Zyro0713

The bible does not say anything to regard my believing that there will be an event, where people will simply disappear and never be seen or heard from again.

I do not accept the process of this "rapture" idea, because as I have heard it explained; it just plain and simple seems to be unintelligent.

People disappearing instantly. Vehicles crashing, babies being dropped, all sorts of unexplained damage, due to God, protecting some, and forgetting to care about the consequences. Ridiculous!

A foolish concept, based upon a misinterpretation of the scriptures; and there are many who accept this stupidity as being valid.

Sorry; I am not putting anyone down: I'm simply unwilling to agree with this definition of the word. Beware of those who will mislead you, in the name of God!
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

And I have never believed in a zebra jack ass! Until I saw your avatar. LOL

Loki Loc: Georgia

I am not taking a side in this one, but here is something you may find interesting. It was taken from the following link:

http://www.bible.ca/d-rapture.htm








Will there be a Rapture ???

It is common today to see bumper stickers with slogans such as: "In case of Rapture this car will be unoccupied." The term Rapture stands for the so-called coming of a millennial reign of Christ on earth. The word Rapture comes from the Latin, RAPARE, which means to "take away" or "snatch out." theory that is directly associated with It is taught by many who endorse this theory that Christ at his second coming will silently remove from this world the righteous - and this just before a terrible tribulation shall take place on the earth. This alarmist doctrine portrays quite a drama. Families will be shocked by the strange disappearance of a mother, father, or child. Driverless cars will collide in streets. A man and wife are in bed; she hears a noise, turns her head, and he is gone. Planes crash with no pilots found. The theorist continues by stating that the tribulation on earth will last for seven years during which time the Lord will pour out His wrath upon all those who have rejected Him. At the end of the tribulation, they say, the Lord will return to the earth with ten thousand of His saints and a great battle will be fought. They add that Christ and His army will be victorious and will then execute judgement upon the ungodly. Then, according to the theory, the Lord will usher in His Kingdom, an earthly reign of Christ on earth which shall last for 1,000 years.

Click to View
This tract says:
"very likely going to happen in the very near future" Ron Reese


The conclusion of this suggested millennium will pose another great battle. This is supposed to involve a last-ditch effort of evil against good - to no avail, of course. Then they affirm that a second resurrection will-take place; and all who remain from the time of Adam will be raised and shall receive their just desserts. Let us see what the Bible says regarding the t***h of our Lord's return. (We do invite you to write down the following references.)

First, the word Rapture is not even to be found in the Bible; Nor is the doctrine taught there.

Secondly, the Lord's return will not be. secretive or silent. Revelation 1:7 states that, "every eye shall see him', 1 Thessalonians 4:16, says that His coming will be heralded with, "a shout'. with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God".

Thirdly, the "tribulation" often referred to is based upon an erroneous interpretation of Matthew 24. This "tribulation' was associated with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 according to the first question the Lord answered in Matthew 24:1-3. That "tribulation" did in fact come before that generation passed, Matthew 24:34.

Fourthly, according to the Bible there is but one resurrection and that will include both the good and evil., John 5:28-29, states, "all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth".

Fifthly, based upon the Bible, Christ's Kingdom is not future. It has already been in existence for nearly 2000 years and it is a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly one. Jesus stated it in John 18:336 "My kingdom is not of this world." Christ promised Peter in Matthew 16:18-19-that he could open the doors of the kingdom, and this the apostle exercised in Acts 2:38-47. John, the apostle, stated in Revelation 1:9 that he was "in the Kingdom". Now all of these books were written in the First Century and the kingdom was spoken of as existing then. Mark 9:1 is a passage that definitely puts the beginning of the kingdom in that generation.

Lastly, the idea of a thousand year reign of Christ on earth is a gross distortion of Revelation 20:1-7. This is a highly figurative context within a very symbolic book. The reign viewed in Revelation 20 is not an "earthly" reign of the Lord at all. It is a spiritual reign with victorious saints (Revelation 20:4). In Revelation 6:9-11 these martyred souls were, "underneath the altar", crying for vindication; in Chapter 20, however, they were on, "thrones reigning with their Lord." This was a prophetic indication that Christianity would be triumphant over its enemies. The 1,000 years is likely a symbol of the completeness of that victory. The number 1,000 is used more than 20 times in the book of Revelation, but not in a literal sense. The whole concept of the so-called Rapture contradicts scores of Bible passages of the clearest import.

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

It Doesn't Come Until After The Tribulation
It Refers Only To Those That Have Died Or Suffered
For Not Taking The Anti-Christ's Mark

Right Before The Heavenly Armada Torches The Armies Of The Anti-Christ To A Cinder

There Are References On YouTube
That Will Walk You Through Either View You May Follow
Have A Bible And Use The Pause Icon

'End Of Tribulation' Makes More Sense Of The Prophecies To Me
On The Upside, This Interpretation Also Places The Worst Of The Prophecies In The Middle-East On The Empire Of The Anti-Christ

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I am going to provide you and others who are interested the history and the scripture regarding the Rapture. It is not intended to persuade anyone from their beliefs, but is founded in research done on the subject.

I am going to give you some food for thought. It is not intended to persuade you to either believe or not believe in the rapture, it is simply food for thought. No, I will not go into t***slations, this is intended to give you food for thought only. I do a lot of reading, and in particular on religions. I found a book, The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin by Dave MacPherson that shines some light on this relatively modern day thinking, allow me to share some of the thoughts with you.

In the middle 1820’s a religious environment began to be established among a few Christians in London, England which proved to be the catalyst from which the doctrine of the Rapture emerged. Expectations of the soon coming of our Lord were being voiced. This was no new thing, but what was unusual was the teaching by a Presbyterian minister named Edward Irving that there had to be a restoration of the spiritual gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians chapters 12–14 just before Christ’s Second Advent. To Irving, the time had come for those spiritual manifestations to occur. Among the expected gifts was the renewal of speaking in tongues and of prophetic utterances motivated by the spirit.

Irving is often referred to as “the father of modern Pentecostalism” began to propagate his beliefs. His oratorical sk**ls and enthusiasm caused his congregation in London to grow. Then a number of people began to experience the “gifts.” Once this happened, opposition from the organized churches set in. It resulted in Irving’s dismissal from the Presbyterian Church in 1832. His group established themselves as the Catholic Apostolic Church and continued the teachings of Irving. These events were the beginnings of what some call present day Pentecostalism.

What does this have to do with the origin of the Rapture doctrine? Look at what happened in the year 1830 — two years before Irving’s dismissal from the Presbyterian Church. In that year a revival of the “gifts” began to be manifested among some people living in the lowlands of Scotland. They experienced what they called the outpouring of the Spirit. It was accompanied with speak­ing in “tongues” and other charismatic phenomena. Irving preached that these things must occur and now they were.

On one particular evening, the power of the Holy Spirit was said to have rested on a Miss Margaret Macdonald while she was ill at home. She was dangerously sick and thought she was dying. In spite of this, or perhaps because, she is supposed to have come under the “power” of the spirit. For hours she experienced manifestations of “mingled prophecy and vision.”

The message she received during this prophetic vision convinced her that Christ was going to appear in two stages at His Second Advent, and not a single occasion as most all people formerly believed. The spirit emanation revealed that Christ would first come in glory to those who look for Him and again later in a final stage when every eye would see Him. This visionary experience of Miss Macdonald represented the prime source of the modern Rapture doctrine as the historical evidence compiled by Mr. MacPherson reveals.

The Influence of John Darby

Many people have thought that John Darby, the founder of the Plymouth Brethren, was the originator of the Rapture doctrine. This is not the case. Darby was a brilliant theologian with outstanding scholarly abilities. Even those who disagreed with his teachings admit that he, and many associated with him, helped cause a revival in biblical learning throughout the evangelical world which has perpetuated down to the present day. All who love biblical research ought to be thankful for what Darby and especially his associates accomplished for biblical scholarship. These early men helped pave the way particularly for the renewal of modern lexical studies in the biblical languages.

This renewal of language studies was not the only thing they produced. The doctrine of “dispensationalism” was also a teaching they brought to the attention of the Protestant world. And then, there was this new doctrine termed the “Rapture.” While many Christians long thought the Rapture doctrine originated with John Darby, it is now known that this was not true. Darby did popularize it. Scofield and others took it over. But Darby provided the intellectual mantle that helped make it respectable. Many of those in the evangelical sphere of Christianity today are so certain of its veracity that it is accepted as the absolute t***h of God. The fact is, however, John Darby received the knowledge of the doctrine from someone else. His source was Margaret Macdonald.

The studies of Mr. MacPherson show that her sickness during which she received her visions and revelations occurred sometime between February 1 and April 14, 1830. By late spring and early summer of 1830, her belief in the two phases of Christ’s coming was mentioned in praise and prayer meetings in several towns of western Scotland. In these meetings some people were speaking in “tongues” and other charismatic occurrences were in evidence. Modern “Pentecostalism” had its birth.

These extraordinary and strange events so attracted John Darby that he made a trip to the area to witness what was going on. Though he did not approve of the ecstatic episodes that he witnessed, it is nonetheless significant that Darby, after returning from Scotland, began to teach that Christ’s Advent would occur in two phases. MacPherson shows good evidence that Darby even visited Miss Macdonald in her home. There can hardly be any doubt that the visions and spiritual experiences of Miss Macdonald are the source of the modern doctrine. But belief in such paranormal experiences is dangerous, especially when they are contrary to scriptural teachings.

Now then, that is the history of how this, now widely accepted in some churches, belief was born. I will give you some scriptures for your reading enjoyment. Now mind you, I do not think that isolating a single verse is wise, I strongly believe that people should study the entire text to better their understanding.

Matthew 24 (37-46)
37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark
Here we are told that before Christ returns, it will be just like in the days of Noe. Then we are given a general description of what was happening at that time. There is a lot more to this than what is actually said. To understand this completely, we must go to Genesis and find out exactly what was happening at that time.

Genesis 6
1) And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2) That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Here is the marrying that was spoken of by Jesus in the book of Matthew. I want you to notice how these sons of God are contrasted with men. In this verse, the Hebrew word that is t***slated God, is Elohim. This title is always used of God in relation to creation or as the creator. You can contrast this with God in verse 5 in which it is Jehovah. Jehovah is always used of God in terms of His covenant relationship with man. This will be relevant after we read the next two verses.
3) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
We see here, that when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, giants were born in the earth. Now this is not normal. So I think it is fair to say, these sons of God are somehow different, than the men that daughters were born unto. The title, sons of God, or son of God (Elohim), is only used of Adam (Luke 3:38), who God created directly and of angels (Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7), that is, up until the time of Christ, through which we become a new creature and all things are of God (2 Cor.5:17). The word giants in the Hebrew dictionary is nephilim. It means fallen ones.
So we have here, a group referred to as the Sons of God, who are obviously given this title to set them apart from men, and we know from scripture that God, (Elohim), is only used as a title for God when he is the direct creator of an entity, as in angels or Adam. From this, we have to assume, God created these entities directly. Since there is only one record of God creating a man directly, Adam, then we have to assume these are angels. When we look again at the word nephilim, (fallen ones), it's no great stretch to draw the conclusion that these are fallen angels. This may seem outrageous but scripture further documents these assumptions. The book of Jude will tell us about these fallen angels and their sin with the daughters of men.

Jude
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
These two verses tell us about the angels leaving their habitation and compares their sin to that of Sodom and Gomorrah. It would be no great leap to give these the title "Fallen Angels", since they disobeyed God and would have fallen out of His Grace. It is also evident from verse 7, that their sin was that of fornication. Angels are not flesh, they are spirits, taking the daughters of men for wives, would be giving themselves over to strange flesh. This unnatural act would have caused an unnatural result, giants were born in the earth.. You can also read about the angels sin in 2 Peter chapter 2 (1-5).
The point of all of this, is that, this is what was happening during Noah's time, and Matthew tells us, it will happen this very same way again. These angels will be returning to the earth to take wives of the daughter's of men. To just further this point and give a second witness that this is true, let's go to 1 Corinthians Chapter 11.
4) Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5) But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Here we are told it would be a dishonor for a woman to pray or prophesy with her head uncovered. Why? Verse 10 holds the answer.
10) For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
The power the woman should have over her head is Christ. Why, because of the angels, they will be coming back! God sent the flood in Noah's time to destroy these unnatural nephilim. Noah was spared, because he was upright and his generations were perfect (Gen. 6:9). Noah's family had not mixed with the fallen angels or the giants. This mixing with the angels and their offspring was all plotted by Satan himself to corrupt the seed line in which Christ was to come. If he could have accomplished this God's word would have failed.
Now that we have determined the events that were happening to Noah, and will happen at the time of the end, we can establish a timeline. The angels do not appear on the earth until the sixth seal. Let's go read about that in Revelation chapter 6.

Revelation 6:12-13
12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Angels are often referred to as stars in the Bible, here are just a few examples: (Rev. 1:20, Rev. 9:1, Dan. 8:10). Our goal here, is to see when the one will be taken and the one will be left behind. Let's go back to Matthew for a moment.
37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Notice here, that when one is taken and one is left, the marrying has already began. We can determine that the angels are already here taking the daughters of men as wives. We just read in the book of Revelation, that the angels are not here until the sixth seal. There is only one seal that has not been opened. If "Left Behind" is describing a rapture, then it is not a pre-trib rapture. The tribulation of antichrist has already began at this point. Let's read on and see if we can determine who is left behind, and who is taken.
Matthew 24
39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
I just want you to ask yourself one simple question about this verse. In the time of Noe, who was taken in the flood? Was it Noe, who was upright and just? No, it was those who weren't watching, those who didn't believe they had anything to watch for or to prepare for. Those who are taken are taken in a flood of lies and deception. This will be the flood of the end times and we can read about it in Daniel chapter 11.
20) Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
21) And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22) And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23) And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
Notice this vile person shall become strong with a small people. This is the little horn of Daniel 8:9, which is the antichrist. Satan doesn't come in like most people think, but rather he comes in peacefully and obtains the kingdom through flattery and deception. Words are his weapons, along with a few miracles he has the power to perform. He is very convincing and notice, "with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown". Just like in the days of Noe, only this flood comes out of the mouth of the serpent. We can read about that in Revelation 12:15.
15) And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Here we see this flood of lies and deception and it comes right out of his mouth. It's amazing how many e-mails we have received were people say there is no way a Christian could be deceived by Satan. If he can obtain rule over the whole world through his deception and flattery, it wouldn't be too smart to underestimate his ability to deceive you or me. We need to take this seriously and prepare ourselves.
44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Many will think Christ is already here because they have been taught He comes first. The antichrist comes first and he will be playing the role of Christ, his mission, to deceive you and me. See that this doesn't happen, let go of fables and find the t***h.
45) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Notice the faithful and wise servant is found here on earth taking care of his household. He wasn't taken away in a rapture. We need to prepare ourselves and our family with the spiritual meat of the word. Let's just suppose for a moment, that this is talking about people who missed the rapture. How could they be called faithful and wise, as they are in verse 45, if the rapture were true?

rumitoid

rumitoid

Outstanding.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Gracias. I have no axe to grind in this discussion, no point to prove, I just wanted to insert some balance. I created a bit of a stir with Christmas/Mithra, and Easter/Ishtar, and the Sunday Sabbath. I have no quarrel with Christians, I just point out that so many of the original beliefs have been corrupted. If I believed in a Devil, I imagine he would be overjoyed at the number of Christians fervently defending non-Biblical doctrine.

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Prophecy From Daniel To Revelation Says That's Exactly Lucifer's Goal
That's Why Western Interpretations Of The End Times
Painted Catholicism As Mystery Babylon

Of Course, If You Can Be Made To Believe He Doesn't Exist
His Work Is Done

rumitoid

Just something of a footnote to the two fine posts by Loki and ginnyt.

1800 years of Church writings and not a single mention of the Rapture until a book published in 1788, written by Morgan Edwards, a Baptist leader. The Early Church Fathers, who wrote about all the major doctrines of the apostles, never mention the Rapture. Consider that the first printing of the Bible was in 1456 and it became a best seller. All those many diverse minds and hearts now able to read and study the bible for 330 years and not a single mention of the Rapture.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Good point.

Caboose Loc: South Carolina

God also elected thru the foolishness of preaching to save the
souls of men. You probably dont believe that either.

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

The sixth seal needs opening then the "taking away" will begin. In my opinion. All "christians" need to be ready for any time. Period. 😇

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

Ginnyt does it again!!! :thumbup:

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Thank you, I should say now that I did borrow some of the information for another person years ago and I am sorry, but I do not see in my notes to whom that credit belongs. I should have taken more time and made sure that credit was given to that individual. I will keep searching, when I find it I will amend my post with their reference.