rumitoid

Below are the words of a Rabbi the "grafted on" need to hear: a different response to times of trouble.

Cut and paste from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davidmills/2014/09/days-of-awe-days-of-assurance/

Jonathan Sachs, former chief rabbi of the United Kingdom now teaching at NYU and Yeshiva, offers an answer to our fear in the high holy days, the ten days of repentance or awe from Rosh Hashanah (the new year) to Yom Kippur (the day of atonement).

"Which makes it all the more remarkable that — despite our total and profound belief in olam haba and techiyat ha-metim, life after death and the resurrection of the dead — there is almost nothing of this in most of the books of the Bible. It is an astonishing phenomenon. All of Kohelet’s cynicism and Job’s railing against injustice could have been answered in one sentence: “There is life after death.” Yet neither book explicitly says so.

"Against this horrific mindset the whole of Judaism is a protest. Justice and compassion have to be fought for in this life, not the next. Judaism is not directed to fear of death; it is directed to a far more dangerous fear: fear of life with all its pain and disappointment and unpredictability. It is fear of life, not fear of death, that has led people to create totalitarian states and fundamentalist religions. Fear of life is ultimately fear of freedom. That is why fear of life takes the form of an assault against freedom.

"Against that fear we say from the beginning of Elul to Sukkot that monumental psalm of David: “The Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom then shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life. Of whom then shall I be afraid?” On Rosh Hashanah we blow the shofar, the one mitzvah we fulfill by the breath of life itself without needing any words. On the first day of Rosh Hashanah, the “anniversary of creation,” we read in the Torah and Haftorah not about the birth of the universe but about the birth of Isaac to Sarah and of Samuel to Hannah as if to say one life is like a universe. One child is enough to show how vulnerable life is — a miracle to be protected and cherished. On Yom Kippur we wear the kitl, a shroud, as if to show that we are not afraid of death.

"Never before have I felt so strongly that the world needs us to live this message, the message of the Torah that life is holy, that death defiles and that terror in the name of God is a desecration of the name of God.

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

Let's get that last message through the heads of the Muslim imams. They say they are awaiting death. That we Christian and Jews of the book love life more then death. Last time I read my scriptures only the bad guys love death. So,the Muslims need to know this.

rumitoid

Amen!

robby1

Everybody on this planet are already dead, just get in line. Your turn will come. God said the flesh profits nothing.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Robby,

This must be a horrible way of seeing things. If you see yourself as dead, then what purpose do you serve? God did not create us for death. God gave, as in a gift, life. A dead body is corrupt, but a living person is blessed. Do not concern yourself with the end of your days, rather live each day for joy, love, and doing the right thing. If you celebrate your life, the life that God himself gave you, then with joy will you follow and keep his words.

rumitoid

"Live as if you are already dead." This is a Buddhist saying, but it is also what Christ asks of all that follow him. Dead to the world. The way of Christ is radically different than conventional wisdom and contrary to worldly values. The central problem with the vast amount of Christians (including myself) not being as Christ was in the world is their failure to die to this world, or to make themselves a "living sacrifice" throughout their day

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I am not a Buddhist, I am Jewish. I am alive in a world that God took the time to create, placed animals, water, air, all the things that make it beautiful. When we celebrate the new year that began on 13 Sep, we celebrate with joy. The Talmud tells us, "Atonement and joy go well together." The medieval Kabbalistic book the Zohar makes the same case, but even stronger: "Yom Ha-Kippurim, hu yom k'Purim." Yom Kippur is a day like Purim -- the silly, irreverent carnival dedicated to joy and playfulness. Even though this is a significant year that we have entered, and this is a time of fasting and praying, it is a time to realize the joy of life, the joy of being close to God. Not a time to cry or wring our hands and pity ourselves, but a time to show pity, a time to give, and a time of atonement. And time to be still, to plan to and actually do better than we have in the past. And that is the key, when we take the time to realize the mistakes then we can adjust ourselves. We do not need to continue in our past wickedness, but we have the ability to make better choices.

rumitoid

Wonderful and inspiring...and in complete accordance with living as if already dead.

But a Christian does not have "the ability to make better choices." That is the central difference between OT and NT.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Why did you change my quote? Yes, I noticed.

Christians get up in the morning like almost everyone else, right? Then why can you not ask to be forgiven, and believe that you are and then go about making better choices? To be a better person, more in the image of your god? Without forgiveness are you not saying that you have a cruel god, a god that will not understand or accept atonement? Atonement for all is prayer. Are you saying that prayer is only an OT thing?

Language lesson: Atonement. The setting at one, or reconciliation, of two estranged parties—t***slation used in the Authorized Version for "kapparah," "kippurim." The root ("kipper"), to make atonement, is explained by W. Robertson Smith ("Old Testament in the Jewish Church," i. 439), after the Syriac, as meaning "to wipe out." This is also the view taken by Zimmern ("Beiträge zur Kenntniss der Babylonischen Religion," 1899, p. 92), who claims Babylonian origin for both the term and the rite. Wellhausen ("Composition des Hextateuchs," p. 335) t***slates "kapparah" as if derived from "kapper" (to cover). The verb, however, seems to be a derivative from the noun "kofer" (ransom) meant originally "to atone."

You see the OT, rules of making offerings as as atonement. You are missing the point that when the 3d Temple fell, there is no more offerings. We pray and acknowledge our wrongness, we know that God forgives, so we walk away without the burdens of our old sins.


Well, to say that your statement makes it easy to understand why you always seem so sad. I would too if I could not make peace with God, to know that I can beg for his forgiveness and receive it. But, I can not continue making the same mistakes or sin.

rumitoid

1) I did not change your quote.
2) "Then why can you not ask to be forgiven, and believe that you are and then go about making better choices": one has nothing to do with the other.
3) "Are you saying that prayer is only an OT thing?" how did you get that wild notion?
4) "You see the OT, rules of making offerings as as atonement. You are missing the point that when the 3d Temple fell, there is no more offerings."
Neither my point nor part of my point or for that matter missing it.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I prepared a response to you, but I have elected not to post it. You are trying to provoke me to see if I will respond to you unkindly. It will not happen. This is your post and thread, I will leave it now. I do not want to cause you to fail in your promise to remain thoughtful of your comments.

rumitoid

Making by innuendo that my post is somehow "provoking you" to respond unkindly is both absurd and a cached attack on me. This is a priceless insult and so well done: "I do not want to cause you to fail in your promise to remain thoughtful of your comments." My comments were thoughtful, succinct and enumerated:
'1) I did not change your quote.
2) "Then why can you not ask to be forgiven, and believe that you are and then go about making better choices": one has nothing to do with the other.
3) "Are you saying that prayer is only an OT thing?" how did you get that wild notion?
4) "You see the OT, rules of making offerings as as atonement. You are missing the point that when the 3d Temple fell, there is no more offerings."
Never was part of my point or even tangentially part of my point.'

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

This entire exchange has nothing to do with the thread. I responded to Robby 1. I had no intention of engaging you, I simply replied to Robby 1. I gave my point of view to him, and expected him to respond if they had more to add.

He sees all humans as dead. I wanted to give him another view. I did want to give you a different view or food for thought, only the person that saw humans as dead. You invited yourself into the conversation. I responded to you. Yes, I should have known better, but I made the mistake of responding to your statements.

If you wish to think that I was insulting, then fine. Think it. But, remember just because you think something is true, does not make it true. And remember, you entered into the conversation......

Now for your questions or points or wh**ever you are calling them:

You quoted me as follows: " We do not need to continue in our past wickedness, but we have he tyranny emerging out of so-called progressive programs pushed by the Left”

What I wrote was: “We do not need to continue in our past wickedness, but we have the ability to make better choices.”

Look at them, they are back to back. So, yes you changed my words.

We are given free will by God, therefore we can choose to act wrongly, say harsh things, steal, c***t, use God’s name when swearing, and the list goes on. We can choose to do right.

I responded to your comment, “But a Christian does not have "the ability to make better choices." That is the central difference between OT and NT”

I clearly said that “Atonement for all is prayer. Are you saying that prayer is only an OT thing?”

Sacrifice is mentioned as atonement in the OT, I simply wanted you to know that this has not been available after the fall of the Temple. It was replaced with prayer.

Are you now done with this? It is silly, immature, a waste of time and energy and I am done with it.

Good night

robby1

Once you learn that God has saved you then you realize that life in eternity is forever, and life on earth comes to an end in the flesh. When the flesh dies the spirit goes to be with God. The Bible says absent from the body, present with the Lord. Paul said He wanted to put off the earthly tent and put on the Heavenly tent. This life is temporary and it will die but the heavenly life is forever. So I look at this life and see it as a temporary life. I don't mean that I wish that I was dead but I look for eternal life where there is no death.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Robby,

I have always known God, the one true God. I do not really think too much about the world to come. I live each day with great joy because I am thankful to my God for his blessings and mercy. I do not have a fear of death, it is just not important to me. I wake in the mornings with a prayer of thanks, I stop often throughout my day to give thanks for simple things and not just the large blessings. I can see His work in all things. He has a plan, of that I am sure. At night, I go to sleep without fear and again with a prayer of thanks. If it is His will, I will awaken again in the beauty of the world God designed and spoke into being. Eternity does not interest me, for what will come will come.

I have some thoughts about the individual you consider the 13th Apostle and his traveling companion Luke. He was quite the one man band.