevant to what we ‘feel’. The truth is revaled to us in scripture and no its not effortless. Every believer in the bible had it hard - especially Paul. Every single one.

If there is no will to live for Christ, no will to resist temptation, no will to repent, then one is not living for Christ.

Christ himself said it was hard -

Matthew 7:13–14
Jesus said, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

We are given trials for a reason - to build faith. Christianity is simple but hard. If its easy for you then something is wrong.
I have given you scriptural references before - ma... (show quote)


Whatever your beliefs are.

Reply
 
 
Feb 13, 2022 16:29:43   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
Whatever your beliefs are.


You just blew off what Christ told us. What is your justification?

Reply
Feb 13, 2022 16:35:35   #
rumitoid
 
TexaCan wrote:
What is hyper-grace?
hyper-grace
audio
ANSWER

The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

Jesus’ words to the seven churches in the book of Revelation strongly contradict the idea that Christians never need to repent. To the church at Ephesus, Jesus said, “Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place” (Revelation 2:4). Jesus rebukes five of the seven churches and demands repentance from them (Revelation 2:4, 6, 20; 3:3, 15–19). Far from believers being unaccountable for their sin, they must answer to Jesus for their disobedience (see also 2 Corinthians 5:10).

Preachers of hyper-grace doctrine discount the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments as irrelevant to New Testament believers. They even teach that Jesus’ words spoken before His resurrection are part of the Old Covenant and no longer applicable to born-again believers. But is this true?

In Mark 13:31, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” Before Jesus ascended into heaven, He promised that the Father would send the Holy Spirit who “will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you” (John 14:26). If Jesus’ words are no longer applicable to believers, why would we need to be reminded of them?

Hyper-grace teaching is a good example of mixing truth with error. An emphasis on the beauty and power of God’s grace is good, but some teachers are neglecting what Paul called the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). For example, it is true that Christians have been forgiven by God. But that doesn’t mean we never have to confess our sin. James 5:16 says, “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” If we are to confess our sins to each other, why would we not need to confess them to God, since every sin is ultimately a sin against God (Psalm 51:4)?

Also, 1 John 1:9 gives clear instruction to believers about confessing sin. It begins with the word if: “If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” This is a cause/effect statement implying that we cannot have the second without the first. As blood-bought children of God, we do not continue to confess our sin in order to be saved from hell. We confess and repent in order to reestablish an intimate relationship with our Father. We are “positionally righteous” but “practically sinful.”

To counter this argument, hyper-grace preachers deny that John’s letters were written to believers. However, 1 John 2:1 begins with this: “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.” John is clearly writing to believers whom he personally knew. He indicates that his believing friends may indeed sin, and that, when they do, they need to confess it.

Hyper-grace preachers also claim the Holy Spirit will never convict Christians of their sin. Mature Christians should recognize this fallacy right away. Every disciple of Christ has felt the overwhelming conviction of the Holy Spirit when he or she has sinned. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of Truth” (John 15:26). Truth, by its very definition, will not tolerate anything false. When the Spirit of Truth abides in a believing heart (1 Corinthians 6:19), He brings conviction about anything that is not truth.

In summary, much of what the hyper-grace preachers teach is valid. We are indeed saved by grace, not our works (Ephesians 2:8–9). And God’s grace is marvelous, great, and free (1 Timothy 1:14). However, hyper-grace teaching is out of proportion to the rest of Scripture. Any time one doctrine is emphasized to the exclusion of the rest, we fall into error because we fail to “correctly handle” the Word (2 Timothy 2:15).

Jesus was full of both “grace and truth” (John 1:14). The two are in delicate balance, and a tip to either side can result in a false gospel. We must always compare any new teaching with the “whole counsel of God” and learn to disregard anything that veers even slightly from the truth (1 John 4:1).
What is hyper-grace? br hyper-grace br audio br AN... (show quote)


Thank you for your comprehensive rebuttal. You made a number of leaps that jumped over what I said in my thread and what landed in the wilderness. Did I talk about hyper-grace? Your dispute over my thread is your wrongful assumption that I was talking about this odd thought of hyper-grace. But that was what you appear to have mistakenly saw in my thread. Or I did not express my beliefs clearly.

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Feb 13, 2022 16:42:33   #
rumitoid
 
Zemirah wrote:
rumitoid, Christianity is a joyous faith.

My first thought upon looking at your title was that it echoed vaguely of pantheism - then I thought of a response I composed and posted earlier to another thread, almost exclusively using Scripture, and it is somewhat similar.

John 15:16-17: [Jesus said] "You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit - fruit that will remain - so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
This is My command to you: Love one another."

The Christian faith exists because Jesus Christ dwelt physically upon the earth, ca 4 B.C. to 30 A.D.. Followers of Jesus have had and do have different understandings about many things, but all true Christians agree that Jesus Christ is a revelation of God in the flesh.

Jesus' purpose (being fully God and fully man) on earth was to restore the broken relationship between God and man, by paying in full, through His own propitiatory (sacrificial) death, man's sin debt, for as a substitute - on behalf of the guilty, He satisfied the requirement of a holy, righteous God.

In order to bring anyone to acceptance of Christ, requires the conviction of sin and the necessity of repentance, which is the work of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied.
44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me."

Every Christian surely recognizes what an incredible bargain they have received in the free gift of salvation, for no one could ever achieve the perfection required to earn eternity in His presence.

The joy of our salvation begins immediately, provided by the accompanying gifts Jesus bestows upon us for our daily benefit, here, today, during our present life:

John 14:26-27 "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.
"Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Ephesians 2:9-10: "Not by works, so that no one can boast.
"For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

This is not a detriment, for God's works are to be done in His strength, never in our own.

"Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong." (2nd Corinthians 12:10)

"Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God;whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." (1st Peter 4:11)
rumitoid, Christianity is a joyous faith. br br M... (show quote)


Beautiful, thank you. I will study this to see if I violated the scriptures you mentioned (though right now I am fairly confidrnt I did now) and because I need your insights.

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Feb 13, 2022 16:47:46   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
I would also like to see scripture that says repentance isn’t necessary and that being a Christian is effortless and easy.


Well, maybe you need that for yourself because I never, ever said such an absurd idea. That comment is a straw man.
A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted.

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